Border Fence

#151
#151
85SugarVol said:
Sure. But what kind of countries we talking?

We hear variants of “no other advanced country on earth deals with X” from people usually screaming about guns.

Is there another “advanced country” on earth with a controlled border as porous as our southern border?
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Canada
 
#158
#158
Hunerwadel said:
Well, I'm pretty sure they don't like Russians. Our local Putinistas will argue all day that the Russian people are a race.
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Oh the Finns hate the Russians (I realize that’s not news to you).

The Russians have overrun that border once or twice in the past. Can’t blame the Finns taking action in light of their own history, and the Russians overrunning the Ukrainian border.
 
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#164
#164
85SugarVol said:
I would argue walls are “less effective”, not “ineffective”, as a stand alone.

Raise a 30 ft wall anywhere, and it will impact crossing.

Drones & Sensors were not at the disposal of the Romans or Chinese either.
The ability to simply patrol via motorized vehicle was a capability they lacked as well.
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Good points. Fair.
We would need to establish the concept for the wall to determine effectiveness. For example, is it to prevent border crossing completely, or to slow them down enough on their side for agents to confront, slow them down so agents can apprehend on our side, or so they are easier to track and apprehend as they advance a few hundred yards into America?

Force multipliers like drones, vehicles, etc would undoubtedly decrease the number of attendants per mile. But again, the final impact and count of guards would still vary based on the concept for the purpose of the wall.

It would also be necessary to evaluate how many seconds are required to breech the wall to further estimate the number of people required.
 
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#165
#165
McDad said:
Good points. Fair.
We would need to establish the concept for the wall to determine effectiveness. For example, is it to prevent border crossing completely, or to slow them down enough on their side for agents to confront, slow them down so agents can apprehend on our side, or so they are easier to track and apprehend as they advance a few hundred yards into America?

Force multipliers like drones, vehicles, etc would undoubtedly decrease the number of attendants per mile. But again, the final impact and count of guards would still vary based on the concept for the purpose of the wall.

It would also be necessary to evaluate how many seconds are required to breech the wall to further estimate the number of people required.
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We will never stop illegal border crossing, save for ND’s land mined no-man’s land.

And even with a border structure, there will still be individuals that scale it - no matter how big you make it.

Not sure how we would define “success”, and that discussion in and of itself would devolve into politics.
“If it saves/stops just one, it’s worth it” would no doubt be trotted out mockingly.

Would have to be something that is actually track-able, not estimates. Known got-aways?
 
#166
#166
Border security is important I'll never argue otherwise. But I don't think as many bad guys have snuck in as ones that come legally. 9-11 tragedy wasn't south Americans.
 
#168
#168
85SugarVol said:
Are you saying there are millions of aliens illegally flowing over Canada’s border? I have not seen those numbers. Can you share?
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Obviously not since the migrants all come from the south, not the Arctic. If Mexico and Central America were north of Canada, then, yea, it's border would be a problem. Migration has become a very serious issue, obviously. Too many dysfunctional countries, and too many people in those countries trying to flee to more stable countries. The dysfunctional countries need to be fixed--not easily done--and migrants have to be strongly informed that they should not be coming to America or other countries. And I believe we been trying to make that message, but desperate people are not easily dissuaded.

And, yea, I think it's been true in the past and may still be true that most illegals in America come in legally with visas and then just stay--disappear into the country.
 
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#169
#169
turbovol said:
Obviously not since the migrants all come from the south, not the Arctic. If Mexico and Central America were north of Canada, then, yea, it's border would be a problem. Migration has become a very serious issue, obviously. Too many dysfunctional countries, and too many people in those countries trying to flee to more stable countries. The dysfunctional countries need to be fixed--not easily done--and migrants have to be strongly informed that they should not be coming to America or other countries. And I believe we been trying to make that message, but desperate people are not easily dissuaded.

And, yea, I think it's been true in the past and may still be true that most illegals in America come in legally with visas and then just stay--disappear into the country.
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Strongly informed?
And how have we been trying to “make the message” that they should not be coming?
 
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#173
#173
swampfoxfan said:
Border security is important I'll never argue otherwise. But I don't think as many bad guys have snuck in as ones that come legally. 9-11 tragedy wasn't south Americans.
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When millions pour in you have a large number that can be from anywhere…. Duh
 
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#174
#174
 
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#175
#175
85SugarVol said:
We will never stop illegal border crossing, save for ND’s land mined no-man’s land.

And even with a border structure, there will still be individuals that scale it - no matter how big you make it.

Not sure how we would define “success”, and that discussion in and of itself would devolve into politics.
“If it saves/stops just one, it’s worth it” would no doubt be trotted out mockingly.

Would have to be something that is actually track-able, not estimates. Known got-aways?
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If we cannot stop it, would the wall be viable and cost-effective to slow it down? Curtail it by a percentage? Increase immediate apprehensions and deportations?

"Build the wall" is sloganeering. Objectively looking at the intended purpose, the metrics for efficacy, and the cost to achieve satisfactory results is a discussion few seem willing to have.
 
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