Bill's (Experts Only) Baseball Discussion Thread

#1,201
#1,201
@GordonC, I was trying to brush up more on the ruling and I saw clips where it was being called in the 1920s, just maybe not by name. But, it definitely appears it’s not a “stat”, just a ruling. That would explain why it’s not in box scores. It’s a judgement call too.

I brought this up with 82 a few weeks ago, but nothing bothers me more in baseball scoring than protecting pitchers and counting wild pitches as passed balls against the catcher, or, although more rare, vice versa. I have seen great jumps get the defensive indifference call, and that bothers me too. There needs to be more definition imo. It’s unbelievably subjective as written. If the pitcher just isn’t paying attention and the runner jumps off that, I’d call SB all day, regardless of circumstances. Not everyone agrees with that though. Note, I’m saying the runner gets such a jump off an inattentive pitcher that’s there’s no play for the catcher to even make.
 
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#1,202
#1,202
And tbf, it’s really hard to make the wild pitch vs passed ball call from a booth behind home plate with the catcher, batter, ump and backstop all obstructing the view, so I get that and understand that in a lot of situations in lower levels where replay isn’t an easy option.
 
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#1,203
#1,203
volfanbill said:
@GordonC, I was trying to brush up more on the ruling and I saw clips where it was being called in the 1920s, just maybe not by name. But, it definitely appears it’s not a “stat”, just a ruling. That would explain why it’s not in box scores. It’s a judgement call too.

I brought this up with 82 a few weeks ago, but nothing bothers me more in baseball scoring than protecting pitchers and counting wild pitches as passed balls against the catcher, or, although more rare, vice versa. I have seen great jumps get the defensive indifference call, and that bothers me too. There needs to be more definition imo. It’s unbelievably subjective as written. If the pitcher just isn’t paying attention and the runner jumps off that, I’d call SB all day, regardless of circumstances. Not everyone agrees with that though. Note, I’m saying the runner gets such a jump off an inattentive pitcher that’s there’s no play for the catcher to even make.
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tl;dr

Right, but SB would be a stat, and ruling the "indifference" would affect a player's SB total.

The fact that you're a huge Rickey Henderson fan is one of the reasons I asked you about this hahaha. Do you ever remember RH not being awarded the SB on something like this? Because we know there were times that teams didn't even make an effort to throw RH, Raines, Brock, Morgan, Coleman, etc., out going to second if the game wasn't on the line.

Sometimes, even with multiple views, the WP-PB can be difficult to determine.

mild rant warning and NFAFT what I thank:
I might be the only one here (and not just here in the Zone) who thinks this: but I hope they leave some things a little subjective in the rules (as a matter of principle), simply because we have codified and quantified and made every human endeavor into a dam measurable, objective policy with a "metric" of some sort (even when humans are "at play.") Then again, I'm constantly amazed at people who seem capable of using good judgment in general.
 
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#1,205
#1,205
GordonC said:
tl;dr

Right, but SB would be a stat, and ruling the "indifference" would affect a player's SB total.

The fact that you're a huge Rickey Henderson fan is one of the reasons I asked you about this hahaha. Do you ever remember RH not being awarded the SB on something like this? Because we know there were times that teams didn't even make an effort to throw RH, Raines, Brock, Morgan, Coleman, etc., out going to second if the game wasn't on the line.
Click to expand...
Actually stumbled across this article this morning when I was looking it up more. Deep into the article it mentions they called it against him when he was a Yankee. I don’t remember any instances personally though. But again, I primarily only got to follow via newspaper box scores and it wouldn’t have been there.

www.nytimes.com

Safe at Second, but No Stolen Base to Show for It (Published 2009)

Defensive indifference, a sleepy but established rule that has been in Major League Baseball for 89 years, keeps players’ stolen-base totals down.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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#1,206
#1,206
And I definitely agree there needs to be judgement calls. Just more clarity on how to do some of them. If you don’t throw to second out of fear of the double steal with the guy at third coming home, totally not a steal. The decision as to my example just needs to be clearer imo. Like if you’ve looked the guy back a time or two, or especially if you’ve actually thrown to the bag, it’s an obvious steal.
 
