Auburn did it, why not Tennessee?

#102
#102
Because excuses. Really though, Auburn had a mess of a coach, but not a mess of a program. The pieces were in place. Our pieces aren't even unpacked yet.
 
#104
#104
SeniorDrill said:
Here's something to think about and express your views on. Auburn went from a 3-9 record in 2012 to a 12-2 record and a runner-up finish to the national champions last year. Now I am in no way suggesting that will happen for us, nowhere close. However, we saw how good the offense was in the spring. We really don't know how good the defense will be until the 16 new defensive players are added to the mix but I think we can assume they will be much better also. Now you see all the predictions where the Vols will only win 5 or 6 games. Why is it a stretch to believe that if Butch gets all the pieces in place we could surprise a lot of people and win 7 or 8 games? :crossfingers:
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Tennessee is not a joke like Auburn.
 
#107
#107
Nationdom said:
Open up Google or your favorite search engine, look up Tennessee and auburn rosters. Also look at the coaches of both teams, learn what systems they like to run and what player profile they aim for. Do all of this then come back and learn from your mistake.
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So if we go 5-7, it has to be the coaching?
 
#108
#108
KBVol said:
I was thinking more 3 years and 2 top 10 classes to get to an 8-9 win season...
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What scares me is if we have another losing season this year ( entirely possible), then the fans start calling for Butch's head, then we don't get top 10 classes the next 2 or 3 years. I hope that I am wrong.
 
#112
#112
CountVolcula said:
So if we go 5-7, it has to be the coaching?
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Yes. Coaching will be part of the problem if they cannot beat six teams with less talent than they will have.

Again, everyone wants to look at UT in a vacuum. USCe has depth and talent issues in places. UGA probably has the stoutest roster in the East but has problems in their secondary and a new QB. UF has a new O and numerous questions. Vandy has big issues. Mizzou probably lost more production on both sides of the ball of any team in the SEC.

Every team on UT's schedule this year has question marks and potential weaknesses somewhere. Even Bama.

One thing that separates coaches is the ability to protect or overcome weaknesses. Spurrier has done it every year since arriving at USCe. Franklin certainly did it at Vandy. Jones' success will depend on him doing it.
 
#113
#113
Nationdom said:
At least coordinators should be questioned. 5-7 with this roster is unacceptable .
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you are talking about the Tennessee roster, right? The one with this sort of experience??

45% of this roster has NOT ever set foot on a division one football field.


of the returning players that have played, here are the number who have had more than 10 starts at D-1.

4 seniors (Downs (13), Coleman (25), Worley (10) and Johnson (34))
4 juniors (Howard (10), Maggit (17), McNeil (19) and Randolph (23)
2 sophomores. (North (11) and Sutton (12)

so 10 players on this roster have had 10 or more starts in their career. Everyone else has not. This is assuming Howard returns. If not, only 9 have started 10 or more times.

it is POSSIBLE for this team to win 4, 6 or 8 games. Possible because they have to play the schedule and things happen.

6 wins is more probable than 4 or 8. 5 is a more likely as a guess at this juncture because it will take time for the inexperienced players to learn to compete. Talking of those with SEC level talent. Health is a major factor. lose the experienced players early in season could lead to a catastrophic season.
 
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#114
#114
Larry. You still aren't looking at Jones' problems in the context of the problems of the coaches he will face.

Mizzou lost easily their best two OL's and DL's. They lost their top 3 WR's and have nothing to replace them with in kind. They lost their QB, top RB, 2 LB's, 3 DB starters. It wouldn't be completely inaccurate to call their roster "decimated". Is that someone Jones should lose to? I don't think so. If not then who is the 7th loss? USU, Chatt, ASU, UK, or Vandy? UT has more talent AND fewer roster issues than any of them.

At some point, a coach has to earn his salary.
 
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#115
#115
sjt18 said:
Larry. You still aren't looking at Jones' problems in the context of the problems of the coaches he will face.

