Can't Coach Speed Haters!

[SaintLouisVol]

. . . If the results are not making it to the field, it is a coaching issue.

So I guess we blame the teacher every time a kid fails algebra?

 

[Jasongivm6]

I'm wondering if our safety was taught to contain the QB and not bite on the RB every play. He repeatedly made that mistake yesterday.

 

[VolBraniac]

I wonder if this team could win conference usa?

NO!
​

 

[JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!]

It is ignored because it is irrelevant. He wasn't the DC at UGA.

He was Co DC and fired pain and simple.

The man is fired from a program we are trying to be better than and play every year for bad performance and lack of results and it's irrelevant ? Geez ! people on here will believe anything except what they see with their own eyes.

 

[TGVol]

So I guess we blame the teacher every time a kid fails algebra?

If the kids in other schools where he previously worked also failed algebra then there is no doubt that teacher is to blame.

 

[darkgable]

Of course they would not have only one loss but we would be doing much better in terms of being competitive and not getting blown out like this every week. Both of those coaches seem much more practical/pragmatic then CBJ who seems religiously attached to his system "that can't fail" (those two are types of coaches that seem to do the most with what they are given - so I for example believe they would not have messed with the offense that much early on since there was nothing there that was broken and needed fixing - it's more likely they would have kept Chaney and Pittman to make sure the o-line which is the strength of the team does not fall apart - exactly opposite from what happened under CBJ).

Watch football much? Malzahn's system with Chaney's system? Malzahn threw it 7 times against us and 8 against the Hogs. Malzahn is religiously attached to his system as well as Pinkel. Pinkel had injuries last year on defense that affected him. You're butthurt over this season so you decide to irrationally come up with reasons as to why other coaches are better this year. Not one of those coaches would have come into TN and miraculously turned this team around against 7 top ten teams on the schedule. This is not Playstation, this is a real rebuilding job that some of you drive thru fans are going to just have to get over and learn to be patient. There is nothing you can do or say that can move this process along. You can however go watch Bama and cheer for them until CBJ turns the program around and then jump on board again.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

Watch football much? Malzahn's system with Chaney's system? Malzahn threw it 7 times against us and 8 against the Hogs. Malzahn is religiously attached to his system as well as Pinkel. Pinkel had injuries last year on defense that affected him. You're butthurt over this season so you decide to irrationally come up with reasons as to why other coaches are better this year. Not one of those coaches would have come into TN and miraculously turned this team around against 7 top ten teams on the schedule. This is not Playstation, this is a real rebuilding job that some of you drive thru fans are going to just have to get over and learn to be patient. There is nothing you can do or say that can move this process along. You can however go watch Bama and cheer for them until CBJ turns the program around and then jump on board again.

Exactly! They seemed bought in by the end of the South Carolina game....but the awful Dooley habits have returned....this week off can hopefully get them refocused mentally and motivated physically to dominate Vandy and finally get back to a bowl game.

 

[TGVol]

Watch football much? Malzahn's system with Chaney's system? Malzahn threw it 7 times against us and 8 against the Hogs. Malzahn is religiously attached to his system as well as Pinkel.

Seems like YOU did not watch the game or turned the sound off? Because the commentators made the exact same point I did about Malzahn - that even back when he was a high school coach he was known to be very pragmatic and played the cards he was dealt (even his post game interview he was asked about why they threw so few passes and he pointed out few of their previous games this year when they threw a lot more than they ran.

 

[OrangeUTopia]

I bet many who are now blaming our inferior talent are the same ones blasting anyone the last few years who dared question many of the commitments/signings of all those 2* and 3* players.

Apparently being a low rated player who wants to wear the "T" doesn't automatically translate into wins. Funny how that works.

 

[Spartacavolus]

He was Co DC and fired pain and simple.

The man is fired from a program we are trying to be better than and play every year for bad performance and lack of results and it's irrelevant ? Geez ! people on here will believe anything except what they see with their own eyes.

The entire Ryan family has been fired or asked to leave multiple times. The list of coaches that have been fired is really long. You sure you want to go that route? You may not be able to field a defensive coaching staff.
Personally, I hold the belief that what happens 5 years ago at a different place and different time of football doesn't automatically equal a repeat. I guess I understand how someone comes to that conclusion. I look at it more from the standpoint of a man and a coach learning more and knowing more than he did when he was a younger man or coach. If Jancek didn't learn anything from his first time as a DC till now, then I guess I wouldn't expect much either. I think its ridiculous to think that because he was fired by Richt when Fulmer was playing in the SEC championship, that he can't coach here for Butch. That's weak, imo. Hell, he outcoached Spurrier a few weeks ago, now you talk about something that happened 6 years ago as a point of reference.

 

[TGVol]

now you talk about something that happened 6 years ago as a point of reference.

