Bashing needs to stop

#76
#76
VolFreakJosh said:
I think most of our fans forgot that Butch Jones said that we lack depth at a lot of positions. If he keeps bringing in top recruiting classes every year, that issue will be fixed. I didn't expect a winning season this year and realistic Vol fans didn't either. Whoever thought we was going 8-4 this year or something like that was just crazy. We have to learn to be patient and give the man some time. Recruits keep jumping on board cause CBJ is obvisiously a good guy and a good coach so that's still a positive. I do agree though, the bashing on here just makes our fan base look bad.
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I agree with everything you said, although I don't see much "bashing". I see logical and fair critiques done with respect and grounded in fact. I see people who all care about the program but see issues of concern. I see people who think the jury is out but see some things that need to be fixed. Nothing wrong with that imo.
The one thing I disagree with is the depth comment. That will fly against Mizzou, Bama, Oregon, etc, but not Vandy. Don't tell me we have less depth than them. Their entire secondary was out Saturday. I didn't expect 8-4. I expected 6-6 and that was VERY possible and should have happened. That's all. I don't think that is too high of a bar at the University of Tennessee.
 
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#77
#77
I will say this: Butch Jones hates to lose. That is clear. People are silly to compare him with Dooley. He is far better. It looked to me like Dooley just expected to lose for 3-4 years because the program was down. It never seemed to him that a loss was unacceptable, but instead, part of the "scar" process. I think that is a huge difference. Look at Muschamp at Florida. He is very Dooley like. He is over there as we speak trying to act like losing to Ga Southern is acceptable and part of the plan. That is the attitude we saw with Dooley and I don't see it with Butch, so I am glad about that. A true competitor finds ways to get it done. I just hope Butch backs off the "our plan is infallible" comment from his 1st presser, and looks for ways to improve even if it means deviating from the plan.
 
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#78
#78
We are a sub par team in the best conefrence in America. We have had 1 signature win in 5-6 years. Not a big deal to get beat anymore. We all should be use to it by now. We have been terrible for sometime now. It is what it is for now.
 
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#79
#79
OrangeInKy said:
Exactly. I am behind him, pulling for him, and tend to believe he will do well; but I will not believe he is a great coach until he shows in. Saturday night was a great chance to show it and he didn't. I just refuse to blindly believe he is a superior coach. He recruits like one, gets paid like one, talks like one, but so far; he doesn't coach "in game" like one. Now, that can be fixed. I think it will. I hope it will. But until it does, it is what it is.
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If you don't hope he succeeds your fan card should be removed.:)

Heck, I didn't like Dooley or Kiffin personally for that matter but hoped that both would win.

Jones appears to be a genuine guy that is easy to like, but that doesn't put him above criticism even if he is easier to pull for.
 
#80
#80
OrangeInKy said:
I will say this: Butch Jones hates to lose. That is clear. People are silly to compare him with Dooley. He is far better. It looked to me like Dooley just expected to lose for 3-4 years because the program was down. It never seemed to him that a loss was unacceptable, but instead, part of the "scar" process. I think that is a huge difference. A true competitor finds ways to get it done. I just hope Butch backs off the "our plan is infallible" comment from his 1st presser, and looks for ways to improve even if it means deviating from the plan.
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good post.:good!:
 
#81
#81
BeecherVol said:
If you don't hope he succeeds your fan card should be removed.:)

Heck, I didn't like Dooley or Kiffin personally for that matter but hoped that both would win.

Jones appears to be a genuine guy that is easy to like, but that doesn't put him above criticism even if he is easier to pull for.
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Oh I agree, look at my posts on this thread. I have plenty of criticism, just trying to balance it with things I see that are reason for optimism.
 
#82
#82
MedicT said:
And what coach beat "your boy" (Franklin) in that 2011 Liberty Bowl?:popcorn:
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What in the blue hell does the 2011 Liberty Bowl have to do with anything? It doesn't.

If UT is setting it's sights to compete with Vandy then they're looking in the wrong direction.
 
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#84
#84
OrangeInKy said:
Oh I agree, look at my posts on this thread. I have plenty of criticism, just trying to balance it with things I see that are reason for optimism.
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That was just a general comment, not directed at you at all.

