Bowl Game question… (Hyatt sitting out?)

[VFL-82-JP]

If you have a chance to play professionally and your college team isnt in the playoffs, you should opt out of bowl games.

I disagree.

Live life to the fullest. Don't cower in the corner afraid something bad will happen.

Playing football with friends, teammates, brothers is one of the great joys in life. Never sit those out when you have the chance to join in. That's true in pop warner, high school, college, and professional life.

The next thing will come in its own time. Don't rush it, and don't abandon what you have now anticipating it.

break/break

As for the other folks in this thread saying non-playoff bowl games don't mean anything, I disagree again.

Every game our team plays counts. It counts for the university, it counts for the players and coaches, and it counts for us fans. It counts in the record books. It counts in recruiting.

Play the bowl games, lads, for yourself and your teammates and all of Vol Nation. I know some might opt out, and will still wish them the best even if; but hope none do.

Go Vols!

 

[Voltopia]

Sitting is quitting. The reasons for the quitting can be good or bad or whatever - but sitting is quitting.

 

[McDad]

I still have some old school in me and believe in finishing what you started so I don't think players should opt out. I don't hold it against the ones that do because as you pointed out they are looking at their future.

I understand the sentiment. If the risks were nominal, I would also default to living up to your commitment. I draw the line personally when my health, reputation, or ethics are involved.

 

[McDad]

I disagree.

Live life to the fullest. Don't cower in the corner afraid something bad will happen.

Playing football with friends, teammates, brothers is one of the great joys in life. Never sit those out when you have the chance to join in. That's true in pop warner, high school, college, and professional life.

The next thing will come in its own time. Don't rush it, and don't abandon what you have now anticipating it.

break/break

As for the other folks in this thread saying non-playoff bowl games don't mean anything, I disagree again.

Every game our team plays counts. It counts for the university, it counts for the players and coaches, and it counts for us fans. It counts in the record books. It counts in recruiting.

Play the bowl games, lads, for yourself and your teammates and all of Vol Nation. I know some might opt out, and will still wish them the best even if; but hope none do.

Go Vols!

This is a child's approach to life. Adults should look at risk and manage it accordingly. You use a seat belt everyday you drive because of what might happen. Is that cowering in the corner? No, that is preparation for the unthinkable and unlikely.
Would I risk a potential multi million dollar deal to play 4 more hours of football? Not a chance in hell. The risk / reward to me is off the scale as a bad decision.

 

[hog88]

I understand the sentiment. If the risks were nominal, I would also default to living up to your commitment. I draw the line personally when my health, reputation, or ethics are involved.

I don't have a problem with guys weighing their options and deciding to sit out. Gotta put family and self future first. I wish it wasn't even a discussion but it's the reality of our time now.

 

[hog88]

I almost wish (ALMOST) bowl games were done away with. Expand the playoffs to 16 teams and give all the others left out the same amount of practice time.

 

[Behr]

This is a child's approach to life. Adults should look at risk and manage it accordingly. You use a seat belt everyday you drive because of what might happen. Is that cowering in the corner? No, that is preparation for the unthinkable and unlikely.
Would I risk a potential multi million dollar deal to play 4 more hours of football? Not a chance in hell. The risk / reward to me is off the scale as a bad decision.

I used to feel differently, but yeah. A few hours of football to risk life changing, not just for you, opportunities...yeah. No.

 

[Stephen Gray]

I understand the decision but it feels different to me the deciding to not return the next season to go pro. Yes it is a risk, as is every game, but the post season is the culmination of a team’s work that year.

I know a lot of kids sit out the bowl so apparently it’s okay with NFL GMs. I’m not one of those and never will be, so it doesn’t mean much for me to say it, but if I was deciding on who to pick, a kid who didn’t play his bowl when he was healthy would get a little negative mark. Might still them choose them, ultimately, but it would be a factor.