Mizzou lost easily their best two OL's and DL's. They lost their top 3 WR's and have nothing to replace them with in kind. They lost their QB, top RB, 2 LB's, 3 DB starters. It wouldn't be completely inaccurate to call their roster "decimated". Is that someone Jones should lose to? I don't think so. If not then who is the 7th loss? USU, Chatt, ASU, UK, or Vandy? UT has more talent AND fewer roster issues than any of them.

At some point, a coach has to earn his salary.
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doesn't matter.

as I said, they could win 4, 6 or 8 games. But it should not be shocking or surprising if they end up with 5 wins with the experience of this roster. Even a season of 4 wins would not surprise.

This may be the most inexperienced Tennessee roster in the history of the program. I would have to spend a lot of time to research.

They might win 7 games. They might also win 5. We obviously have to see how things play out but lose Worley, North and AJ Johnson and 4 or 5 is more likely than 6 or 7

one other comment, inexperience showed up last year. Worley staying healthy and they would have been in a bowl game. One position prevented it.
 
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#116
#116
LWSVOL said:
you are talking about the Tennessee roster, right? The one with this sort of experience??

45% of this roster has NOT ever set foot on a division one football field.


of the returning players that have played, here are the number who have had more than 10 starts at D-1.

4 seniors (Downs (13), Coleman (25), Worley (10) and Johnson (34))
4 juniors (Howard (10), Maggit (17), McNeil (19) and Randolph (23)
2 sophomores. (North (11) and Sutton (12)

so 10 players on this roster have had 10 or more starts in their career. Everyone else has not. This is assuming Howard returns. If not, only 9 have started 10 or more times.

it is POSSIBLE for this team to win 4, 6 or 8 games. Possible because they have to play the schedule and things happen.

6 wins is more probable than 4 or 8. 5 is a more likely as a guess at this juncture because it will take time for the inexperienced players to learn to compete. Talking of those with SEC level talent. Health is a major factor. lose the experienced players early in season could lead to a catastrophic season.
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I completely agree with you Larry, but common sense and VN are two things that don't go together, so your post will likely fall on deaf ears. Too many fellow vol fans are hyped up on one great recruiting class. Can't say I blame them though it's all we've really had to be excited about given the last few years. But we need two or three more before we can match our competition.
 
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#117
#117
Don't forget that Auburn allows players who meet the NCAA and SEC academic standards to enroll and be on scholarship.. So does every other team in the SEC (yes even Vandy, Franklin got that done) but Tennessee does NOT. Cheeks admissions policies do not allow Tennessee to recruit these players,,
 
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#118
#118
Don't forget that Auburn allows players who meet the NCAA and SEC academic standards to enroll and be on scholarship.. So does every other team in the SEC (yes even Vandy, Franklin got that done) but Tennessee does NOT. Cheeks admissions policies do not allow Tennessee to recruit these players,,
 
#119
#119
The Vols won't do what Auburn did due to one simple fact. You have to recruit and coach the lines properly. Skill position guys are easy to come by. Getting flashy Qb's and Rb's helps some but not at the expense of getting the big uglies you need.

Fulmer understood this in the late 90's. him being an offensive linemen, he knew what to do and who to recruit there.

You can pretty much run any QB out there provided the line is doing a good job. Good lines make average QB's and Rb's look like world beaters. Good D lines make average defenses look monstrous(see Nick Fairley against Oregon in 2010, yep that same Oregon team that boatraced the Vols that year).


Case in point. This is how Auburn has recruited the past few years for the offensive line you'll most likely see this year.

