Atlanta Braves II

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#7,401
#7,401
Dbake005 said:
Thing is, he didn't have just as much. Best position player prospect of all time.
At their peaks, harper is far, far better. We'll see how he progresses.
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At their peaks? Can we even speculate what their peaks are? I'm aware scouting reports but at the end of the day that's all they are.

Do I think he'll be great? Probably so. But get off his jock and let him actually achieve something besides a handful of JuCo home runs.

Greatest prospect of all time..welcome to the technology age.
 
#7,402
#7,402
TBrown said:
At their peaks? Can we even speculate what their peaks are? I'm aware scouting reports but at the end of the day that's all they are.

Do I think he'll be great? Probably so. But get off his jock and let him actually achieve something besides a handful of JuCo home runs.

Greatest prospect of all time..welcome to the technology age.
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Name one with more potential/talent or a higher ceiling. The argument isn't that he's ready right now (he's just 19) or will be the greatest ever, but that he is the greatest prospect ever.
 
#7,403
#7,403
TBrown said:
At their peaks? Can we even speculate what their peaks are? I'm aware scouting reports but at the end of the day that's all they are.

Do I think he'll be great? Probably so. But get off his jock and let him actually achieve something besides a handful of JuCo home runs.

Greatest prospect of all time..welcome to the technology age.
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I am far less on his jock than most scouts who are saying he is the best position prospect of all time.

And yes, we can speculate what their peaks are. Speculate.

Hard to compare them at their career points right now. But harper is certainly the better prospect with more potential. Both could be great.
 
#7,404
#7,404
This I can dig.

Dbake005 said:
I am far less on his jock than most scouts who are saying he is the best position prospect of all time.

And yes, we can speculate what their peaks are. Speculate.

Hard to compare them at their career points right now. But harper is certainly the better prospect with more potential. Both could be great.
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#7,405
#7,405
Well it's impossible to straight up compare them.

Though Harper is CF/RF and Heyward is RF, they're different types of players.

I am of the opinion that at their peaks, Harper's would be noticeably higher. He's simply got a higher ceiling. Heyward is still only 22, though... can't exactly write the kid off, despite troublesome happenings the past two years. Harper has his holes right now, too.
 
#7,406
#7,406
etmccreary said:
Name one with more potential/talent or a higher ceiling. The argument isn't that he's ready right now (he's just 19) or will be the greatest ever, but that he is the greatest prospect ever.
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Well let's see, prior to about 7-8 years ago, how big of a deal were prospects? If Bryce wants to be thought of as the highest-ceilinged minor leaguer of the last 5 years, by all means. I won't stand in his way.

Like I said, he's got all-world talent. Calling him the greatest of anything ever is preposterous though.


The act of valuing prospects is a fairly recent development..born of inflated contracts, free agency, and economic downturn.
 
#7,407
#7,407
This sounds bias because I am a braves fan and watch 160 games a year, but it also allows me to have a very informed opinion about Heyward. 2010 Heyward and 2011 Heyward were not remotely close to the same player. There's no- "he was in a slump." he was a different player. Different swing, different approach. It wasn't even comparable. Does that worry me? Absolutely. But if 2010 pre thumb Heyward comes back, there is no higher-ceiling.

Dbake005 said:
Well it's impossible to straight up compare them.

Though Harper is CF/RF and Heyward is RF, they're different types of players.

I am of the opinion that at their peaks, Harper's would be noticeably higher. He's simply got a higher ceiling. Heyward is still only 22, though... can't exactly write the kid off, despite troublesome happenings the past two years. Harper has his holes right now, too.
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#7,408
#7,408
Which brings me full circle.. Ceilings are speculation. Heyward, Harper, an everyone else have to play it out. They are what they are. So let Harper do something.

Sorry for hijacking.
 
#7,409
#7,409
TBrown said:
Well let's see, (1)prior to about 7-8 years ago, how big of a deal were prospects? If Bryce wants to be thought of as the highest-ceilinged minor leaguer of the last 5 years, by all means. I won't stand in his way.

Like I said, he's got all-world talent. Calling him the greatest of anything ever is preposterous though.

