Bashing needs to stop

#51
#51
terrypedigo said:
I said it before the game and I will say it after the game Vandy is a better football team than us, take the turnovers away and its a 10 to 17 point game, we got to beat Kentucky and keep the recruiting class together then we will win again, on vandy all you got to look at is the QB play they had 2 better than our 1 and Jordan Matt. was the best player on the field, and it made me sick every time AJ made a play he went into that look at me, instead of team, I don't like saying it but this is not the same vandy that went down to the local mall to recruit like they did in the past they got some good football players.
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So your saying Jimmy Franklin took some average players and coached them up?

Interesting concept.
 
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#52
#52
terrypedigo said:
I said it before the game and I will say it after the game Vandy is a better football team than us, take the turnovers away and its a 10 to 17 point game, we got to beat Kentucky and keep the recruiting class together then we will win again, on vandy all you got to look at is the QB play they had 2 better than our 1 and Jordan Matt. was the best player on the field, and it made me sick every time AJ made a play he went into that look at me, instead of team, I don't like saying it but this is not the same vandy that went down to the local mall to recruit like they did in the past they got some good football players.
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but that isn't how it works. You don't take the turnovers away because UT forced those turnovers. That happened. UT forced them and deserved them. They made those plays. You can't just say Vandy is better because if they didn't make those 4 huge errors they would have won. If UT didn't turn the ball over, they could have won by 7-14 points too. How does that work for one team and not the other? Better teams make their breaks and UT did that in that area, you can't just strip UT of credit for takeaways and say Vandy is the better team.

No, they don't go to the mall to recruit, but they do go to the mall to give tickets away to games and beg fans to come. That is the same old Vandy
 
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#53
#53
OrangeInKy said:
what qualifies as bashing? Is it bashing when one is upset with bad decisions? That doesn't seem like bashing, just seeing the reality of the situation. Bashing to me would be name calling, attacking, or saying how bad a coach or player is. I for one have done none of those. In fact, I don't put it on the players at all. I also haven't given up on the coaches. I just see what most see, which is questionable decision making in key points of a VERY WINNABLE ballgame. I just refuse to shrug my shoulders and point to a recruiting class. Regardless of how bad things have been in the program, you should win games that your team puts you in position to win, that is what good coaches do. Good coaches also win when they have superior talent, which UT did Saturday night. I am not saying Butch and staff aren't good coaches, I am saying that Saturday night, they did not coach well. It isn't bashing. When you are paid more than 95 percent of college coaches, I think it is reasonable for fans to expect to see some reason for that. We see it in many areas, but playcalling and game management need to improve. It's not bashing, it's just refusing to ignore reality.
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Correct, what you just said is pretty legit. Some aren't as rational
 
#55
#55
sjt18 said:
If well coached, this was a 7 win roster. Next year's roster looks to be worse tha this one. If this is a 4 or 5 win roster... I hate to even think about how bad next year might be.
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At the beginning of the year, I would have agreed that 7 wins was possible. But nobody knew that Mizzou and Auburn would be top 10 teams by November. I hoped for 6-6, but I'm not bailing on the guy for 5-7. We will not be worse next year from a talent perspective, thats just nonsense.
 
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#57
#57
sjt18 said:
If well coached, this was a 7 win roster. Next year's roster looks to be worse tha this one. If this is a 4 or 5 win roster... I hate to even think about how bad next year might be.
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Im starting to wonder if its really that bad. After watching some of our upperclassmen Im not sure the gap is as big as it appears.

Thats not a vote of confidence in the replacements but more of a worry with what is currently here.

Im not ready to say we will be better in those positions but I don't think the fall off will be what it appears on paper.
 
#58
#58
CountVolcula said:
I praised Jones when he beat South Carolina because they did a good job

He will also be admonished for doing a poor job

He's had more poor than good

Ratio isnt in his favor right now
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It's getting a little difficult to sweep a month's worth of crushing losses under the rug of what he did at Cincinatti and a recruiting class that doesn't mean a thing until the LOI's are signed.
 