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#1,207
#1,207
volfanbill said:
Actually stumbled across this article this morning when I was looking it up more. Deep into the article it mentions they called it against him when he was a Yankee. I don’t remember any instances personally though. But again, I primarily only got to follow via newspaper box scores and it wouldn’t have been there.

www.nytimes.com

Safe at Second, but No Stolen Base to Show for It (Published 2009)

Defensive indifference, a sleepy but established rule that has been in Major League Baseball for 89 years, keeps players’ stolen-base totals down.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
I want to talk to the person who keeps the books/score for the baseball team at school about this now. hahahahaha

I'm simply curious and don't mean to be obtuse here, but you're very observant about the game. This never came up to your knowledge when you were in the PA booth and around the JCC?
 
#1,208
#1,208
GordonC said:
I want to talk to the person who keeps the books/score for the baseball team at school about this now. hahahahaha

I'm simply curious and don't mean to be obtuse here, but you're very observant about the game. This never came up to your knowledge when you were in the PA booth and around the JCC?
Click to expand...
Oh we debated it a lot.
 
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#1,212
#1,212
95 Vol Alum said:
I thought it was mostly indifference when the scoring margin was high and the leading team didn’t care about moving a RISP.
Click to expand...
based on what I saw last night, yeah that's what I gathered
The Reds were up 5-2, not a "high scoring margin" really, but Boston had a runner on first with two outs.
 
#1,213
#1,213
95 Vol Alum said:
I thought it was mostly indifference when the scoring margin was high and the leading team didn’t care about moving a RISP.
Click to expand...
GordonC said:
based on what I saw last night, yeah that's what I gathered
The Reds were up 5-2, not a "high scoring margin" really, but Boston had a runner on first with two outs.
Click to expand...
It’s typically if the runner doesn’t affect the lead. So 3 run lead, two outs, that runner doesn’t matter at all. But I’ve seen it in other situations
 
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#1,214
#1,214
GordonC said:
tl;dr

Right, but SB would be a stat, and ruling the "indifference" would affect a player's SB total.

The fact that you're a huge Rickey Henderson fan is one of the reasons I asked you about this hahaha. Do you ever remember RH not being awarded the SB on something like this? Because we know there were times that teams didn't even make an effort to throw RH, Raines, Brock, Morgan, Coleman, etc., out going to second if the game wasn't on the line.

Sometimes, even with multiple views, the WP-PB can be difficult to determine.

mild rant warning and NFAFT what I thank:
I might be the only one here (and not just here in the Zone) who thinks this: but I hope they leave some things a little subjective in the rules (as a matter of principle), simply because we have codified and quantified and made every human endeavor into a dam measurable, objective policy with a "metric" of some sort (even when humans are "at play.") Then again, I'm constantly amazed at people who seem capable of using good judgment in general.
Click to expand...
- and it was YOU PEOPLE who inflicted “rubrics” upon the rest of the world!! 🤬😉
 
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#1,215
#1,215
VolNExile said:
- and it was YOU PEOPLE who inflicted “rubrics” upon the rest of the world!! 🤬😉
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NGAFT but hahaha I refuse to use that word....after all these years I am amazed at the idiocy of people who try to quantify creative expression

Bill's gon be mayud as a fahr truck that we derailed his baseball tread...hope he don't get two bowed up about it
 
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#1,221
#1,221
volfanbill said:
I gots a new army assignment and it’s covering all hush hush can’t tell nobody stuff and thus can’t have smart watch (or phone) 8-9 hours out of the day.

I need to find a good dumb watch to at least count my steps
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Bummer.

Poriylzz on Amazon says it a best seller. $13. Tells time. Counts steps and calories. No app needed. Plain Jane.
 
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#1,224
#1,224
VolNExile said:
Did you ever figure out how to sleep?
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Last night or in general?

Last night, no, please wasn’t even possible.

In general, I’ve gotten a lot better thanks to 10mg of doxepin and two herbal supplements

Edit: still doing good for my watch to say I’m in the 80s, but my REM and deep sleep numbers have gone up
 
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#1,225
#1,225
volfanbill said:
Last night or in general?

Last night, no, please wasn’t even possible.

In general, I’ve gotten a lot better thanks to 10mg of doxepin and two herbal supplements

Edit: still doing good for my watch to say I’m in the 80s, but my REM and deep sleep numbers have gone up
Click to expand...
I meant in general. Good to hear! Some of the numbers you were posting were pretty bad (total sleep, deep sleep.)

My deep sleep minutes are all over the map, and I still can’t figure why.
 
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