Bernie Sanders Thread

#1,351
#1,351
Capitalism and Socialism have been happy bedfellows since Teddy Roosevelt, as an conservationist Teddy is why we have National Parks. FDR had the New Deal, Truman had the Fair Deal. Eisenhower expanded Social Security and built massive infrastructure. Then came LBJ's Great Society. ALL VERY SUCCESSFUL social democracy programs. Socialism in America is nothing new. It's not defined by party issue, but is a we the people ideal. We just haven't developed the concept as well as we could and should to protect our citizens.
 
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#1,352
#1,352
dduncan4163 said:
Capitalism and Socialism have been happy bedfellows since Teddy Roosevelt, as an conservationist Teddy is why we have National Parks. FDR had the New Deal, Truman had the Fair Deal. Eisenhower expanded Social Security and built massive infrastructure. Then came LBJ's Great Society. ALL VERY SUCCESSFUL social democracy programs. Socialism in America is nothing new. It's not defined by party issue, but is a we the people ideal. We just haven't developed the concept as well as we could and should to protect our citizens.
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This point and that video will fall on deaf ears here. I've made the same discussion for months and all I get is a bunch of guys saying they're tired of paying for lazy people's problems while, on the other hand, being perfectly okay with other people subsidizing their lives with roads, education, social security, police protection, fire departments, military, etc.
 
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#1,353
#1,353
dduncan4163 said:
Capitalism and Socialism have been happy bedfellows since Teddy Roosevelt, as an conservationist Teddy is why we have National Parks. FDR had the New Deal, Truman had the Fair Deal. Eisenhower expanded Social Security and built massive infrastructure. Then came LBJ's Great Society. ALL VERY SUCCESSFUL social democracy programs. Socialism in America is nothing new. It's not defined by party issue, but is a we the people ideal. We just haven't developed the concept as well as we could and should to protect our citizens.
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All but Teddy was Dem and none of the programs you have listed could be labeled successful. Even the creation of National Parks and Monuments by TR while on face value looks good, it has been used repeatedly to expand government overreach.
 
#1,354
#1,354
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
This point and that video will fall on deaf ears here. I've made the same discussion for months and all I get is a bunch of guys saying they're tired of paying for lazy people's problems while, on the other hand, being perfectly okay with other people subsidizing their lives with roads, education, social security, police protection, fire departments, military, etc.
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How can you claim welfare is the same thing as roads?
 
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#1,356
#1,356
gasguy98 said:
How can you claim welfare is the same thing as roads?
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"Welfare is the provision of a minimal level of well-being and social support for all citizens, sometimes referred to as public aid."

Roads are public goods provided by all, for all. Your welfare (health, well-being, happiness) has been preserved by roads paid for by more people than you, and by roads you've not contributed a cent to. Your home will be quickly saved by the fire department, in case of a fire, as they travel on those roads. The goods and services that make your life better and/or make you money, as a possible business owner, are shipped to consumers and the marketplace via roads. So yeah, roads are a form of social welfare.
 
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#1,357
#1,357
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
"Welfare is the provision of a minimal level of well-being and social support for all citizens, sometimes referred to as public aid."

Roads are public goods provided by all, for all. Your welfare (health, well-being, happiness) has been preserved by roads paid for by more people than you, and by roads you've not contributed a cent to. Your home will be quickly saved by the fire department, in case of a fire, as they travel on those roads. The goods and services that make your life better and/or make you money, as a possible business owner, are shipped to consumers and the marketplace via roads. So yeah, roads are a form of social welfare.
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That sounds an awful lot like Obama's "You didn't build that" line of utter horse poo.

Apparently, neither of you understand that "general welfare" and "welfare check" are two completely different concepts.
 
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#1,358
#1,358
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
"Welfare is the provision of a minimal level of well-being and social support for all citizens, sometimes referred to as public aid."

Roads are public goods provided by all, for all. Your welfare (health, well-being, happiness) has been preserved by roads paid for by more people than you, and by roads you've not contributed a cent to. Your home will be quickly saved by the fire department, in case of a fire, as they travel on those roads. The goods and services that make your life better and/or make you money, as a possible business owner, are shipped to consumers and the marketplace via roads. So yeah, roads are a form of social welfare.
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Is that you Elizabeth?
 
#1,359
#1,359
MG1968 said:
That sounds an awful lot like Obama's "You didn't build that" line of utter horse poo.

Apparently, neither of you understand that "general welfare" and "welfare check" are two completely different concepts.
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Nobody wants to admit that the President and Elizabeth Warren are somewhat correct in their statements, but did the person who "built that" honestly do it entirely on their own? No, they didn't. If you're a carpenter, you learned the Pythagorean theorem from your geometry teacher, learned how to read and write blueprints from your construction teacher or whoever you apprencticed under. You didn't develop the idea of how homes are built, nor did you invent the hammer and nail. You didn't learn how to read and do measurements without the help of someone else. You don't get to work on roads you paved yourself. The list goes on and on.

Of course people work hard, and some harder than others, but nobody got to where they are without standing on the shoulders of others. That's what they meant by their comments.

And yes, there is a difference between general welfare and welfare checks, but to say that welfare for the poor, middle class, the rich, or even corporations, isn't welfare, is ridiculous.
 