Of course it’s silly speculation on my part, but I am surprised at least some people don’t value it more at that level.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

This is a child's approach to life. Adults should look at risk and manage it accordingly. You use a seat belt everyday you drive because of what might happen. Is that cowering in the corner? No, that is preparation for the unthinkable and unlikely.
Would I risk a potential multi million dollar deal to play 4 more hours of football? Not a chance in hell. The risk / reward to me is off the scale as a bad decision.

There's nothing childish about commitment to others, and to your team. There is nothing childish about living life to the fullest. There is nothing childish about courage.

In response to Hog, you said something about how you agree with him unless your health, reputation, or ethics are on the line. A big part of ethics for many people is loyalty. Another important value for some people is selflessness. Duty. Courage. These values, these ethics, all argue in favor of the lads seeing it through.

Sure, there are other ethics/values that might argue in favor of sitting it out. Taking care of one's family by maximizing chances of a big payday, for instance. I get that the ethics can cut both ways. But most of the ones Americans traditionally value most highly, they point toward staying on the team.

Since reputation doesn't come into play in this particular matter, the only consideration left of the three you mentioned is health. Protect your health by not playing football. But if you're going down that road, might as well go ALL the WAY down it. Just quit football for good, because it's not a very healthy way to make a living.

Do you begin to see the faults in this viewpoint, McDad?

 

[sjt18]

Just read that Hyatt signed an NIL deal with Bose.

To me, that indicates that he has not made a final decision yet... at worst. It could also mean that he's trying to find enough NIL money to let him play another year in college without sacrificing his payday.

As for "he could get hurt"... he can get a Lloyd's insurance policy if the NIL money works. He could just as easily suffer a career ending injury playing his first season in the NFL... probably more likely.

 

[amstelman]

So if your team is in the playoffs, you have to play. If your team is in a NY6 bowl or less, you may want to consider sitting out.

There should be some way for these potential NFL players (without cost to them) to take out a policy to protect future earnings in the event of any major, post-season injury.

Perhaps the universities pay for a policy covering 1, 2 or 3 games. Could be a recruiting plus.

Does HH having an ACL lower his draft position? Possibly. Does that cost him future earnings? Quite possibly. Could a risk manager place a value on that? That's how insurance companies make their money.

Maybe this mechanism is already in place and I just don't know about it. If so, educate me!

 

[ETV]

I randomly speculate the CJH quits. Wants to devote all his time to his model airplane hobby.

Pffft. More random speculation with no evidence. Everyone already knows, his hobby is with model boats.

 

[Stephen Gray]

So if your team is in the playoffs, you have to play. If your team is in a NY6 bowl or less, you may want to consider sitting out.

There should be some way for these potential NFL players (without cost to them) to take out a policy to protect future earnings in the event of any major, post-season injury.

Perhaps the universities pay for a policy covering 1, 2 or 3 games. Could be a recruiting plus.

Does HH having an ACL lower his draft position? Possibly. Does that cost him future earnings? Quite possibly. Could a risk manager place a value on that? That's how insurance companies make their money.

Maybe this mechanism is already in place and I just don't know about it. If so, educate me!

It’s a great question and I’d like to know too.

 

[McDad]

I almost wish (ALMOST) bowl games were done away with. Expand the playoffs to 16 teams and give all the others left out the same amount of practice time.

Something like this is a smart option.

 

[sjt18]

This is a child's approach to life. Adults should look at risk and manage it accordingly. You use a seat belt everyday you drive because of what might happen. Is that cowering in the corner? No, that is preparation for the unthinkable and unlikely.
Would I risk a potential multi million dollar deal to play 4 more hours of football? Not a chance in hell. The risk / reward to me is off the scale as a bad decision.

But that depends completely on your assumption that the risk of injury is high. Hooker suffered a non-contact injury. The same thing could have happened in practice or on Pro Day.

Tillman suffered a high ankle sprain early in the season. His injury is more damaging to his draft prospects than a similar injury to Hyatt in a bowl game.

Your concern is the risk of having a career ending injury. Could it happen? Obviously yes. But how frequently does it happen? Not very.

I understand cutting the risk to zero... but some people value other things more.

 

[hog88]

There's nothing childish about commitment to others, and to your team. There is nothing childish about living life to the fullest. There is nothing childish about courage.

