Atlanta Braves Thread - Francisco Cabrera edition

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#6,026
#6,026
GAVol said:
He just brought up Koufax to show that knocking Jones' longevity is a false narrative; especially when Jones was at a high level for 10+ years.
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Exactly. I completely reject this idea that the Hall of Fame should be primarily about rewarding the long-term slog of gradually piling up counting stats. It should be about greatness. The fact that Bert Blyleven is in the Hall of Fame while Dwight Gooden and Fernando Valenzuela are not is so ridiculous that GPS apps ought to refuse to navigate to Cooperstown, NY until they get it fixed. It's the Hall of FAME, not the Hall Of Tediously Accumulated WAR.

Andruw Jones is the Sandy Koufax of the outfield. He should be in there just like Ozzie Smith is in there.
 
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#6,027
#6,027
GAVol said:
Why? You called out a guy that was good for his first 10+ years over longevity. Verc named a guy in the HOF who was average the first half of his career.
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dude, once again, a career sub 3 ERA is not equal to Andrew’s career pedestrian slash line.

If you take out SK’s age 20 season, his worst statistical season was a 4.48. Which is about average. Don’t make me dig up Andy’s worst seasons.
 
#6,030
#6,030
Scotty's Flat Top said:
dude, once again, a career sub 3 ERA is not equal to Andrew’s career pedestrian slash line.

If you take out SK’s age 20 season, his worst statistical season was a 4.48. Which is about average. Don’t make me dig up Andy’s worst seasons.
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You keep bringing up his hitting when nobody thinks Andruw should be in the HOF because of his hitting.

It is pretty clear that you had no real appreciation for what you were watching when Andruw Jones was standing in CF in his prime. Which is too bad. He was historically good.
 
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#6,031
#6,031
Vercingetorix said:
You keep bringing up his hitting when nobody thinks Andruw should be in the HOF because of his hitting.

It is pretty clear that you had no real appreciation for what you were watching when Andruw Jones was standing in CF in his prime. Which is too bad. He was historically good.
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Yes, I bring up hitting.


I bring up hitting because IMO (and most others) you need to be a complete player. You should have no mass exploitable holes in your game if you’re going to be enshrined forever. It’s a big f’ing deal. The hall should be very exclusive, unfortunately we do have turds like Ozzie Smith gracing the walls. Two wrongs don’t make a right though.


And there are a lot of incumbent players in the hall that I would take Andruw over in millisecond FWIW.
 
#6,034
#6,034
Scotty's Flat Top said:
Also, I loved watching Andruw play center, you can love his game and not think he deserves the Hall. It’s not mutually exclusive.
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It's a typical HOF argument. Nobody ever changes their mind.

I just get crazy when a guy who is career top 50 in HRs can't sniff the HOF because he supposedly didn't hit enough.
 
#6,039
#6,039
I had to listen to this today in honor of the Braves newest Hall of Famer!


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy1V5LHXWbg[/youtube]
 
#6,040
#6,040
Scotty's Flat Top said:
Yes, I bring up hitting.


I bring up hitting because IMO (and most others) you need to be a complete player. You should have no mass exploitable holes in your game if you’re going to be enshrined forever. It’s a big f’ing deal. The hall should be very exclusive, unfortunately we do have turds like Ozzie Smith gracing the walls. Two wrongs don’t make a right though.
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We could have cut all this short if you would just have said "I don't think it's possible to be good enough defensively for it to count for the Hall of Fame. Even if you are truly transcendent at your position." Worrying about Andruw Jones's slash line is like watching Miss America and getting hung up on whether she played piano well enough in the talent part.
 
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#6,041
#6,041
GAVol said:
Probably so. I'm old enough to remember when 400 HRs meant an automatic induction.
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50 is still a helluva an accomplishment, watching Andruw that season was probably the most fun I’ve had watching any Brave ever have, Chipper included.

I guess Andruw is this generations Dale Murphy re: HOF.
 
#6,042
#6,042
Vercingetorix said:
We could have cut all this short if you would just have said "I don't think it's possible to be good enough defensively for it to count for the Hall of Fame. Even if you are truly transcendent at your position." Worrying about Andruw Jones's slash line is like watching Miss America and getting hung up on whether she played piano well enough in the talent part.
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Except no, hitting is the most important rubric on a position players resume. It’s just how it is, and how it should be. Sure, defense is important, as is base running et al but a beautiful .300 career avg is the meat and potatoes. It’s magical, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

Chipper is the perfect HOF’r to me, his career is textbook Cooperstown, you should be of/better/or very close to that level (across the board) to be enshrined.
 
#6,044
#6,044
Heard a crazy start on the radio that I'll probably get wrong. Chipper hit 450+ HRs. 201 of them either tied the game or put his team ahead.
 
#6,045
#6,045
Scotty's Flat Top said:
Except no, hitting is the most important rubric on a position players resume. It’s just how it is, and how it should be. Sure, defense is important, as is base running et al but a beautiful .300 career avg is the meat and potatoes. It’s magical, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
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Obviously I'm not saying defense is as important as hitting. What I'm saying is that there ought to be room in the HOF for a guy who was probably the absolute best ever defensively at a crucial defensive position. Especially one who also managed to hit 400 HRs too. It is a shame that the fact you can easily pick apart his offense makes people ignore what a marvel he was defensively. The only other CFs who put up defensive stats like his played in the era when there was never such a thing as running out of room because the wall was 500 feet from home plate.

Chipper is the perfect HOF’r to me, his career is textbook Cooperstown, you should be of/better/or very close to that level (across the board) to be enshrined.
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Definite first-ballot guy. Just imagine what kind of numbers he might have put up if he'd managed to play more than 125 games a year!
 
#6,048
#6,048
It is really hard to believe that any of our brethren would have an issue with the timeless love story of Ned Beatty and his gentleman caller in the forest, that's for sure.
 
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