(2)The act of valuing prospects is a fairly recent development..born of inflated contracts, free agency, and economic downturn.
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(1)Josh Hamilton, JD Drew, Alex Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr., and many, many others say a very big deal - the Internet just wasn't as developed as it is now (Twitter, FB, MLB.com, etc.)

(2)Absolutely false.
 
#7,410
#7,410
TBrown said:
This sounds bias because I am a braves fan and watch 160 games a year, but it also allows me to have a very informed opinion about Heyward. 2010 Heyward and 2011 Heyward were not remotely close to the same player. There's no- "he was in a slump." he was a different player. Different swing, different approach. It wasn't even comparable. Does that worry me? Absolutely. But if 2010 pre thumb Heyward comes back, there is no higher-ceiling.
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Agreed on all points except the very last one. Harper's ceiling edges him out, but not by a whole lot.

TBrown said:
Which brings me full circle.. Ceilings are speculation. Heyward, Harper, an everyone else have to play it out. They are what they are. So let Harper do something.

Sorry for hijacking.
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Agreed - the game isn't played on paper, some turn out as advertised, some better, and some don't turn out at all.

The occasional thread hijacking can be fun as long as nobody gets too bent out of shape, haha.
 
#7,411
#7,411
Dude, yes, there is a higher ceiling. And it's Harper. Haha. That isn't even a knock on Heyward's potential... at all. At their respective PEAKS, Harper would be a better player. Nobody knows what the hell will happen, but it's the truth. Maybe not by a lot, but he just has a higher reachable ceiling.

And yes, Heyward went from reasonable, rookie struggles to looking like he had no idea what the **** he was doing when he stepped in. At-bats were over before they started against Heyward sometimes last season, and it was just odd to see. More than just a funk, as you said. I hope he bounces back with a nice .285/20homer season, or more. I love watching good baseball players.
 
#7,412
#7,412
I understand his physical skill set but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on adequately projecting the ceiling of a 19 yr old who hasn't been above AA (I could be wrong) to be higher than that of a 20 yr old who dominated MLB.

etmccreary said:
Agreed on all points except the very last one. Harper's ceiling edges him out, but not by a whole lot.



Agreed - the game isn't played on paper, some turn out as advertised, some better, and some don't turn out at all.

The occasional thread hijacking can be fun as long as nobody gets too bent out of shape, haha.
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#7,421
#7,421
I don't love 6 walks per 9, but I'm not complaining, either. He's a great arm.

This definitely isn't our make or break year, so it'll be interesting to see how the team looks in 2013.
 
#7,422
#7,422
Just because you hit a 500 foot bomb at 15 doesn't mean you have a higher ceiling than Heyward. At the end of the day you still have to play the game and that rings true for both Heyward and Harper. Albert Pujols being a 13th round pick just proves my point. Ceilings and projections do not amount to jack.
 
#7,424
#7,424
Scotty's Flat Top said:
He isn't playing high school or college ball anymore. He was the sh*t. Hit 30 dings with 100 ribs in the show then you can blow kisses or hop scotch while whistling Dixie around the bases, until then stop acting like your Ty Cobb
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Yeah, not like the dude hasn't been compared to Ken Griffey Jr.

He's 19. Who cares how he acts as long he plays 100%? Which he does.
 
#7,425
#7,425
Scotty's Flat Top said:
Just because you hit a 500 foot bomb at 15 doesn't mean you have a higher ceiling than Heyward. At the end of the day you still have to play the game and that rings true for both Heyward and Harper. Albert Pujols being a 13th round pick just proves my point. Ceilings and projections do not amount to jack.
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You are completely correct that hitting a 500+ foot bomb at 15 years old doesn't mean you have a higher ceiling than one of the most promising young players in MLB. However, when you look at their skills, you will see why most DO believe Harper has a higher ceiling than Heyward.

Athleticism and speed: I see Harper as more athletic and more fluid. Speed is a wash, as both are above average, but will never be considered a 'speed guy'.

Defense/fielding: Heyward is a better outfielder than Harper right now, but as Harper continues to learn the ropes after spending the majority of his young career behind the dish, I believe he will be a better defensive outfielder than Heyward.

Arm strength: Harper and it isn't close.

Batting for average: Above average for both. Heyward will probably have a higher career batting average, but I believe they will have a similar career batting average.

Hitting for power: Harper, obviously.
 
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