Boycott butterball turkeys!

[gsvol]

I'm a Christian and we don't want or accept gsvol. He's a heretic and a hypocrite.

Egad, I've been excommunicated by pope poochy poo!

Some people are all that keen on eating meat that is
killed in a ritualistic islamic manner while someone is
shouting 'allah is greatest.'

Got a Butterball turkey for Thanksgiving? You're eating halal - Jihad Watch

Many Christians, Hindus or Sikhs and Jews find it
offensive to eat meat slaughtered according to
Islamic ritual

We need gsvol in the Endzone. Pooch, make this happen. I think he might be legally retarded. I'm not trying to be funny, I think gsvol could get a government check based on his mental capacity.

It certainly doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that
your elevator doesn't go all the way to the penthouse.

Stop the Islamization of America: A Practical Guide To The Resistance (Autographed) (Hardcover)

Here is just a small sampling of what you'll find in this book:

Startling new information about the full extent of Muslim
Brotherhood infiltration in the Department of Justice, and
its brazen pro-Muslim activities, including its “Monthly
Outreach Meetings” with Muslim and Arab groups at the
Civil Rights Division -- and the 14,000 documents the
DOJ won't release that reveal the full, shocking extent
of this cooperation.

A primer for protest against Islamic supremacist mosques
and other initiatives in your local area.

A primer for how freedom fighters can deal with an
adversarial media.

The shocking details of the travesty that is the 9/11
victims memorial, which is planning to put the
unidentified remains of 9/11 victims seven stories
underground inside a museum that charges admission
-- and which will include lavish profiles (above ground,
of course) of the 9/11 hijackers.

The Sheepshead Bay mosque initiative and other mega-
mosque initiatives nationwide: the sinister forces behind
them and their insidious agenda.

Never-before-released details of the Islamic honor
murders of the Texas teenagers Amina and Sarah Said.

The American Bar Association’s coverup of its work to
resist anti-Sharia initiatives.

The Islamic schools that receive public money.

The truth behind Virginia’s failing to mail military ballots
in time for them to be counted in the election of 2008.

Links between the Justice Department’s Civil Rights
Division and the Islamic Society of North America, the
Council on American-Islamic Relations, the American-
Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, and the Muslim
Students Association.

AND MUCH MORE

1) This is not consistent with what I have read about this topic. To quote Wikipedia, since that is the easiest place to find the info: "The slaughter itself must be done by a sane (mentally competent) adult Muslim, Jew, or Christian as they are considered "People of the Book" (Arabic: Ahl al-Kitab?); this is a point of consensus amongst Muslim scholars."

2) The bible teaches us not to obey laws of man that contradict the bible. So, while I disagree with Islam as a religion, this is a very valid principle.

1) Wiki is a notoriously sorry site.

Just one example:

Green Valley Meat Distributors Inc

A Muslim Slaughterman pronounces the Tasmiah
(Bismillah Allahu Akbar) in person.

A Muslim Slaughterman operates a sharp knife or
mechanical knife to cut in front of the neck through
the skin, trachea, eso****us and major blood vessels.

The Muslim Slaughterman also slaughters by hand any
chicken which may miss the blade.

The Muslim Slaughtermen perform the Halal slaughtering
on a full time basis to produce all Zabiha Halal meat.

Muslim scholars all agree that later revelations supercede
previous writings, in the later writings the 'people of the
book' are granted considerably less freedom.


2) I served with Jewish men, I don't remember them
demanding Kosher meals.

This is just one of many moslem demands.

Ask yourself this, how many Jews and Christians are
'slaughtermen' in countries that have islamic sharia
law as the ultimate authority?

FWIW the only bill Barack Hussein Obama got passed
in the Illinois senate was a halal food bill.

I am saying that there is a God and that the myths of all religious texts blaspheme the true God.

Tell me more about this 'true god.'

You call for our military forces to kill "moslems".

Only moslem combatants, since they have declared war
on us.

There may be; it is irrational and illogical for any human to think that an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being either creates or permits an evil being.

So you are saying 'it's all good?'