2010
Shon Coleman 6'6 310lbs OT - 5 star out of high school (I mention him because that's who is replacing Greg Robinson who went #2 in the NFL draft this year)

2011
Reese Dismukes 6'3 295 C - high 4 star out of high school( Rated the #1 center in the country coming out of high school. Currently on the Remington watch list for the 2014 award for the best collegiate center)

2012
Alex Kozan 6'4 300lbs OG - 4 star out of high school

2012
Avery Young 6'6 315 OT - 4 star out of high school

2012
Jordan Diamond 6'6 315 OG - 4 star out of high school

When you have an Oline that averages over 300lbs and is comprised of 4 and 5 stars, you're going places. Everyone one of these guys has several years of SEC experience. Yes they've all played meaningful snaps.

And if that weren't enough this is who is coaching them.

J.B. Grimes 4-1-13 - YouTube

They didn't lead the nation in rushing last year for nothing even when EVERYONE knew a run play was coming. Even when teams loaded the box with 9 men they still got their 4-5 yards.They weren't at the top in the SEC in fewest sacks allowed during the regular season for nothing.

It ain't because they are lucky. No, Auburn is good. Auburn has led the SEC in offensive line recruiting for several years now(sorta like TN did in the late 90's under Fulmer). That's a statistic most people don't know as we tend to pay attention to only the 5 star stud RB's and QB's and LB's and such. It's also why during the past 10 years Auburn has more SEC championships than anyone. Yep, more than Bama, LSU, Florida, and Georgia.

Now, on the other hand this is how the Vols are doing particularly on that Oline.

2011
Marcus Jackson 6'2 304 OG - 4 star out of high school. This is what the Vols need more of.

2011
Mack Crowder 6'2 286 C - 3 star out of high school.

2011
Kyler Kerbyson 6'4 304 OG - 3 star out of high school.

2013
Coleman Thomas 6'6 311 OT - 3 star out of high school and a FRESHMAN with zero SEC experience.

2013
Dontarius Blair 6-8 313 OT - 4 star JUCO. This is fine too especially when trying to plug holes in past poor recruiting.

Now compare that to what Auburn is putting out there. No comparison.

Put the kool-aid down folks.
 
#120
#120
LWSVOL said:
doesn't matter.

as I said, they could win 4, 6 or 8 games. But it should not be shocking or surprising if they end up with 5 wins with the experience of this roster. Even a season of 4 wins would not surprise.
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Five should surprise and disappoint. Four... would be a very subpar performance.

How can it not matter that opponents face worse roster issues than the Vols?

This may be the most inexperienced Tennessee roster in the history of the program. I would have to spend a lot of time to research.
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I don't think you'd have to spend all that much time. Dooley's 1st two teams based on starts would probably be pretty comparable if not worse.

Base just on a comparison of the final 09 roster vs the '10 first game roster.

The Vols replaced 4 OL's with Jerrod Shaw being the lone veteran. They had to play Fr on the OL out of pure necessity. Poole had never started, had less than 400 career yds in mop up, and had no back up. UT didn't have a QB that was even on the roster in 09. They did return Stocker, Moore, and Jones but the next two WR's were Fr. Moore and Jones weren't starters to begin the 09 season.

On D they returned Walker on the DL but his knees were shot. Thompson and Reviez returned at LB plus Lathers sort of. Jackson was the only DB to start vs UK 09 and UTM '10. The loss of Berry was bigger than any loss from UT's '13 D roster.

They might win 7 games. They might also win 5. We obviously have to see how things play out but lose Worley, North and AJ Johnson and 4 or 5 is more likely than 6 or 7
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Yes if UT is hit extraordinarily hard by the injury bug then it could get tough... but the same for UGA, USCe, UF, Mizzou, Vandy, Ole Miss... Probably the only two teams on UT's schedule that could absorb the loss of their best WR, starting QB, and best LB are Bama and OU.

one other comment, inexperience showed up last year. Worley staying healthy and they would have been in a bowl game. One position prevented it.
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I agree with that. But Worley will be more ably backed up this year than last. The receiver positions are deeper and more talented. UT might be able to lose North and replace that production. RB will be deeper and more talented.

The OL is untested but they aren't new guys on the whole. There are 8 guys returning. Wiesman, Crowder, Jackson, and Kerbyson have all gotten "real" PT.

