Butch Jones "Vows to bring the Vols back"

#176
#176
utvols1975 said:
Since CBJ can't coach a game until September, talking is about all he can do now. What else should he do right now when he can't coach yet? Should he just be silent and not talk to the fans, or the media? Would silence give you a better impression of him?

Some of you Negavols are so irrational and delusional and it continues to amaze me.

Vols, Butch!
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He's not being negative, he's criticizing those who think what Jones is saying is unique or some kind of epiphany that no other coach has figured out. The people who hear this type of generic rah-rah statement, then nearly soil themselves and say things like "Coach just gets it!!" What Jones is doing is fine, it's what he's supposed to do and say on the talk circuit. It's just that the proof in the pudding will come in the fall, not at a luncheon in Memphis.
 
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#178
#178
TGVol said:
Here are few things Butch said so far:

1. We are the winningest program of all time
2. UT sells itself - all you have to do is show up and everyone recognizes the power T
3. We have the best staff in America
4. They have the infalliable plan

All sounds good (and you can call all this a vision).
But the problem is they have met quite a few recruits even this time around and could not get them to buy into this vision - even though they were out there with twitter etc talking all this up
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Besides the fact that we would have liked to have these recruits? How is it a problem to the vision? Leaders understand that change and buy-in take time. They also understand that some people will be slower to buy into change and vision than others. They also understand that whether someone accepts their vision or not is not necessarily just about their abilities to communicate the vision, or the validity of the vision. Acceptance by others is also determined by internal and external reasons beyond the leader's control. Thus, the leader's belief in the vision, and persistence, are of vast importance.

Israel built a golden calf, even though Moses shared a great vision and infallible plan. It took them longer than they wanted, but he got Israel to the promised land.

As much as his communication, vision and plan, his persistence was also a sign of his leadership. The end result defined his vision, not 'three weeks of recruiting'.

TGVol said:
(but this vision is supposedly as true now as it will be next year so why did the highly rated recruits not buy into it)?
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Something is true only if everyone believes it's true? How postmodern of you. :good!:

TGVol said:
Will winning 6-7 games next year make it more obvious to recruits that we really do have the best staff in America (as opposed to less likely to belive this when the losses start accumulating)?
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Winning will definitely add credibility to his communication and vision. More time to build relationships and communicate the vision will also help.

Telling him to stop communicating the vision won't.
 
#179
#179
Unimane said:
He's not being negative, he's criticizing those who think what Jones is saying is unique or some kind of epiphany that no other coach has figured out. The people who hear this type of generic rah-rah statement, then nearly soil themselves and say things like "Coach just gets it!!" What Jones is doing is fine, it's what he's supposed to do and say on the talk circuit. It's just that the proof in the pudding will come in the fall, not at a luncheon in Memphis.
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So, our fans shouldn't be excited that we have a coach the "gets" the same thing that is working elsewhere?

OK.


I guess.
 
#180
#180
Orange_Crush said:
Leaders understand that change and buy-in take time.
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Our fans (and most other's in places with strong football tradtion like ours) don't understand this. One or two so-so years (6-7 wins) and they will be sick of this vision and want another one. That's why it was critical for recruits to immediately buy into his vision this year (that's what bought Dooley his 3rd year - people were reluctantly willing to wait and see how Hunter, Bray, and o-line, etc perform after they get some experience). In my opinion Butch missed that opportunity this year and if he does not overachieve in W-L column overwhelming majority of our fans will run him out of town no later then end of his second year. I do not wish this to happen but that sounds most likely to me (unless he overachievs and wins 8-9 games/year).
 
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#181
#181
Would you guys be happy if we won one more game each year? (Meaning 6 this year, then 7, etc..)
 
#182
#182
"Butch Jones Vows to bring the Vols back."

Well damn that's noble of him. And here I thought UT was paying him 3 million a year just to send out tweets and make talk radio appearances. Kudos to him if he can actually find time in his busy schedule to put a winning team on the field!

Sorry but I've been in sort of a morose mood since signing day.
 
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#183
#183
Catbone said:
Would you guys be happy if we won one more game each year? (Meaning 6 this year, then 7, etc..)
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I would but I guarantee that if that happens the roles will be reversed and I will be among few that are defending CBJ against overwhelming majority who will forget what they said about time required to rebuild etc.
 