#59
#59
GLDunlap said:
My God if I read about Alabama losing to Louisiana Monroe one more time I will freaking explode. Do you think Alabama fans were happy with that? So we should accept losing to Vanderbilt? CBJ and staff needs to know this really is unacceptable and not a post game catch phrase.
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By the way, Alabama lost to UL Monroe Saban's first year. Please go ahead and explode.

:hi:
 
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#60
#60
BeecherVol said:
Im starting to wonder if its really that bad. After watching some of our upperclassmen Im not sure the gap is as big as it appears.

Thats not a vote of confidence in the replacements but more of a worry with what is currently here.

Im not ready to say we will be better in those positions but I don't think the fall off will be what it appears on paper.
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Replacing an entire offensive line is not a big deal to an offense. :ermm:
 
#61
#61
Boca Vol said:
I think it's funny that a lot of the posters that are jumping ship are the ones that bought 1st class tickets on the ship last Jan/Feb.
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i'm going down with the ship and i am behind cbj 110%.as for recruiting.the legacies aren't going anywhere. book it.we might lose a few.i doubt we will.everyone knows the situation.they can come and be a factor here.go vols
 
#62
#62
BeecherVol said:
Im starting to wonder if its really that bad. After watching some of our upperclassmen Im not sure the gap is as big as it appears.

Thats not a vote of confidence in the replacements but more of a worry with what is currently here.

Im not ready to say we will be better in those positions but I don't think the fall off will be what it appears on paper.
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Maybe I am reaching here, but I think some of that may be due to what the upperclassman have had to put up with the last 3-5 years. I think new players who don't have the memories, experiences with former staff and players, etc will have a mental edge in a way, if that makes sense. What I mean is the losing mentality. The players that haven't been a part of the meltdown's and classic gaffe's and some just bad luck, may be more mentally fresh instead of having a "snakebit" mentality. I am not saying that is the case, just something I have thought about. Experience is a great thing, but if the majority of your experience has been losing under some odd circumstances, then maybe experience isn't the big thing we sometimes make it out to be. Not sure if I am reaching or not.
 
#63
#63
JonGrudensAgent said:
It's getting a little difficult to sweep a month's worth of crushing losses under the rug of what he did at Cincinatti and a recruiting class that doesn't mean a thing until the LOI's are signed.
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Recruiting is part of the gig and he appears to be delivering the best class we ve had in years (even with the struggles)

That said, with the due praise that comes with the recruiting efforts so far, I don't see a reason why the criticisms should be silenced because of that.
 
#65
#65
MedicT said:
Hmmmmm........

Franklin's first year at Vandy? 6-7

with wins against the likes of mighty Elon and Connecticut but losing to the likes of the Cincinnati Bearcats in the Liberty Bowl.
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Still made it to a bowl game, unlike your boy. hmmmmmmmm
 
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#66
#66
OrangeInKy said:
Maybe I am reaching here, but I think some of that may be due to what the upperclassman have had to put up with the last 3-5 years. I think new players who don't have the memories, experiences with former staff and players, etc will have a mental edge in a way, if that makes sense. What I mean is the losing mentality. The players that haven't been a part of the meltdown's and classic gaffe's and some just bad luck, may be more mentally fresh instead of having a "snakebit" mentality. I am not saying that is the case, just something I have thought about. Experience is a great thing, but if the majority of your experience has been losing under some odd circumstances, then maybe experience isn't the big thing we sometimes make it out to be. Not sure if I am reaching or not.
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I don't think thats a reach at all. Some people are able to rise above the negative past and some are not. (that goes for life in general)

Sometimes managers and coaches are able to get the good that is there out even with a shaky past.

Crompton is a good example IMO.
 
#67
#67
BeecherVol said:
Recruiting is part of the gig and he appears to be delivering the best class we ve had in years (even with the struggles)

That said, with the due praise that comes with the recruiting efforts so far, I don't see a reason why the criticisms should be silenced because of that.
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Exactly. I am behind him, pulling for him, and tend to believe he will do well; but I will not believe he is a great coach until he shows in. Saturday night was a great chance to show it and he didn't. I just refuse to blindly believe he is a superior coach. He recruits like one, gets paid like one, talks like one, but so far; he doesn't coach "in game" like one. Now, that can be fixed. I think it will. I hope it will. But until it does, it is what it is.
 