For the same reasons I read the Bible, the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad-Gita: literary curiosity and in an effort to understand what basic beliefs certain peoples hold.

I would say you do a miserable job of doing that.

No.

So you are saying I violated some rule but you can't
quote the rule?

What does that matter?

It matters because it infringes on our hard won freedoms.

Socrates does not answer questions with questions. His method was dialectical and required that the other party in the dialogue answer each and every question as honestly as possible.

But ending with a question.

I doubt this.

Doubt what you will.

Who do you want me to give thanks to?

I don't much care one way or the other, that's your
business.

 

[therealUT]

Tell me more about this 'true god.'

To do so would be apply human concepts to the divine and to give such a being characteristics of which none can be certain; both of these things would result in diminishing the idea of the being, thus, it would be blasphemy.

Only moslem combatants, since they have declared war
on us.

And, we have declared war on them...

So you are saying 'it's all good?'

I am saying that it is illogical for someone to believe both in an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being, and an evil being.

As I already stated, the concepts of good and evil are human constructs.

I would say you do a miserable job of doing that.

Have you read each of these religious texts?

So you are saying I violated some rule but you can't
quote the rule?

I am saying you violated a rule and I will not quote the rule for you.

It matters because it infringes on our hard won freedoms.

How so?

But ending with a question.

Can you name one Socratic dialogue that ends with a question?

You should not toss terms around that you do not understand.

I don't much care one way or the other, that's your
business.

It is my business; yet, you cared enough to tell me I should give thanks. So, to whom?

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I love how GS has enough sense to say that Wiki is bunk while simultaneously lacking the awareness needed to see that JihadWatch and AtlasShrugs are merely websites created to scare old, white Christians.

 

[therealUT]

2) I served with Jewish men, I don't remember them
demanding Kosher meals.

This is just one of many moslem demands.

There are quite a number of Kosher MREs and Kosher meals in the military. I do not think the Christian or the Muslim Servicemen and women demanded that Jewish Servicemen and women have Kosher meals. Maybe they did; however, it is more plausible that Jewish Servicemen and women made that demand.

They also serve plenty of fish and veg options on Fridays during lent for Catholics. On top of that, I was driven from Camp Darby back to Main Post at Ft. Benning so that I could attend All Saints Day mass while I was in Ranger School.

The military, our government, and plenty of private business make plenty of accommodations for the religious. It is absurd when you get upset because one of these accommodations is for a religion you particularly despise.

 

[KiffinKiller]

gs is smarter than us, just ask him.

 

[gsvol]

There are quite a number of Kosher MREs and Kosher meals in the military. I do not think the Christian or the Muslim Servicemen and women demanded that Jewish Servicemen and women have Kosher meals. Maybe they did; however, it is more plausible that Jewish Servicemen and women made that demand.

They also serve plenty of fish and veg options on Fridays during lent for Catholics. On top of that, I was driven from Camp Darby back to Main Post at Ft. Benning so that I could attend All Saints Day mass while I was in Ranger School.

The military, our government, and plenty of private business make plenty of accommodations for the religious. It is absurd when you get upset because one of these accommodations is for a religion you particularly despise.

I despise what that religion is doing and has done and the hateful teachings which lead to those actions.

I love how GS has enough sense to say that Wiki is bunk while simultaneously lacking the awareness needed to see that JihadWatch and AtlasShrugs are merely websites created to scare old, white Christians.

The difference is that the latter two can be depended upon to be factual.

I was an hour and a half late to Thanksgiving thanks to my sister. I had figured I'd missed prayer, but my relatives waited until I showed up to pray... because they know I'm an atheist. Good troll on their part.

is it all turkeys or only the turkeys they sale in mostly other countries?

All. (sell not sale)

To do so would be apply human concepts to the divine and to give such a being characteristics of which none can be certain; both of these things would result in diminishing the idea of the being, thus, it would be blasphemy.

So you say there is a 'true God' but to try to apply human concepts would be blasphemy?

How did you conceive of such a god?

Sounds a bit like Brahman.

