Atlanta Braves II

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#6,876
#6,876
Vercingetorix said:
There's "chemistry," and then there's "not being such a giant ass hole that everybody in the locker room detests you and it's causing a ton of dissension on the team." Sometimes a player just flat-out has to go. It's impossible for a fan just watching the games on TV to judge when that threshold has been crossed, but clearly Escobar did.
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Bobby Cox handled Andruw freakin Jones for 10+ years. If he said "Esco has to go" then Esco had to go. I'll side with Bobby when it comes to giving up on a player or not.
 
#6,877
#6,877
Escobar's road numbers: .261/.322/.349/.670 OPS

Color me not impressed
 
#6,878
#6,878
zjcvols said:
Bobby Cox handled Andruw freakin Jones for 10+ years. If he said "Esco has to go" then Esco had to go. I'll side with Bobby when it comes to giving up on a player or not.
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Siding with Bobby Cox is pretty damning. What's wrong with Andruw? Never a problem in the clubhouse.
 
#6,880
#6,880
zjcvols said:
Escobar's road numbers: .261/.322/.349/.670 OPS

Color me not impressed
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He was much better than Gonzalez last year, no doubt, but not enough better for it to be worth having a prodigious jackass in the locker room causing problems all year. The anecdote about Gonzalez getting a standing O after the trade tells you all you need to know.

For a player who hits like Hanley Ramirez, you can grit your teeth and suck it up. Not for some midlevel fungible guy like Escobar. If he's an important part of your offense, then your offense sucks.
 
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#6,881
#6,881
TBrown said:
Siding with Bobby Cox is pretty damning. What's wrong with Andruw? Never a problem in the clubhouse.
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He wasn't really a huge problem in the clubhouse, but there is no doubt motivation/focus was an issue throughout his career.
 
#6,882
#6,882
Vercingetorix said:
There's "chemistry," and then there's "not being such a giant ass hole that everybody in the locker room detests you and it's causing a ton of dissension on the team." Sometimes a player just flat-out has to go. It's impossible for a fan just watching the games on TV to judge when that threshold has been crossed, but clearly Escobar did.
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I think the whole situation was completely blown out of proportion by the media, douchebag DOB in particular. Bobby Cox was the driving force behind the trade. Chipper Jones didn't like him. From all accounts, he didn't talk enough (if he even spoke at all) for everyone in the clubhouse to detest him.

It's in the past and you and I have beat it to death in this thread already, but for people to heap praise on and act like alex gonzalez was anything better than a waste of space is ludicrous.
 
#6,883
#6,883
TBrown said:
I think the whole situation was completely blown out of proportion by the media, douchebag DOB in particular. Bobby Cox was the driving force behind the trade. Chipper Jones didn't like him. From all accounts, he didn't talk enough (if he even spoke at all) for everyone in the clubhouse to detest him.

It's in the past and you and I have beat it to death in this thread already, but for people to heap praise on and act like alex gonzalez was anything better than a waste of space is ludicrous.
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I just don't think there's any point to fans calling that trade a mistake when we don't have any access to the actual information that caused the Braves to dump Escobar. All we can see are the numbers, and numbers-wise, it certainly didn't improve the team. But Escobar wasn't traded because of numbers.

Strictly from a fan's perspective, I hated watching Escobar play, I was delighted when they traded him, and I haven't missed him once regardless of how bad Gonzalez has been. My son finally started watching baseball with me last year, and I didn't want him to see one of the guys on the team pouting and loafing and glaring at umpires and all that other garbage. "We root for the Braves because they're the good guys, Zack. Except for that one guy. Yeah, he's a turd."
 
#6,884
#6,884
Completely understand where you're coming from. Make sure to shield him from chipper's postgame quotes as he does his best Derek Dooley impersonation.

Vercingetorix said:
I just don't think there's any point to fans calling that trade a mistake when we don't have any access to the actual information that caused the Braves to dump Escobar. All we can see are the numbers, and numbers-wise, it certainly didn't improve the team. But Escobar wasn't traded because of numbers.

Strictly from a fan's perspective, I hated watching Escobar play, I was delighted when they traded him, and I haven't missed him once regardless of how bad Gonzalez has been. My son finally started watching baseball with me last year, and I didn't want him to see one of the guys on the team pouting and loafing and glaring at umpires and all that other garbage. "We root for the Braves because they're the good guys, Zack. Except for that one guy. Yeah, he's a turd."
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#6,885
#6,885
Vercingetorix said:
I just don't think there's any point to fans calling that trade a mistake when we don't have any access to the actual information that caused the Braves to dump Escobar. All we can see are the numbers, and numbers-wise, it certainly didn't improve the team. But Escobar wasn't traded because of numbers.