In response to Hog, you said something about how you agree with him unless your health, reputation, or ethics are on the line. A big part of ethics for many people is loyalty. Another important value for some people is selflessness. Duty. Courage. These values, these ethics, all argue in favor of the lads seeing it through.

Sure, there are other ethics/values that might argue in favor of sitting it out. Taking care of one's family by maximizing chances of a big payday, for instance. I get that the ethics can cut both ways. But most of the ones Americans traditionally value most highly, they point toward staying on the team.

Since reputation doesn't come into play in this particular matter, the only consideration left of the three you mentioned is health. Protect your health by not playing football. But if you're going down that road, might as well go ALL the WAY down it. Just quit football for good, because it's not a very healthy way to make a living.

Do you begin to see the faults in this viewpoint, McDad?

I have to take issue with the bold part of your post. Health at the time of the draft is hugely important to their draft position which translates to signing bonus, this is especially true for 2nd round and lower guys. A projected 2nd round pick blowing out his knee in a bowl game could easily drop to the 5th-6th round and lose a million or more in signing bonus.

 

[hog88]

Something like this is a smart option.

I'm a smart guy...

 

[Delmar]

But it's not "look out for #1" in the selfish sense that some are seeing it as here. Hyatt clearly put the team first in playing such a huge role in resuscitating this program, but UT's season ended on Saturday in Nashville once it was clear we wouldn't be in the CFP. Bowl games other than the CFP are exhibitions that are valuable to coaches for the additional practices and for the fan base.

It is actually selfish of the fan base to expect a kid who busted his ass all season and in the process played himself into a position where he is about to come into life changing money to not be able to think of himself first at this point

Exactly. It’s up to the player and his family and nobody else.

 

[tennesseepride84]

UNC had about 5-10 guys opt out of the Orange Bowl a couple years back. That’s the biggest game in the history of their program. We’re gonna have guys opt out.

You know what. You may be right, as I’ve had more time to think about it Kenny Pickett opted out of the Sugar Bowl last year and they hadn’t done anything since Marino.

 

[McDad]

Just read that Hyatt signed an NIL deal with Bose.

To me, that indicates that he has not made a final decision yet... at worst. It could also mean that he's trying to find enough NIL money to let him play another year in college without sacrificing his payday.

As for "he could get hurt"... he can get a Lloyd's insurance policy if the NIL money works. He could just as easily suffer a career ending injury playing his first season in the NFL... probably more likely.

The fact that there is risk in life and increased risk in a violent game, doesn't mean one should be cavalier about risk reward decisions. Is it better to suffer a career ending injury with 600k guaranteed NFL money or with zero dollars on a college team? To me, the answer is self evident.

 

[Stephen Gray]

But that depends completely on your assumption that the risk of injury is high. Hooker suffered a non-contact injury. The same thing could have happened in practice or on Pro Day.

Tillman suffered a high ankle sprain early in the season. His injury is more damaging to his draft prospects than a similar injury to Hyatt in a bowl game.

Your concern is the risk of having a career ending injury. Could it happen? Obviously yes. But how frequently does it happen? Not very.

I understand cutting the risk to zero... but some people value other things more.

Yeah I mean you play from the time you are a small kid till your final college game to get to the point where you go pro. I know college games are the highest level to that point and the risk is the greatest, and I’ll even agree maybe the later games are riskier than the early ones because people are banged up. Still I can’t imagine game 13 is that much riskier than game 12. Would actually be interested in knowing what the stats are on career altering injuries.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I have to take issue with the bold part of your post. Health at the time of the draft is hugely important to their draft position which translates to signing bonus, this is especially true for 2nd round and lower guys. A projected 2nd round pick blowing out his knee in a bowl game could easily drop to the 5th-6th round and lose a million or more in signing bonus.

Friend, do you really think Inky Johnson feels better about his injury because it happened mid-season rather than in a bowl game?

Do you believe Cedric Tillman is less worried about his injury because it happened early in the season?