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#1,360
#1,360
dduncan4163 said:
Capitalism and Socialism have been happy bedfellows since Teddy Roosevelt, as an conservationist Teddy is why we have National Parks. FDR had the New Deal, Truman had the Fair Deal. Eisenhower expanded Social Security and built massive infrastructure. Then came LBJ's Great Society. ALL VERY SUCCESSFUL social democracy programs. Socialism in America is nothing new. It's not defined by party issue, but is a we the people ideal. We just haven't developed the concept as well as we could and should to protect our citizens.
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These examples aren't socialism - they are socialistic at best.

Likewise, we don't have true capitalism though we are closer to it than we are to socialism.

I'd also argue that VERY SUCCESSFUL is an overstatement of the Great Society program. Given one key goal was to reduce the poverty rate (which remains basically unchanged) it's hard to call it a success.
 
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#1,361
#1,361
When a big corporation or bank receives bailouts or subsidies or special legislative favors, that is corporate welfare, but nobody bats an eye. Despite those people not needing welfare, they're defended as being "job creators."

If someone is physically or mentally incapable of working, or down on their luck, or they didn't grow up with the same support structure as others, people lose their minds and nobody gives a damn about them. They're deemed worthless to society because they haven't achieved the same success as all of the rugged individuals here who had no help whatsoever in the attainment of their success /blue font.

I love aspects of capitalism and socialism and I understand and admit that they exist together for the betterment of our country.
 
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#1,362
#1,362
volinbham said:
These examples aren't socialism - they are socialistic at best.

Likewise, we don't have true capitalism though we are closer to it than we are to socialism.

I'd also argue that VERY SUCCESSFUL is an overstatement of the Great Society program. Given one key goal was to reduce the poverty rate (which remains basically unchanged) it's hard to call it a success.
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The Great Society definitely wasn't perfect, but there were some great things that came from it!

Vocational Education Act
Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Higher Education Act
Child Nutrion Act
National School Lunch Act
Clean Air Act
Medicaid and Medicare
Head Start
National Endowment of the Arts and Humanities
 
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#1,364
#1,364
UTCVol said:
He is a master at not answering questions, I'll give him that. Maher was actually trying to do him a kindness by giving him a platform and he still is unable to explain it adequately.
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Yep, Bernie reminds me of Ron Paul, in that regard. They both have great ideas, they just have a difficult time articulating it. Maher understands where Bernie stands, as does anyone who really follows the guy, he just needs to learn how to put his ideas out to the public.

Bernie isn't a socialist in the negative sense the word has been labeled. He doesn't believe in the nationalization of industries, for example. He is a democratic socialist capitalist, as this article describes. But I agree, he needs to clarify this.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/2...ist.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/
 
#1,365
#1,365
hog88 said:
All but Teddy was Dem and none of the programs you have listed could be labeled successful. Even the creation of National Parks and Monuments by TR while on face value looks good, it has been used repeatedly to expand government overreach.
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Eisenhower would disagree
 
#1,366
#1,366
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
The Great Society definitely wasn't perfect, but there were some great things that came from it!

Vocational Education Act
Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Higher Education Act
Child Nutrion Act
National School Lunch Act
Clean Air Act
Medicaid and Medicare
Head Start
National Endowment of the Arts and Humanities
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Any number of which could have been handled by the individual states without having to launder trillions of taxpayer dollars through a massive federal bureaucracy.
 
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#1,367
#1,367
dduncan4163 said:
. Then came LBJ's Great Society. ALL VERY SUCCESSFUL social democracy programs. Socialism in America is nothing new. It's not defined by party issue, but is a we the people ideal. We just haven't developed the concept as well as we could and should to protect our citizens.
Click to expand...

LOL. Okay :crazy:
 
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#1,368
#1,368
MG1968 said:
That sounds an awful lot like Obama's "You didn't build that" line of utter horse poo.

Apparently, neither of you understand that "general welfare" and "welfare check" are two completely different concepts.
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So there shouldn't be a safety net for the very poor? I agree that there are and will always be a small number of people that will abuse the system but they are and have always been a huge minority of Welfare benefits. I'm not going to let Jimbos children go without food water and shelter just because he may be a lazy moocher. If all the things that my tax dollars funds that angers me welfare and foodstamps just ain't one of them. Hell every person I know that is on Foodstamps WIC and Welfare are either Old, A single mother, or disabled and none of them live high on the hog with what they get.
 
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#1,369
#1,369
dduncan4163 said:
So there shouldn't be a safety net for the very poor? I agree that there are and will always be a small number of people that will abuse the system but they are and have always been a huge minority of Welfare benefits. I'm not going to let Jimbos children go without food water and shelter just because he may be a lazy moocher. If all the things that my tax dollars funds that angers me welfare and foodstamps just ain't one of them. Hell every person I know that is on Foodstamps WIC and Welfare are either Old, A single mother, or disabled and none of them live high on the hog with what they get.
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Did I say that? Have I ever said that?

no, and no
 
#1,371
#1,371
MG1968 said:
Any number of which could have been handled by the individual states without having to launder trillions of taxpayer dollars through a massive federal bureaucracy.
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Alabama and Mississippi definitely should have been left alone to implement Civil Rights and Voters Rights legislation 👍🏻
 
#1,373
#1,373
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
The Great Society definitely wasn't perfect, but there were some great things that came from it!

Vocational Education Act
Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Higher Education Act
Child Nutrion Act
National School Lunch Act
Clean Air Act
Medicaid and Medicare
Head Start
National Endowment of the Arts and Humanities
Click to expand...

Literally the only one worth a sh!t and he people it intended to help don't even use it. School lunch? Were you home schooled?? I used to get spaghetti served to me out of a can..OUT OF A CAN...in school.
 
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