And, we have declared war on them...

So if we make enouch concessions they will be happy and make war no more?

BTW, I don't recall a formal declaration of war on our part.

I am saying that it is illogical for someone to believe both in an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being, and an evil being.

As I already stated, the concepts of good and evil are human constructs.

Well then that is part of your belief system.

Doesn't begin to answer my question though, which could have been answered with a simple yes or no.

Have you read each of these religious texts?

I've read quite a bit of Hindu and Budhist writings.

I have read most of the koran, some of the poetry is nice, I like two verses in particular.

I've also read the book of the Mormon, the book of the Baha'in and very much like Taoist writings.

I am saying you violated a rule and I will not quote the rule for you.

OK ref, where is the instant replay, I protest.

How so?

I thought you were an authority on islam, islamic sharia law tramples all over freedoms we have in America, left and right at every turn.

Can you name one Socratic dialogue that ends with a question?

You should not toss terms around that you do not understand.

When one person does all the questioning that is considered an interrogation.

When two people both are free to ask questions then the Socratic method can come into play.

Is not the Socratic method a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas?

The latter part of my question is something with which you seem to have quite a problem, you cannot seem to agree to disagree on most any thing.

With you it always has to be; 'I'm right and you are wrong.'

Maybe you should bridle your intellectual arrogance every once in a while.

Oh wait, maybe the Oracle at Delphi is saying you are the wisest of all.

Read this and see if you can understand my question.

Socratic Questioning

In particulary the section titled 'Questions about the question.'

Could it be you who was the one who didn't understand?

It is my business; yet, you cared enough to tell me I should give thanks. So, to whom?

I didn't say you should if I remember.

Did I not say that maybe someday you will choose to do so?

At any rate I have found that people with an attitude of gratitude lead much happier lives.

To whom? As I said, that is completely up to you.

 

[therealUT]

I despise what that religion is doing and has done and the hateful teachings which lead to those actions.

Yet, you make a distinction between real Christians and Christians in name only who commit atrocities that they then justify through radically fundamental interpretations of the Bible. Then, you do not, in the name of charity, apply that same distinction to real Muslims and Muslims in name only who commit atrocities that they then justify through radically fundamental interpretations of the Koran.

So you say there is a 'true God' but to try to apply human concepts would be blasphemy?

How did you conceive of such a god?

Sounds a bit like Brahman.

I do not conceive of such a God; in fact, it is completely beyond my conception. I get there from investigating the limits of reason.

So if we make enouch concessions they will be happy and make war no more?

BTW, I don't recall a formal declaration of war on our part.

I don't recall a formal declaration of war from the overarching institution of Islam. Sure, certain sects, groups, and individuals have declared war against the US.

Well then that is part of your belief system.

Doesn't begin to answer my question though, which could have been answered with a simple yes or no.

I have already told you what I thought about the concepts of good and evil. In light of what I said (they are human constructs that have no actual existence or meaning), your question "Are you saying its 'all good'?" is absolutely absurd.

I thought you were an authority on islam, islamic sharia law tramples all over freedoms we have in America, left and right at every turn.

Can you explain how halal turkeys trample your freedom?

When one person does all the questioning that is considered an interrogation.

When two people both are free to ask questions then the Socratic method can come into play.

Is not the Socratic method a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas?

Could it be you who was the one who didn't understand?

No. Question the question is only used by Socrates against loaded questions; loaded questions are more statement than interrogation. Socrates does not question simple and direct questions.

Question the Question:

Ex. 1: (Correct use of question the question)
M: When did you start abusing your children?
S: Why do you think I do abuse my children?

Ex. 2: (Incorrect use of question the question)
M: Do you believe in God?
S: Do you not believe in God?

I didn't say you should if I remember.

Did I not say that maybe someday you will choose to do so?

At any rate I have found that people with an attitude of gratitude lead much happier lives.

To whom? As I said, that is completely up to you.

Do you think that individuals who make sweeping assumptions about others live generally happier lives?

Subtract the evidence you have for me not giving thanks from the conclusion that I do not give thanks. The difference is every assumption that you have made.