Football is a risky sport. Nonetheless, in any single game (other than bumps and bruises), the chance of a serious injury, a season-ending event, is low, and the chance of a life-altering one like Inky's is even more rare. But the risk does compound from game to game.

So if you're afraid of getting hurt and losing your chance of getting to the pros, you should sit out your senior season. Not just the last game of it, where the risk is relatively very low.

Or, even smarter, just quit playing football so you don't have to worry about long-term effects like encephalitis (the long-term brain injury).

~ ~ ~

I don't agree with any of that. I'm just following your and McDad's thoughts to their natural conclusion. From your position, it doesn't make sense to sit out one single game, where the risk of significant injury is pretty low. It would make a lot more sense to sit out a big part of your final season, where the cumulative risk is much, much higher. Or quit football entirely because the lifetime risk is even higher than any single season.

I think the lads should play. Worrying about injury is a loser way to approach the game. If you're in it, you should be in it.

Again, won't stop supporting the lads who might decide to sit out, but I personally don't think any of them should.

Go Vols!

 

[McDad]

There's nothing childish about commitment to others, and to your team. There is nothing childish about living life to the fullest. There is nothing childish about courage.

In response to Hog, you said something about how you agree with him unless your health, reputation, or ethics are on the line. A big part of ethics for many people is loyalty. Another important value for some people is selflessness. Duty. Courage. These values, these ethics, all argue in favor of the lads seeing it through.

Sure, there are other ethics/values that might argue in favor of sitting it out. Taking care of one's family by maximizing chances of a big payday, for instance. I get that the ethics can cut both ways. But most of the ones Americans traditionally value most highly, they point toward staying on the team.

Since reputation doesn't come into play in this particular matter, the only consideration left of the three you mentioned is health. Protect your health by not playing football. But if you're going down that road, might as well go ALL the WAY down it. Just quit football for good, because it's not a very healthy way to make a living.

Do you begin to see the faults in this viewpoint, McDad?

No sir. These grand noble assessments can be used for grand efforts of good. They can also be used for grand efforts of evil. I can just imagine the Nazi leaders throwing this hot garbage out to their underlings just as easily as Allied leaders throwing this out before the D day landings.

My commitment to others (outside of my family) is conditional on my health, reputation and personal ethics. I wouldn't climb you rickety ladder to work in an unsafe manner because "the team" needed the job done to get paid. I wouldn't leave the scene of an accident because your insurance on the company vehicle might suffer.

My primary duty is to myself and my family. Risking an injury to play in a meaningless game (my opinion) is not a smart risk / reward decision. I don't fault anyone who makes that decision differently than I do. But I would not be manipulated into making a bad decision.

 

[McDad]

But that depends completely on your assumption that the risk of injury is high. Hooker suffered a non-contact injury. The same thing could have happened in practice or on Pro Day.

Tillman suffered a high ankle sprain early in the season. His injury is more damaging to his draft prospects than a similar injury to Hyatt in a bowl game.

Your concern is the risk of having a career ending injury. Could it happen? Obviously yes. But how frequently does it happen? Not very.

I understand cutting the risk to zero... but some people value other things more.

Again, risk in inherent in the game. Choosing risk over safety when it doesn't mean anything or enhance one's position in future employment in the risky profession is not a smart move. I fully support people making unintelligent decisions but I would absolutely opt out and advise anyone who asked my opinion the same.

 

[McDad]

Yeah I mean you play from the time you are a small kid till your final college game to get to the point where you go pro. I know college games are the highest level to that point and the risk is the greatest, and I’ll even agree maybe the later games are riskier than the early ones because people are banged up. Still I can’t imagine game 13 is that much riskier than game 12. Would actually be interested in knowing what the stats are on career altering injuries.

The stats would show relative risk which would be enlightening in this discussion.

Think about it this way, why do the coaches occasionally prohibit QB's from running? Or, neglect to use the more talented WR or DB to return punts and kicks? Those coaches are managing the players exposure to additional risk. Smart decision, too, because that player getting injured could affect the season. Well, a player getting injured during a bowl by exposing themselves to additional risk could affect their income for a lifetime. To me, it is the same thing at the core.