#184
#184
TGVol said:
Our fans (and most other's in places with strong football tradtion like ours) don't understand this.
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Their understanding or lack thereof doesn't change it.

TGVol said:
One or two so-so years (6-7 wins) and they will be sick of this vision and want another one.
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At that time, there will be more to judge the vision against than just its communication. We can begin judging the staff by performance as well as the vision/communication. It will be a far more informed decision than judging him after three weeks of recruiting, and then telling him to shut up. No?

TGVol said:
That's why it was critical for recruits to immediately buy into his vision this year (that's what bought Dooley his 3rd year - people were reluctantly willing to wait and see how Hunter, Bray, and o-line, etc perform after they get some experience).
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No. It was not critical that all recruits bought in immediately to the vision. It would have been nice, but not critical. The staff moved our pitiful class up quite a bit in a very short time. They had several highly talented recruits and filled several needs. We have current talent on the team. Now we can wait and see what the staff can do, and then make an informed decision.

TGVol said:
In my opinion Butch missed that opportunity this year and if he does not overachieve in W-L column overwhelming majority of our fans will run him out of town no later then end of his second year.
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I'm not sure what opportunities you saw that I didn't. Three weeks and a 40-something class at a down program, full of turmoil and vitriol, is not my definition of an "opportunity". It is a list of hurtles, and I feel the staff did a nice job maneuvering the obstacle course, all things considered.

TGVol said:
I do not wish this to happen but that sounds most likely to me (unless he overachievs and wins 8-9 games/year).
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So, the answer to all of this is to tell him to shut up...

Can't say I follow your logic.
 
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#185
#185
Orange_Crush said:
So, the answer to all of this is to tell him to shut up...
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They can obviously talk/tweet all they want (and they do). All I'm saying is that none of that will make any difference if they can't coach them up and overachive in terms of W-L expectations (not meet current W-L expectations but actually overachive). This is because people now say they would except 6 wins next year and perhaps the next - but if that actually happens they will be screaming for everyone to be fired. Why? Because at that point they will again be laughed at by their Bama/UF/UGA/Vandy friends and will want someone to instantly come in and fix their misery. AD (whoever it is at that time) will have to comply or face 50-60K at Neyland - and that will never be tolerated).
 
#186
#186
TGVol said:
He is not. I read somewhere that soon after he was hired that he was only trailing LSU's Miles in terms of twitter followers in the SEC - so it did not take him very long at all to accomplish that (no problem with that). But the problem is that that quick accomplishment did not translate in any way shape or form into quick recruiting success (what actually mattered).
Dooley did a lot better his first year and only had 2 weeks to do it (as opposed to 31 days). That's the undeniable fact (and I don't know to what extent Dooley used twitter if at all).
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Thats good, right? I mean I like the hatter, but its got to be harder to follow him than CBJ because so much of the hat is empty :). Liking CBJ! GBO!
 
#187
#187
TGVol said:
They can obviously talk/tweet all they want (and they do). All I'm saying is that none of that will make any difference if they can't coach them up and overachive in terms of W-L expectations (not meet current W-L expectations but actually overachive).
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Oh, come now... That's not all you've said on the subject.

"I support the new stuff 100% but they should stop selling themselve and get off the twitter (and this forum) and go to work."

TGVol said:
This is because people now say they would except 6 wins next year and perhaps the next - but if that actually happens they will be screaming for everyone to be fired.
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Funny how we have people screaming now and harshly judging their every move just a couple of months in. You know... Like judging the amount of time they're tweeting... Snarky comments about talking up the program... Telling them how to manage their time and implement/communicate their vision...

"I support the new stuff 100% but they should stop selling themselve and get off the twitter (and this forum) and go to work."

Yep. That's a lot better.

TGVol said:
Why? Because at that point they will again be laughed at by their Bama/UF/UGA/Vandy friends and will want someone to instantly come in and fix their misery.
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It won't be instantaneous. Yes, it's been five years. That's five years of instability added to the original problems. Some folks don't seem to comprehend this.

But again... Does telling our staff to shut up a couple of months into their tenure help that stability?