The DL could be a problem... but that isn't new. LB should be stronger. DB should be significantly stronger.
 
#121
#121
Xanusus said:
The Vols won't do what Auburn did due to one simple fact. You have to recruit and coach the lines properly. Skill position guys are easy to come by. Getting flashy Qb's and Rb's helps some but not at the expense of getting the big uglies you need.

Fulmer understood this in the late 90's. him being an offensive linemen, he knew what to do and who to recruit there.

You can pretty much run any QB out there provided the line is doing a good job. Good lines make average QB's and Rb's look like world beaters. Good D lines make average defenses look monstrous(see Nick Fairley against Oregon in 2010, yep that same Oregon team that boatraced the Vols that year).
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Really? You can run any QB out there? Talent at skill positions doesn't matter... that's an interesting concept considering the Vol O last fall. Of course those 4/5* OL's don't count, right?

Now compare that to what Auburn is putting out there. No comparison.

Put the kool-aid down folks.
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1) Few if any really believe that UT is going to mimic Auburn.

2) Mizzou had a very good OL last year as well. IIRC, they had a 4*, 2 3*, a 2*, and a guy who wasn't rated. They were second to Aub in rushing in the SEC. They were 3rd in the SEC in total O.

3) I think most would be pretty satisfied with 6-8 wins.
 
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#122
#122
sjt18 said:
Really? You can run any QB out there? Talent at skill positions doesn't matter... that's an interesting concept considering the Vol O last fall. Of course those 4/5* OL's don't count, right?

Context. Recruiting AND coaching. See second sentence.
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#123
#123
I can see us gaining ground in the SEC east this year....but what Auburn did last year was not the norm type of deal(some big luck).....doubt we get that many freak plays fall into our lap this year. Bowl or bust this year...no excuses for staff if they can't get us to 6-6 and I realize our tough schedule and youth...but? really?
 
#125
#125
sjt18 said:
Five should surprise and disappoint. Four... would be a very subpar performance.

How can it not matter that opponents face worse roster issues than the Vols?

I don't think you'd have to spend all that much time. Dooley's 1st two teams based on starts would probably be pretty comparable if not worse.

Base just on a comparison of the final 09 roster vs the '10 first game roster.

The Vols replaced 4 OL's with Jerrod Shaw being the lone veteran. They had to play Fr on the OL out of pure necessity. Poole had never started, had less than 400 career yds in mop up, and had no back up. UT didn't have a QB that was even on the roster in 09. They did return Stocker, Moore, and Jones but the next two WR's were Fr. Moore and Jones weren't starters to begin the 09 season.

On D they returned Walker on the DL but his knees were shot. Thompson and Reviez returned at LB plus Lathers sort of. Jackson was the only DB to start vs UK 09 and UTM '10. The loss of Berry was bigger than any loss from UT's '13 D roster.

Yes if UT is hit extraordinarily hard by the injury bug then it could get tough... but the same for UGA, USCe, UF, Mizzou, Vandy, Ole Miss... Probably the only two teams on UT's schedule that could absorb the loss of their best WR, starting QB, and best LB are Bama and OU.


I agree with that. But Worley will be more ably backed up this year than last. The receiver positions are deeper and more talented. UT might be able to lose North and replace that production. RB will be deeper and more talented.

The OL is untested but they aren't new guys on the whole. There are 8 guys returning. Wiesman, Crowder, Jackson, and Kerbyson have all gotten "real" PT.

The DL could be a problem... but that isn't new. LB should be stronger. DB should be significantly stronger.
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Which of our opponents for this fall have 45% of the roster that has never played? know you have researched the rosters of those we are playing so you should have that information.

Also, do you have a list or total number of the returning players for the school with 45% not having played who have 10 or more starts?

That would give me something to consider as far as their experience.

thanks for memory jogger on recent squads. gives me a good place to review..
 
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