Baltimore Unrest

#876
#876
agent|orange said:
It doesn't justify the riots on the streets of Baltimore at all.

Those are just idiotic thugs looking to do idiotic thuggish crap. They're pursuing illegitimate outcomes from what started as a legitimate protest against police brutality.
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Why is it so hard for some people to wrap around their minds that both parties are equally to blame? The cops and the rioters are both behaving like feral goons. Why is it that people want to takes sides and say these people are right, but the other side is wrong?
 
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#877
#877
Septic said:
Again, you are giving them a benefit of logic that they have not earned.

They are burning down their own community's which defy's common sense. Why would you believe that they would suddenly come to the realization that criminal behavior has consequences?

They don't care.

If you shoot them, they won't quit - they will however, shoot back - I can see how that could escalate quickly.
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I think you're correct. How does the issue get solved though? Even if the police stop being jerks, these people will find a reason to riot and murder. How do we stop a generational issue?
 
#878
#878
37L1 said:
I'm pretty sure you got it after all you know everything.
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No, unless you're trying to equivocate murdering looters in American neighborhoods with that of a drone strike that killed an enemy combatant in another country plotting terrorism.

Are those the same things?

Again, what's your point?
 
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#879
#879
hog88 said:
I don't recall them looting.

Keep up we're discussing two separate issues.
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No they aren't.

Shooting didn't stop the protests, just made more of them. Same if you shoot looters/protesters. A violent reaction will lead to more violence and not just in Baltimore.

If they decide to clear the streets, there are better ways to do it then to declare "Shoot on sight/martial law."
 
#880
#880
Septic said:
No, unless you're trying to equivocate murdering looters in American neighborhoods with that of a drone strike that killed an enemy combatant in another country plotting terrorism.

Are those the same things?

Again, what's your point?
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Regarding your quote about execution without trial of American citizens "asinine":

When was their trial? I must have missed it. Was the law changed to cover their execution?
 
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#881
#881
Rasputin_Vol said:
Seemed like 9 out off 10 of his offenses were pot/drug related with 2 or maybe 3 indefensible crimes. Even with that, no excuse to pound thee life out of him him.
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By the way, it was 22 offenses. Not that it changes your last sentence.
 
#882
#882
davethevol said:
I think you're correct. How does the issue get solved though? Even if the police stop being jerks, these people will find a reason to riot and murder. How do we stop a generational issue?
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Who knows? My whole point in entering this discussion is that the suggestion that an escalation of violence on the governments side is not a viable solution.

Cops as a whole get a bad wrap these days, some of it's deserved and some of it isn't. I'm a moderately well educated white male with a six figure income that obeys the law and I don't really trust or feel comfortable around law enforcement officers. I can't imagine how impoverished minorities must feel about them - but I'm certain its further down the line than my feelings.
 
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#883
#883
Septic said:
Who knows? My whole point in entering this discussion is that the suggestion that an escalation of violence on the governments side is not a viable solution.

Cops as a whole get a bad wrap these days, some of it's deserved and some of it isn't. I'm a moderately well educated white male with a six figure income that obeys the law and I don't really trust or feel comfortable around law enforcement officers. I can't imagine how impoverished minorities must feel about them - but I'm certain its further down the line than my feelings.
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What are you afraid of?
 
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#886
#886
37L1 said:
Regarding your quote about execution without trial of American citizens "asinine":

When was their trial? I must have missed it. Was the law changed to cover their execution?
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One could argue that it was unconstitutional and morally wrong to drone the two American born terrorists. Certainly a constitutional quandary there. I don't disagree.

I don't think that you'd get too much support in convincing Americans that liquor store looters deserve the same fate as members of Taliban - irrespective of nationality or passport status.

The point though appears to have sailed over your head, continuously.
 
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#887
#887
Septic said:
Who knows? My whole point in entering this discussion is that the suggestion that an escalation of violence on the governments side is not a viable solution.

Cops as a whole get a bad wrap these days, some of it's deserved and some of it isn't. I'm a moderately well educated white male with a six figure income that obeys the law and I don't really trust or feel comfortable around law enforcement officers. I can't imagine how impoverished minorities must feel about them - but I'm certain its further down the line than my feelings.
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the problem is that the cops haven't escalated when the rioters have. bricks, looting and gunshots. yes the cops haven't been shot at, but civilians have been. lets not forget all the burned cop vehicles. and the way i always look at it, if i would be justified doing something then the cops are too. Guy tries to burn my car with or without me in it, I am going to take violent action to stop him and believe i have every right to defend myself and my property. the cops are supposed to be civil servants and protect civilian property from destruction. and the rioters have definitely used violence, which, imo, gives the cops every right to use violence. I know i would be calling for the cops to come in and shoot people if i was a local business owner.

so no violence on the protesters. you are found looting and rioting and you are fair game. and the rioters have forced the issue, not the cops.
 
#888
#888
37L1 said:
What are you afraid of?
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The knowledge that if you look at a cop the wrong way... if he's having a bad day and is morally ambiguous he can do whatever he wants and just say "yeah, dude reached for my taser".

I'm concerned that I'm not a citizen so much as I am a subject.