Come on man!
"You" don't necessarily mean "you".:)
 
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#85
#85
SayNoToJorts said:
Did some of us really think that we were going to blow out Vandy? Did all of the neganerds that like to "keep it real" actually have higher expectations for a team with our current talent level when they have been saying we were a 5-7 team this entire time? How about we don't jump ship on our first year coach who already beat a #11 team this year, almost upset a #6 ranked team, and has coached through pretty much the hardest schedule I have ever seen. I am not saying that Butch is definitely the answer, but I am saying that some of the back seat athletic directors need to give the man some time to build our program. How easy it is for people to forget that Saban once lost to UL Monroe
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I really think some of us post for the sake of it. I am off work today so i will bite. No with the right a right mind thought we would blow out Vandy or have a 8-4 season. Vol fans are fustrated with how bad the situation is and want to get to the winning part, because the losing parts sucks and a lot of us are getting use to it.
 
#86
#86
Boca Vol said:
What in the blue hell does the 2011 Liberty Bowl have to do with anything? It doesn't.

If UT is setting it's sights to compete with Vandy then they're looking in the wrong direction.
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That was a response to a post referring to Coach Jones as "my boy." The foolishness being expressed over the outcome of this season leads to more foolish posts I suppose.:eek:lol:
 
#87
#87
Folks need hope going into next season and Butch has done very little on the field to give fans hope. Can you get excited about the offense next season? Losing every linemen although over rated will be tough. The QB situation if anything looks worse. Defensively, we are losing 6? defensive lineman not much hope there either. The point is Butch has not proven he can coach'em up. The talent coming in should help but Butch needs to figure out to win with what he has. Other coaches seem to win with talent comparable to ours.

Butch was out coached by Vandy with an extra week of prep. The fanbase should never be happy with what happened Saturday night.
 
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#89
#89
MedicT said:
And what coach beat "your boy" (Franklin) in that 2011 Liberty Bowl?:popcorn:
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Franklin is not my boy just pointing out he is twice the coach the savior Butch Jones is. Anyone that can go to a bowl 3 straight years including wins over UGA and Florida and a 9 win season at Vanderbilt deserves credit.
 
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#90
#90
fade route said:
You and I agree on most issues, but seems I'm a little bit higher on Butch than you are. Honest question - do you think we've seen the best we're gonna get out of Jones? I don't. I just think too many people are jumping ship way too early.
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Right now, Butch's biggest glaring issue is some of the staff he brought in

Most of us never even heard of Bajakian before his name was brought up.

We knew of Jancek only because he was fired at Georgia

Right now, I'm going to see how Butch handles Bajakian and Jancek if we come out and **** the bed next year on O and D

After that, if they do **** the bed and he doesn't make a move, then he will need to go
 
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#91
#91
Rickmanvol said:
Folks need hope going into next season and Butch has done very little on the field to give fans hope. Can you get excited about the offense next season? Losing every linemen although over rated will be tough. The QB situation if anything looks worse. Defensively, we are losing 6? defensive lineman not much hope there either. The point is Butch has not proven he can coach'em up. The talent coming in should help but Butch needs to figure out to win with what he has. Other coaches seem to win with talent comparable to ours.

Butch was out coached by Vandy with an extra week of prep. The fanbase should never be happy with what happened Saturday night.
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This is exactly how I feel.

I am not ready to run CBJ out of town. I believe it is possible for him to do well. I have repeatedly posted in his defense, and I cannot turn on him now. He has already done a number of things that I wholeheartedly approve of. He has - or at least had - restored a great deal of the energy and swagger of the Vol fan base.

Plus, It wouldn't matter if I was against him. He's going to be the coach for the next 4-5 years as along as he doesn't get caught cheating or some grand scandal happens.

But, Saturday's game SERIOUSLY damaged my confidence in the staff. If you look at the circumstances and are willing to simply dismiss that loss to whatever inability you see in the players, you aren't being fair to them or yourself as a fan.

Vandy showed up as a well-coached but marginally talented team - in our house -and then proceeded to make every mistake a team needs to make to lose a football game. For the other loses this year, the other team took the victory from us (except maybe Fla to some degree) but in this game, it was willingly given to them by us.

Without regard to what the coaches stated afterward, the team was flat, tentative and displayed a general sense of unpreparedness. It is absolutely reasonable to attribute that to the coaching staff. Remember that the season is three months in, a lot of the "newness" of things ought to have sunk in by now.

There's a fine line between "bashing" and criticism, and it's not the same for everyone. So, whatever you call it, it is much deserved, IMO.

The most disheartening thing of all for me is that after yet another season, I have no more confidence that the program is returning to some level of excellence. I am optimistic by nature, but confidence comes from evidence. This season, the evidence has fallen on both sides of the scale fairly equally. CBJ has done some great things, and he has done many other things poorly. So, I find myself another year passed with them same skeptical "wait and see" attitude I had the day they walked Dooley out the door.
 