"I support the new stuff 100% but they should stop selling themselve and get off the twitter (and this forum) and go to work."

Personally, I think not.

TGVol said:
AD (whoever it is at that time) will have to comply or face 50-60K at Neyland - and that will never be tolerated).
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The AD has to be smarted than the fanbase. They probably know that another short-term firing will kill the program. Again, that's why the fans need to wise up, not the AD dumb down. So again... Does cutting the staff's legs out from under them a couple of months into their tenure cure all of this, or make it worse?

"I support the new stuff 100% but they should stop selling themselve and get off the twitter (and this forum) and go to work."
 
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#188
#188
Orange_Crush said:
"I support the new stuff 100% but they should stop selling themselve and get off the twitter (and this forum) and go to work."
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:dance2: You are actually starting to get it - congratulations. Maybe highlighting that sentence over and over finally did it for you :bow2: Your other friends who still don't get it should try the same excercise.
And what you highlighted is absolutely correct - none of the noise they make in the media, twitter, this forum, or anywhere else will make any difference if they don't win (it will not buy them any extra time) - so they should shut up and get to work. And don't worry about AD - he will be smart enough to do whataver he believes will save his own job.
 
#189
#189
TGVol said:
:dance2: You are actually starting to get it - congratulations. Maybe highlighting that sentence over and over finally did it for you :bow2: Your other friends who still don't get it should try the same excercise.
And what you highlighted is absolutely correct - none of the noise they make in the media, twitter, this forum, or anywhere else will make any difference if they don't win (it will not buy them any extra time) - so they should shut up and get to work. And don't worry about AD - he will be smart enough to do whataver he believes will save his own job.
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Not sure if you realize or not... That was quoting you. Either you missed that, or you were just being snarky.

Either way, I've failed you. I apologize.
 
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#190
#190
TGVol said:
It's not just you - there are many others here who can't comprehend that you can support someone and wish for them to succeed but be critical of how they go about it. So let me repeat: I support the new stuff 100% but they should stop selling themselve and get off the twitter (and this forum) and go to work. Those of you who can't comprehend that sentence sorry but there is not much I can do for you (I can only dumb it down so much).
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...
 
#191
#191
utvols1975 said:
Since CBJ can't coach a game until September, talking is about all he can do now. What else should he do right now when he can't coach yet? Should he just be silent and not talk to the fans, or the media? Would silence give you a better impression of him?

Some of you Negavols are so irrational and delusional and it continues to amaze me.

Vols, Butch!
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Yes. He should just be silent. Better to be silent and make people guess if you're smart than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, just in case UT tanks it yet again.
 
#192
#192
butch, needs to stop with all this rah rah rah, and just keep quiet til at least spring practice. i wonder if he realizes he is digging himself and his bff coaching staff minus graham a massive hole to get out of his second year if they don't back up the talk. i mean he hasn't coached a sec game yet. that and the players will lose faith in his vision and speeches if the results don't come to some extent this season.
 
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#193
#193
TGVol said:
:dance2: You are actually starting to get it - congratulations. Maybe highlighting that sentence over and over finally did it for you :bow2: Your other friends who still don't get it should try the same excercise.
And what you highlighted is absolutely correct - none of the noise they make in the media, twitter, this forum, or anywhere else will make any difference if they don't win (it will not buy them any extra time) - so they should shut up and get to work. And don't worry about AD - he will be smart enough to do whataver he believes will save his own job.
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Oh, and... I refer you again to your logical fallacy of "either/or". It's not "either" shut up "or" get to work. They are not mutually exclusive. They can be at work, and communicate their vision. Leaders know the value in communicating their vision and garnering support, and consider it a vital part of their responsibilities.

Again, I have failed you in this dialogue. I apologize.
 
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#200
#200
Orange_Crush said:
So, our fans shouldn't be excited that we have a coach the "gets" the same thing that is working elsewhere?

OK.


I guess.
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Gets what? He's just giving generic coach speak. What exactly is he saying that makes anyone especially excited or think he's special in some way? He says the same things a million other coaches, both good and bad, say. The exciting part will be if he wins games, then I'll throw out the "coach gets it" lines.
 
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