And if you're not... you're clearly in favor of a strong centralized government that can easily wield unquestionable power and authority. Your newfound political affiliation might be of some surprise to you, in fact.
 
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#889
#889
LouderVol said:
the problem is that the cops haven't escalated when the rioters have. bricks, looting and gunshots. yes the cops haven't been shot at, but civilians have been. lets not forget all the burned cop vehicles. and the way i always look at it, if i would be justified doing something then the cops are too. Guy tries to burn my car with or without me in it, I am going to take violent action to stop him and believe i have every right to defend myself and my property. the cops are supposed to be civil servants and protect civilian property from destruction. and the rioters have definitely used violence, which, imo, gives the cops every right to use violence. I know i would be calling for the cops to come in and shoot people if i was a local business owner.

so no violence on the protesters. you are found looting and rioting and you are fair game. and the rioters have forced the issue, not the cops.
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Cops escalated first. The riots are a response to the escalation.
 
#891
#891
agent|orange said:
The knowledge that if you look at a cop the wrong way... if he's having a bad day and is morally ambiguous he can do whatever he wants and just say "yeah, dude reached for my taser".

I'm concerned that I'm not a citizen so much as I am a subject.

And if you're not... you're clearly in favor of a strong centralized government that can easily wield unquestionable power and authority. Your newfound political affiliation might be of some surprise to you, in fact.
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That's strange, I don't feel that way at all. Must be my meds. . . but since I don't take any, it must be yours.
 
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#892
#892
davethevol said:
I think you're correct. How does the issue get solved though? Even if the police stop being jerks, these people will find a reason to riot and murder. How do we stop a generational issue?
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Find me 1 instance to back your claim? Name an instance were people rioted without a lengthy history of abuse of power?
 
#893
#893
agent|orange said:
Some of you guys need to read more than just "select" media sources:



So dude didn't even do anything. Okay, lets go further:



Okay, so everything checks out here.

Black dude with record and run-ins with police: Check.

Did some minor thing against the law or nothing at all: Check.



Yeah. Gray sustained very severe injuries in that van.

Again, he was a convicted criminal and likely a net drain on society. That doesn't mean he deserved a crushed voice box and fractured spine.

At least the police in Baltimore are aware enough of their own sadism and wait to get him in an unrecordable van before killing him. South Carolina cops take note: if you're in an area where killing a guy is recordable... just throw him in a van and do it off camera.

Land of the Free, mother(#*@&@ers.
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I doubt the injuries occurred in the van. I'd say when he was originally tackled and subdued is when they occurred. Simply sliding around in the back of a van in a metropolitan area isn't going to break your spine and crush your larynx.
Was what the cops did to him excessive? Most likely so...... Could it be possible that Gray had an underlying physical condition such as spinal stenosis that led to the unfortunate spinal injury? It's possible..... Even if that happened to be true nobody would believe it at this point.
I wish there was more video of the event,but it looked like he didn't have feeling in his leg before he was placed in the van.
 
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#894
#894
Septic said:
One could argue that it was unconstitutional and morally wrong to drone the two American born terrorists. Certainly a constitutional quandary there. I don't disagree.

I don't think that you'd get too much support in convincing Americans that liquor store looters deserve the same fate as members of Taliban - irrespective of nationality or passport status.

The point though appears to have sailed over your head, continuously.
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No it hasn't sailed over my head but my point obviously has gone over yours.

Here, I'll make it easy for you:

You say it's "asinine to execute American citizens without a trial" but even you have noted, there are exceptions, now aren't there, since I pointed out some for you.

Now sentiments might change if the looters escalate into Reginald Denny incidents.
 
#895
#895
37L1 said:
No they aren't.

Shooting didn't stop the protests, just made more of them. Same if you shoot looters/protesters. A violent reaction will lead to more violence and not just in Baltimore.

If they decide to clear the streets, there are better ways to do it then to declare "Shoot on sight/martial law."
Click to expand...

Don't equate looters and protestors. Peaceful protesters are being mature and honorable. Looters are vermin that need to be eradicated.
 
#897
#897
Carl Pickens said:
I doubt the injuries occurred in the van. I'd say when he was originally tackled and subdued is when they occurred. Simply sliding around in the back of a van in a metropolitan area isn't going to break your spine and crush your larynx.
Was what the cops did to him excessive? Most likely so...... Could it be possible that Gray had an underlying physical condition such as spinal stenosis that led to the unfortunate spinal injury? It's possible..... Even if that happened to be true nobody would believe it at this point.
I wish there was more video of the event,but it looked like he didn't have feeling in his leg before he was placed in the van.
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Well the city has paid out millions for this very practice killing and paralyzing people in the past
 
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#898
#898
Dr Dread said:
Find me 1 instance to back your claim? Name an instance were people rioted without a lengthy history of abuse of power?
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Welcome to the regulatory state. As police are tasked with dealing with the broad spectrum of offenses ranging from murder to a busted tail light, or from kidnapping to truancy, more and more power is shifted to them, and thus it becomes more and more easy to abuse.

It should come as no surprise that this kind of stuff happens in cities that are more and more "blue", in both the enforcement and political senses of the word.
 
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