 

[orangestorm]

All. (sell not sale)

oops sorry about that typo not sure what I was doing there. On their website they have this:

With expertise in catering to the cultural and linguistic needs of countries all around the world, we are USDA Approved, Russian Approved, and Halal Certified. Butterball has a wide-array of product choices to serve almost any price point and market, and will work with you to meet specific product needs. With both the Butterball and Carolina Turkey brands, you will find all of the high-quality products and experience you need to make every meal a celebration.

They also have several international markets in the Middle East and other predominately Muslim countries. Now, if you ran an international food company, it would be smart to alter your product to satisfy the needs and dietary restrictions of the people living there. I know McDonald's and other companies change their menu for the country that they are in.

It would be impossible for a company the size of Butterball to slaughter every turkey in the Halal tradition; however, it would be a lot easier for them to do it in a country that is used to and prepared to kill the turkeys in the Halal tradition. I would guess that most food service companies operate in the same way as Butterball.

 

[gsvol]

oops sorry about that typo not sure what I was doing there. On their website they have this:


They also have several international markets in the Middle East and other predominately Muslim countries. Now, if you ran an international food company, it would be smart to alter your product to satisfy the needs and dietary restrictions of the people living there. I know McDonald's and other companies change their menu for the country that they are in.

It would be impossible for a company the size of Butterball to slaughter every turkey in the Halal tradition; however, it would be a lot easier for them to do it in a country that is used to and prepared to kill the turkeys in the Halal tradition. I would guess that most food service companies operate in the same way as Butterball.

What you say is all true and I have no problem
with them producing halal food to be marketed
in moslem countries, or even here if it is
labled as such.

However the spokesman for Butterball said all
their turkeys were halal.

The Thanksgiving tradition was originally
started by devout Christians and so why would
any Christian want 'alahu akbar' be shouted out
over the slaughter of their Thanksgiving turkey?

Taking the appeasement issue one step farther,
this is a good a place as any to post the
following article;

Appeasing Islamist radicals imperils Western freedoms | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

Disturbing trends in ostensibly
democratic nations are currently threatening
our fundamental liberties of free speech.
Western nations, intimidated by threats of
violence from Islamic radicals, are re-
evaluating the rights of citizens to criticize
the beliefs of others with whom they disagree.
---------------------------------

Whole segments of the global Muslim community,
-- the Ahmadia Muslims, for example, over 4
million strong in Pakistan -- are denied civil
rights and have absolutely no legal standing.
They cannot get passports, their publications
are banned, their children are expelled from
schools, and they cannot even legally call
themselves Muslim -- all because they revere a
different Muslim "messiah" than the approved
Sunni or Shiite sects.

In supposedly moderate Indonesia, Ahmadia
Muslims are considered "deviants" and risk
criminal penalties for being a member of that
sect, the maximum being up to five years in
prison.

Of course, conversion to Christianity in
majority Islamic countries is deserving of
death as the current sentence levied on Abdul
Rahman -- a former Muslim in Iran who as a
teenager converted to Christianity --
demonstrates.
--------------------------

President Sarkozy of France and Prime Minister
Cameron of the UK have publicly said that
Europe's multiculturalism has been a failure.
---------------------------

Norway's educated elite has openly criticized
free speech as dangerous and inciting violence.
----------------------

Recently in Washington a conference sponsored
by the Federalist Society asked the question:
Are global trends to ban religious defamation,
religious insult, and Islamophobia a new
challenge to First Amendment freedoms?

Noted speaker after speaker demonstrated that
the answer was a resounding yes.
--------------------------

Unless we in the West are on guard against this
creeping trend, we, too, will find ourselves
sleepwalking into Sharia Law -- even here.

Yet, you make a distinction between real Christians and Christians in name only who commit atrocities that they then justify through radically fundamental interpretations of the Bible. Then, you do not, in the name of charity, apply that same distinction to real Muslims and Muslims in name only who commit atrocities that they then justify through radically fundamental interpretations of the Koran.