Strictly from a fan's perspective, I hated watching Escobar play, I was delighted when they traded him, and I haven't missed him once regardless of how bad Gonzalez has been. My son finally started watching baseball with me last year, and I didn't want him to see one of the guys on the team pouting and loafing and glaring at umpires and all that other garbage. "We root for the Braves because they're the good guys, Zack. Except for that one guy. Yeah, he's a turd."
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Great name btw :)
 
#6,886
#6,886
TBrown said:
Completely understand where you're coming from. Make sure to shield him from chipper's postgame quotes as he does his best Derek Dooley impersonation.
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Happily he's young enough that I'm not going to have to deal with any Chipper hero-worship. Not sure I could have tolerated that if I'd had a kid five or six years earlier.

Freddie Freeman is his favorite player right now, mostly because he thinks it's an awesome name that sounds like the alter ego of a superhero. Which it is.
 
#6,887
#6,887
Vercingetorix said:
Happily he's young enough that I'm not going to have to deal with any Chipper hero-worship. Not sure I could have tolerated that if I'd had a kid five or six years earlier.

Freddie Freeman is his favorite player right now, mostly because he thinks it's an awesome name that sounds like the alter ego of a superhero. Which it is.
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Chipper has always been my favorite player and got me into baseball, despite his flaws.

I got to say, I love Heap. He's probably going to be my favorite when Chipper retires.

Actually, what I love about Atlanta is this. They are all good guys. They come to work, they have fun, they mostly stay out of trouble.

I absolutely love cheering for this team.
 
#6,888
#6,888
zjcvols said:
Great name btw :)
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I wanted an unusual, slightly-out-there name. The frau wanted something traditional. Zack was almost literally the only name at the intersection of the two that we both thought was all right.

I had no idea at the time how popular a name it's become in recent years. I grew up knowing zero people named Zack. My kid has already had classes with three others. Who knew it's a top 10-ish boys' name now?
 
#6,889
#6,889
Vercingetorix said:
I wanted an unusual, slightly-out-there name. The frau wanted something traditional. Zack was almost literally the only name at the intersection of the two that we both thought was all right.

I had no idea at the time how popular a name it's become in recent years. I grew up knowing zero people named Zack. My kid has already had classes with three others. Who knew it's a top 10-ish boys' name now?
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I did that with my son Jake. Never researched how popular of a name it was.
 
#6,890
#6,890
Vercingetorix said:
I wanted an unusual, slightly-out-there name. The frau wanted something traditional. Zack was almost literally the only name at the intersection of the two that we both thought was all right.

I had no idea at the time how popular a name it's become in recent years. I grew up knowing zero people named Zack. My kid has already had classes with three others. Who knew it's a top 10-ish boys' name now?
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My mom says the exact same thing about it. She likes "I swear, when we named you, nobody was named Zack."

My parents came thisclose to actually naming me Zechariah (they named us all after old testament bible characters for whatever reason after me), but stuck with Zackary.

Also, you know how to spell the name. There is nothing more annoying than when you are on facebook, someone writes your name, and spells it wrong.
 
#6,892
#6,892
VOLinthaATL said:
You named your kid after Zack Morris. No need to be ashamed of it.
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Haha solid.

I agree on Freddie Freeman..great name. Also seems like a great guy. Agreed on all things Chipper related, too. I don't want him to go because he's been the guy for pretty much my whole life, but give him a muzzle at least.
 
#6,893
#6,893
zjcvols said:
My mom says the exact same thing about it. She likes "I swear, when we named you, nobody was named Zack."

My parents came thisclose to actually naming me Zechariah (they named us all after old testament bible characters for whatever reason after me), but stuck with Zackary.

Also, you know how to spell the name. There is nothing more annoying than when you are on facebook, someone writes your name, and spells it wrong.
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My kid's full name is the traditional, presidential spelling "Zachary." We spell it "Zack" when we shorten it, because according to standard English pronunciation "Zach" obviously rhymes with "snatch."
 
#6,894
#6,894
VOLinthaATL said:
You named your kid after Zack Morris. No need to be ashamed of it.
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Had to Google this up. I was in college when that show came out, so I never saw any of it.

Girls who were kids when that show was on the air are now in their 30s. That's probably why there are so many Zacks running around the elementary schools now.
 
#6,899
#6,899
zjcvols said:
Idiot should have been a HOF.
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If he had ever cut down the swing a little and developed some plate discipline, he probably would be close. I was at Spring Training the year that they tried him at leadoff. In the 3 games I was at, he K'd 6 times and walked back to the dugout more slowly every time. It just wasn't in him.
 
#6,900
#6,900
GAVol said:
If he had ever cut down the swing a little and developed some plate discipline, he probably would be close. I was at Spring Training the year that they tried him at leadoff. In the 3 games I was at, he K'd 6 times and walked back to the dugout more slowly every time. It just wasn't in him.
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Probably make the Hall eventually. Nice HR total, no PED suspicion, one of the best (if not THE best) CF of all time, and played at that level for more than a decade.
 
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