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#68
#68
JonGrudensAgent said:
It's getting a little difficult to sweep a month's worth of crushing losses under the rug of what he did at Cincinatti and a recruiting class that doesn't mean a thing until the LOI's are signed.
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Now that's a positive attitude! "Until the LOI's are signed." I wonder what this negavol would thinK if we had no commitments ... IT'S NOT FEBRUARY YET ... UNDERSTAND!

One more time, take a look at the top ten teams we played and match that against the depth we have and I am really amazed we did as well as we did. Right now we simply are not good but that does not mean we are not on the right road back. I think a top 2 COMMITMENT class is a good start in correcting our problems.

37 coaches in four years is not good for any program not to mention the attrition we have suffered because of it. Right now the one thing this program needs is stability which is a hudge factor in recruiting. All you negavols who are calling for firing people really show your ignorance.

As bUTch said to the kickers "poise, relax, poise, relax" and for negavols get a grip on reality.

Now wait, let's see how many people will flame on about the facts above. If you don't like the direction of the program and are miserable then go find another program to support. Bammer is doing well right now!
 
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#69
#69
SayNoToJorts said:
Did some of us really think that we were going to blow out Vandy? Did all of the neganerds that like to "keep it real" actually have higher expectations for a team with our current talent level when they have been saying we were a 5-7 team this entire time? How about we don't jump ship on our first year coach who already beat a #11 team this year, almost upset a #6 ranked team, and has coached through pretty much the hardest schedule I have ever seen. I am not saying that Butch is definitely the answer, but I am saying that some of the back seat athletic directors need to give the man some time to build our program. How easy it is for people to forget that Saban once lost to UL Monroe
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With the exception of Neyland,no UT coach was/is qualified to even be in the same room as Saban.
 
#70
#70
I think most of our fans forgot that Butch Jones said that we lack depth at a lot of positions. If he keeps bringing in top recruiting classes every year, that issue will be fixed. I didn't expect a winning season this year and realistic Vol fans didn't either. Whoever thought we was going 8-4 this year or something like that was just crazy. We have to learn to be patient and give the man some time. Recruits keep jumping on board cause CBJ is obvisiously a good guy and a good coach so that's still a positive. I do agree though, the bashing on here just makes our fan base look bad.
 
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#71
#71
JonGrudensAgent said:
Replacing an entire offensive line is not a big deal to an offense. :ermm:
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I wont miss 'em at all, they failed to knock candy off the ball on a very critical 3rd and short, setting up candy's winning touchdown drive. I wish them luck but some of 'em may get surprised on draft day. :sad:
 
#73
#73
wolfe said:
With the exception of Neyland,no UT coach was/is qualified to even be in the same room as Saban.
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Agreed. The thing that should precede the "Saban lost to UL Monroe" comments is "Saban turned around 2 major programs, won a national title, had a long and impressive coaching resume...". You have a certain kind of credibility when you lose games like that when you have won at the big boy level.
 
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#75
#75
photovol said:
From the best coaching staff in America to the worst in just one season
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I've always heard it said that it's a long way from the penthouse to the outhouse.

That said, CBJ and his staff are trying to fix the problems. The biggest problem has to do with a lack of speed at the skill positions which has been addressed many times by VN. The current staff seems to be addressing those issues through recruiting.

The worst thing I noticed Saturday night was that the team looked flat. I don't understand that. Vandy pimp-slapped UT last year, stole their lunch money and girlfriends. I expected the Vols to come out fired up and ready to play and show Vandy that last season was a fluke. But it never happened. Vandy even tried to show it was a fluke with 4 turnovers, which generally will get a team beat in a close game.

What we have to hope is that CBJ and his staff were simply unable to make this team play any better than its ability, which as we've seen against most teams, is visably lacking. After all, it's not like the staff inherited a gold mine of talent or were extremely familar with that talent, like Gus Malzahn at Auburn. Let's give the staff a chance with a full deck before we run 'em out of town.
 
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