The sheer numbers of atrocities committed by
moslems compared to the very rare instance
of the same commited by those who claim the
act is committed in the name of Christianity
renders your argument purely academic at best.

I do not conceive of such a God; in fact, it is completely beyond my conception. I get there from investigating the limits of reason.

The limits of your own reason, hence my original
question.

I don't recall a formal declaration of war from the overarching institution of Islam. Sure, certain sects, groups, and individuals have declared war against the US.

Many of these 'fatwas' have come from prominent
moslems, consider the muslim brotherhood motto
for instance.

Since our government hasn't made a formal
declaration of war then perhaps you can point
to any Christian of any ilk that declared war
on anyone?

I have already told you what I thought about the concepts of good and evil. In light of what I said (they are human constructs that have no actual existence or meaning), your question "Are you saying its 'all good'?" is absolutely absurd.

You say that there is no such thing as good and
evil but say that you cannot conceive of a god
that allows evil to exist.

Who is being absurd in this equation?

Can you explain how halal turkeys trample your freedom?

If the company wants to market halal turkeys
then they should label them as such.

No. Question the question is only used by Socrates against loaded questions; loaded questions are more statement than interrogation. Socrates does not question simple and direct questions.

Question the Question:

Ex. 1: (Correct use of question the question)
M: When did you start abusing your children?
S: Why do you think I do abuse my children?

Ex. 2: (Incorrect use of question the question)
M: Do you believe in God?
S: Do you not believe in God?

That's why I was using the Socratic method to
begin with.

Do you think that individuals who make sweeping assumptions about others live generally happier lives?

You should know.

Subtract the evidence you have for me not giving thanks from the conclusion that I do not give thanks. The difference is every assumption that you have made.

I thought you said that you didn't.

If that is the case then I was only taking you
at your word.

 

[therealUT]

The sheer numbers of atrocities committed by
moslems compared to the very rare instance
of the same commited by those who claim the
act is committed in the name of Christianity
renders your argument purely academic at best.

Can you provide these numbers as percentages of world populations at the times of each atrocity?

The limits of your own reason, hence my original
question.

I cannot conceive of a greater reason or great logical system; hence, why I confine what I assert to what can be deduced and induced within my own reason.

Many of these 'fatwas' have come from prominent
moslems, consider the muslim brotherhood motto
for instance.

Since our government hasn't made a formal
declaration of war then perhaps you can point
to any Christian of any ilk that declared war
on anyone?

A 'fatwa' is less of a declaration of war than dropping JDAMs on persons (with or without some "formal declaration of war"; the authorization for the use of military force against individuals more than suffices).

You say that there is no such thing as good and eveil but say that you cannot conceive of a god
that allows evil to exist.

Who is being absurd in this equation?

I have stated repeatedly that it is absurd for one to believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God and to believe in the existence of evil. I do not believe in such a God nor do I believe in the existence of good and evil as anything more than human constructs.

If the company wants to market halal turkeys
then they should label them as such.

Does Halal meat pose a significant health risk to those who eat it?

Do you think the government should mandate that they are labeled as such?

That's why I was usisng the Socratic method to
begin with.

Wrong. You responded to my question of "do you believe in the existence of Satan?" with "do you believe in good and evil?"

My question was neither loaded, complex, nor unclear. Your question in no way attempted to unload my question, simplify it, nor clarify it.

I thought you said that you didn't.

Did not happen.

If that is the case then I was only taking you
at your word.

You cannot take somebody at their word for something they never said.

 

[gsvol]

Can you provide these numbers as percentages of world populations at the times of each atrocity?

Quite a bit of it yes.

Perhaps we should take up your question in the 'black hole of history' thread?

I cannot conceive of a greater reason or great logical system; hence, why I confine what I assert to what can be deduced and induced within my own reason.

That's your business, I wouldn't want to interfere.

A 'fatwa' is less of a declaration of war than dropping JDAMs on persons (with or without some "formal declaration of war"; the authorization for the use of military force against individuals more than suffices).

