Army Soldier refuses to salute flag

#176
#176
CountVolcula said:
I just take offense to any disrespect for the flag

I never served but I have friends and a father who did and I wouldn't disrespect their service by being disrespectful to our flag, even if it put me out or had to do it everyday

Afterall, that flag flies over the greatest country in the world.
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China? Russia?
 
#177
#177
rocktopper16 said:
It's a honor to wear that uniform, not a gimme. People died for that flag to be flown. Yah. VMB, your right people duck and hide from it all the time & now it's finally being made public & it's about damn time. Our military has got soft as ****! If she was in the army not even 20 years ago she would be laying in medroom unconscious. She is a disgrace to our country. Mock me all you want. That flag has meaning. That flag is a symbol to this nation. We don't just salute the flag we salute out brothers in arms who died protecting it.

She should get dishonerbly discharged & through out processing her duty should be to raise that flag every day and lower it every night! While singing the anthem! My jimmies are severely rustled!
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What does the flag symbolize?
 
#178
#178
volfanbill said:
just for clarity... By run and duck, I simply mean that there are two preliminary calls before Retreat actually starts. One fifteen minutes prior and one 5 minutes prior. By run and duck, I mean most people that hear the 5 minute call, make sure to get themselves inside. Perhaps that has caused mass confusion. I've seen plenty of people ignore the flag, but I've never seen one run after retreat sounded.
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But really, the end result is the same. Whether they actually do run & duck or strategically stay indoors beforehand, your original point is the same and correct. It is a common occurrence.
 
#182
#182
Rasputin_Vol said:
But really, the end result is the same. Whether they actually do run & duck or strategically stay indoors beforehand, your original point is the same and correct. It is a common occurrence.
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Absolutely, and I've talked to those that have been in for thirty years. Not only do they say it has always been a common occurrence, I've seen them do it. The only thing here is she made a social media post about it. The old guard can pretend they were role model, by the book Soldiers if it gives them warm and fuzzy feelings inside, but I choose to be realistic. Where's the leadership failure in this whole thing? Instead of teaching her, everyone wants her crucified.
 
#187
#187
BearCat204 said:
There's a huge difference to making sure you're not outside during colors and ducking into a building when it starts.
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Not much of a difference. The outcome and intents are the same. Outside of posting this event on social media, which we all agree was a disaster, both parties are dodging.
 
#190
#190
BearCat204 said:
There's a huge difference to making sure you're not outside during colors and ducking into a building when it starts.
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This, if you get into the barracks at 1657 power to you. But if you're outside when the music starts, you do the right thing.
 
#191
#191
Toujours Pret said:
This, if you get into the barracks at 1657 power to you. But if you're outside when the music starts, you do the right thing.
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This times a million. It's call duty and there are certain obligations when you are doing your duty. Rendering respect and abiding by customs and courtesies is one if those obligations.
 
#192
#192
volfanbill said:
Absolutely, and I've talked to those that have been in for thirty years. Not only do they say it has always been a common occurrence, I've seen them do it. The only thing here is she made a social media post about it. The old guard can pretend they were role model, by the book Soldiers if it gives them warm and fuzzy feelings inside, but I choose to be realistic. Where's the leadership failure in this whole thing? Instead of teaching her, everyone wants her crucified.
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I've lived on/near Army bases my entire life and it is a fact that everyone ducks or avoids retreat occasionally. Sometimes they are tired, stressed, apathetic or absent-minded. They are human. This soldier was stupid in posting the pic and needs a bit of corrective counseling, that is all. But, for those of you who want her discharged for ths, take a look around the next time you see a flag go by during a parade, or the next time the national anthem is played. Check out how many citizens don't bother to stand or put their hand over their heart. Heck, many won't bother to stop talking or show the least amount of respect. Respect for the flag is only a minor civic duty, we can't get more than 40% of citizens to vote. This soldier took an oath and for all we know she is upholding her duty. Not sure we can say the rest of the citizenry is upholding theirs.
 