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#92
#92
SaintLouisVol said:
He's going to be the coach for the next 4-5 years as along as he doesn't get caught cheating or some grand scandal happens.
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Around here losing to Vandy and/or UK is GRAND scandal. Check with Dooley and he'll confirm it :cray:
 
#93
#93
This is going to get interesting because you probably will not see a great deal of improvement next year because the incoming recruits will require time to develop their ability to a collegiate level. Hopefully there will be a few who can contribute as true freshmen but that is not a certainty. One thing that is for certain will be the continued entertainment value of VolNation as the program slowly progresses.
 
#94
#94
sjt18 said:
Yes. Based on talent, UT should have beaten VU by 3 TD's. Excuses have been used ad nauseum for how UT should not have competed with Bama, Auburn, Oregon,... because of "speed and talent". Well, UT has more speed and talent than VU and it ain't real close.

What's the excuse now
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let's take it a little deeper than the "talent" issue.

VU was playing minus all 4 of its starting DBs. and iirc they also lost a starting LB. they turned the ball over 3, or was it 4, times and two of those turnovers essentially took away TDs.

UT had home field advantage, and was perfectly set up to wax the commode doors and ride a wave of momentum on to a bowl game and into 2014.

instead, according to tim priest, "the entire UT team was sleep walking through the first half." poor clock management gave VU an extra 80 seconds or so for their winning drive. UT could not get a yard for a first down that would have iced the game, calling for a run play with the RB starting 9 yards behind the line of scrimmage. and on and on.

if Randy Sanders (remember him?) can coach up Ric Clausen to play 2004 Auburn (one of the strongest SEC defenses that I have seen) to a tie through 3 quarters of the SECC game then it is certainly reasonable to expect Barcalounger and the rest of the Greatest Coaching Staff in America to be able, with two solid weeks of prep time, to coach up their hand picked freshman QB to a competitive level against iffing Vanderbilt.

CBJ might be the messiah, and i hope that he is, but the crapfest against VU was a pretty damning indictment.
 
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#95
#95
MedicT said:
This is going to get interesting because you probably will not see a great deal of improvement next year because the incoming recruits will require time to develop QUOTE]

You raise the most critical point. Because if CBJ would have brought in proven SEC quality (or NFL) staff, then it would be easier to patiently wait for the recruits to develop (because the fans would not have to wonder whether we are getting blown out because of youth or because the staff is over their head). I was a CDD supporter largely because I had confidence in his initial staff (especially on offensive side), so that made it easier to wait for our offensive talent to develop (future seemed very bright with Charlie Bagget coaching Hunter, D Rogers, and Chaney coaching Bray (given Chaney had Drew Brees on his resume).
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#96
#96
I actually thought Vandy would win 31-13. I thought they would come in and use those 2 running backs in the wildcat and kill up on the corners just like Auburn did. They pulled the wildcat in the second half of the USCe game and almost won.

After watching the game my frustration has to do with an incompetent coaching staff that does not know how to use the talent they have. Any coaching staff that has that much experience on the OL and can not figure what to do with it is incompetent. Butch should have retained Pittman. He knew what he was doing.

And I will say that the fake field goal was the stupidest decision of the 2013 SEC season by any coach. Butch wants to be Les Miles but he is not that lucky.

On my assessment of the season the coaching staff is the only reason this team is not in a bowl game. The staff lost the UGA and Vandy games with poor coaching decisions.
 
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#97
#97
onevol74 said:
I actually thought Vandy would win 31-13. I thought they would come in and use those 2 running backs in the wildcat and kill up on the corners just like Auburn did. They pulled the wildcat in the second half of the USCe game and almost won.

After watching the game my frustration has to do with an incompetent coaching staff that does not know how to use the talent they have. Any coaching staff that has that much experience on the OL and can not figure what to do with it is incompetent. Butch should have retained Pittman. He knew what he was doing.

And I will say that the fake field goal was the stupidest decision of the 2013 SEC season by any coach. Butch wants to be Les Miles but he is not that lucky.

On my assessment of the season the coaching staff is the only reason this team is not in a bowl game. The staff lost the UGA and Vandy games with poor coaching decisions.
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Haven't you heard college football is 100% about players and coaches have nothing to do with the product on the field? Coaches recruit then their job is done with that group of young men.
 
#98
#98
volfanjustin said:
Haven't you heard college football is 100% about players and coaches have nothing to do with the product on the field? Coaches recruit then their job is done with that group of young men.
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Then why are we paying $3mil a year for the idiots we have now? From your perspective all we need is a good marketing department to bring players in.
 
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