A 'fatwa' is a religious edict, it doesn't have to have anything at all to do with jihad or violence or war but it can.

A 'fatwa' could be as simple as 'don't buy butterballs' because they are rubbed with pig fat.

I have stated repeatedly that it is absurd for one to believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God and to believe in the existence of evil. I do not believe in such a God nor do I believe in the existence of good and evil as anything more than human constructs.

Absurd to you perhaps, not for others.

Does Halal meat pose a significant health risk to those who eat it?

Do you think the government should mandate that they are labeled as such?

No and no.

Wrong. You responded to my question of "do you believe in the existence of Satan?" with "do you believe in good and evil?"

My question was neither loaded, complex, nor unclear. Your question in no way attempted to unload my question, simplify it, nor clarify it.

Well in that case I do believe in the concepts of good and evil and that they do exist and it isn't just something dreamed up by the human mind and yes I do believe that satan exists as a spiritual entity.

Did not happen.



You cannot take somebody at their word for something they never said.

So then you did celebrate Thanksgiving and did give thanks for your blessings?

 

[RespectTradition]

Hey gs,

1 Corinthians 8
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.

Are you scared of being defiled by eating halal? Is your conscience weak? Does the idea that someone says God is Great while killing your food discomfiting?

 

[KiffinKiller]

halal meat is the new bologna!

 

[Tallman]

I do not want my food blessed in the name of a false God. No butterball turkey for me. Ham for thanksgiving and steak for Christmas.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Damn, you loons are coming out of the woodwork in droves.

Is this what happens when UK beats UT?

 

[RespectTradition]

Damn, you loons are coming out of the woodwork in droves.

Is this what happens when UK beats UT?

sign of the apocalypse, man, sign of the apocalypse

 

[DynamiteMcGhee]

I do not want my food blessed in the name of a false God. No butterball turkey for me. Ham for thanksgiving and steak for Christmas.

Prime rib all day erryday.

 

[crusse10]

I don't care to read through this, but does he seriously believe that Allah, the Christian's God, and the Jew's God aren't the same being?

 

[RespectTradition]

I don't care to read through this, but does he seriously believe that Allah, the Christian's God, and the Jew's God aren't the same being?

Yes, that is what he believes (or at least states).

Allah is just the arabic word for god. It is commonly used by Arabic-speaking Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

Muslims have a false religion loosely based on judeo-christian roots. That does not mean they have a false god. They simply try to approach him incorrectly.

I don't know why so many christians have such a problem with this simple concept.

 

[crusse10]

Yes, that is what he believes (or at least states).

Allah is just the arabic word for god. It is commonly used by Arabic-speaking Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

Muslims have a false religion loosely based on judeo-christian roots. That does not mean they have a false god. They simply try to approach him incorrectly.

I don't know why so many christians have such a problem with this simple concept.

Like...Seriously. They trace back to Abraham the same way Christians and Jews do. The only difference is they go through his legit first born, Ishmael. It's the SAME GOD. Who cares?

 

[RespectTradition]

Like...Seriously. They trace back to Abraham the same way Christians and Jews do. The only difference is they go through his legit first born, Ishmael. It's the SAME GOD. Who cares?

That depends on how you mean legit. Ishmael was an illegitimate child from most perspectives.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

Yes, that is what he believes (or at least states).

Allah is just the arabic word for god. It is commonly used by Arabic-speaking Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

Muslims have a false religion loosely based on judeo-christian roots. That does not mean they have a false god. They simply try to approach him incorrectly.

I don't know why so many christians have such a problem with this simple concept.

A rare factually accurate post from someone on VN. Good job.

 

[crusse10]

That depends on how you mean legit. Ishmael was an illegitimate child from most perspectives.

Word usage failed me. My intent was to explain that one came before the other

 

[VOLatile]

A rare factually accurate post from someone on VN. Good job.

How is that factually accurate while leaning heavily on Christian beliefs? (3rd paragraph)

 

[Through_The_T]

Had a Butterball turkey at our Thanksgiving and ever since then, I've had a strong urge to eradicate all infidels. TIFWIW....