#193
#193
SergeantVol said:
This times a million. It's call duty and there are certain obligations when you are doing your duty. Rendering respect and abiding by customs and courtesies is one if those obligations.
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But there is nothing, absolutely nothing, to prove she ran in her car at the sound of retreat. And again, there is no law here at Bragg about getting out of your car. There wasn't one at Ft Meade. Ft Jackson had it, but I can't speak for others. No one can prove she was supposed to get out of her car to stand at attention and salute.
 
#194
#194
volfanbill said:
But there is nothing, absolutely nothing, to prove she ran in her car at the sound of retreat. And again, there is no law here at Bragg about getting out of your car. There wasn't one at Ft Meade. Ft Jackson had it, but I can't speak for others. No one can prove she was supposed to get out of her car to stand at attention and salute.
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Let's get down to brass tacks shall we?

Do you believe the fact she implied on social media she WAS avoiding the retreat ceremony is prejudicial to the good order and discipline of the Armed Forces? As well as putting the military in a potential bad light by being so public about it?
 
#195
#195
Grand Vol said:
Let's get down to brass tacks shall we?

Do you believe the fact she implied on social media she WAS avoiding the retreat ceremony is prejudicial to the good order and discipline of the Armed Forces? As well as putting the military in a potential bad light by being so public about it?
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Really, you can't read huh? I've already stated, MULTIPLE times she was wrong and should be punished. But to act like she needs to be dishonorably discharged or stoned is beyond ludicrous.
 
#196
#196
volfanbill said:
Really, you can't read huh? I've already stated, MULTIPLE times she was wrong and should be punished. But to act like she needs to be dishonorably discharged or stoned is beyond ludicrous.
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Obviously you can't read yourself because I never implied or suggested she should be discharged.
 
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#197
#197
YorkVol said:
I've lived on/near Army bases my entire life and it is a fact that everyone ducks or avoids retreat occasionally. Sometimes they are tired, stressed, apathetic or absent-minded. They are human. This soldier was stupid in posting the pic and needs a bit of corrective counseling, that is all. But, for those of you who want her discharged for ths, take a look around the next time you see a flag go by during a parade, or the next time the national anthem is played. Check out how many citizens don't bother to stand or put their hand over their heart. Heck, many won't bother to stop talking or show the least amount of respect. Respect for the flag is only a minor civic duty, we can't get more than 40% of citizens to vote. This soldier took an oath and for all we know she is upholding her duty. Not sure we can say the rest of the citizenry is upholding theirs.
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It pisses me off when I see people not take their hat off prior to the start of a sporting event(to include the runs I do)
 
#198
#198
Grand Vol said:
Obviously you can't read yourself because I never implied or suggested she should be discharged.
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no, you just chose to criticize me and tell me I'm unfit for service because I said this doesn't warrant a stoning or dishonorable discharge.
 
#199
#199
volfanbill said:
no, you just chose to criticize me and tell me I'm unfit for service because I said this doesn't warrant a stoning or dishonorable discharge.
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Let's see...

You attacked my integrity by saying I was untruthful about never doing it and your post #43 implied what she did wasn't a big deal since "it's just a motion."

So yes, I still hold the opinion you probably would fail to enforce basic standards. Now, if I'm wrong stud, come back in a few years and let me know.
 
#200
#200
Grand Vol said:
Let's see...

You attacked my integrity by saying I was untruthful about never doing it and your post #43 implied what she did wasn't a big deal since "it's just a motion."

So yes, I still hold the opinion you probably would fail to enforce basic standards. Now, if I'm wrong stud, come back in a few years and let me know.
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A. Don't call me stud. B. I don't have to report to you. Nor will I EVER. I have enough Soldiers, NCOs and even Officers that tell me, my leadership and the higher ups within my battalion that I have set standards and been a perfect example of giving my all. Being in the Armed Forces isn't about saluting a flag at every possible chance, it's about protecting, leading, guiding and being there when no one else wants to be. Doing things no one else wants to do. So no, I'm not going to throw a Soldier to the curb or stone her just because she chose to sit in her car when Retreat and Colors played. If that makes me a bad leader, then I don't want to be in your Armed Forces. I'm glad I'm in it now instead of then.
 
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