It did not happen 6 years ago during Fulmer times.
Jancek got beat badly by both Kiffin (before eventually getting fired at UGA), and Dooley. And I agree with you if our defense looked like it's playing disciplined and improving this year you could make a point that perhaps it can be different this time. But the 3 blowouts in the row make it crystal clear he is either not coaching the fundamentals of angles/tackling, or not able to game plan, or make in game adjustments (or all of the above). You can't be a DC on this level and have people average 20 yards per carry and keep running at you without being able to make adjustment for that - it is simply not acceptable and indicates he is over his head.

 

[T_man_J]

That's not true. Just off the top of my head, Dorial Green-Beckham was the top wr recruit in the country.

You are correct. Green-Beckham is the one and only 5-star.

The premise of this thread was that we don't have comparable talent. My argument was that we have better team talent than Missouri (I used the wrong syntax to make my argument).

In fact, and according to Rivals class standings, we do have better team talent:

2009: TN 10; MO 40
2010: TN 9; MO 21
2011: TN 13; MO 48
2012: TN 17; MO 31
2013; TN 21; MO 41

 

[Wylo]

You are correct. Green-Beckham is the one and only 5-star.

The premise of this thread was that we don't have comparable talent. My argument was that we have better team talent than Missouri (I used the wrong syntax to make my argument).

In fact, and according to Rivals class standings, we do have better team talent:

2009: TN 10; MO 40
2010: TN 9; MO 21
2011: TN 13; MO 48
2012: TN 17; MO 31
2013; TN 21; MO 41

These facts will not go over well with the crowd crying that poor Tennessee can't run fast or have good players.

 

[checkerboards09]

These facts will not go over well with the crowd crying that poor Tennessee can't run fast or have good players.

Sad isn't it? But, you gotta remember, no other big name programs wanted our players..... If they did want them, they were wrong in the evaluation process. All of our players are overrated, so keep that in mind.

 

[Spartacavolus]

It did not happen 6 years ago during Fulmer times.
Jancek got beat badly by both Kiffin (before eventually getting fired at UGA), and Dooley. And I agree with you if our defense looked like it's playing disciplined and improving this year you could make a point that perhaps it can be different this time. But the 3 blowouts in the row make it crystal clear he is either not coaching the fundamentals of angles/tackling, or not able to game plan, or make in game adjustments (or all of the above). You can't be a DC on this level and have people average 20 yards per carry and keep running at you without being able to make adjustment for that - it is simply not acceptable and indicates he is over his head.

he may be in the long run, but I'm not arrogant enough to think the d wouldn't look better with 6 nfl draft picks playing, or in 2 years when our d is loaded.
We go from a game against a hof coach in spurrier where he coached and called a really good game, to over his head because d looked terrible against back to back to back top 10 teams?
For conversation sake, tell me what dc coaches jaques, greg clark, hood, miller, Jordan williams aj, sapp, brewer, moore, coleman, McNeil, and walkons in swafford, toney and max in a game against #9 and speed where we don't get our asses handed to us, and I'd be fine with a replacement because he would be a miracle worker.
I promise you there isn't a DC in the conference, many conferences really, that wouldn't keep their defensive lineup over ours.

 

[Spartacavolus]

These facts will not go over well with the crowd crying that poor Tennessee can't run fast or have good players.

that you think a #10 recruiting ranking for Kiffin's class means anything is all we need to know. That you think Dooley's class rankings with what we have on the field right now mean anything is even better. Lets not see which players are left and how they perform. Let's look at how a 125 dweeb behind a computer rated them in highschool to judge whether or not there was individual and team speed on the field the last 2 weeks.

 

[Wylo]

that you think a #10 recruiting ranking for Kiffin's class means anything is all we need to know. That you think Dooley's class rankings with what we have on the field right now mean anything is even better. Lets not see which players are left and how they perform. Let's look at how a 125 dweeb behind a computer rated them in highschool to judge whether or not there was individual and team speed on the field the last 2 weeks.

But you sure don't mind those recruiting rankings now..

Funny.

The coaches have failed this team. They try to run a hurry up offense with the defense we have. Does that make any sense at all?

A good coach adjusts his system to fit his players. CBJ is basically throwing these poor, helpless defensive players to the wolves by not trying to control the clock at least.

That is the point I'm making. If you realize that one side is overmatched, make adjustments.

I don't see that happening, Sparty. Do you?

 

[TGVol]

For conversation sake, tell me what dc coaches jaques, greg clark, hood, miller, Jordan williams aj, sapp, brewer, moore, coleman, McNeil, and walkons in swafford, toney and max in a game against #9 and speed where we don't get our asses handed to us, and I'd be fine with a replacement

Smart, Muschamp, Chavis (of top of my head) would all easily coach our current defensive players to be immediately much more effective and not get constantly embarrassed and blown out.

Now you may say these guys are all big names and may not want to come here. Sorry but that's the type of quality CBJ needs to bring in if he wants to have success we used to have here. Or he needs to find another young upcoming guy who is less well known (i.e. perhaps similar to Wilcox) who is capable in coaching vs SEC offensive coordinators.

 

[JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!]

The entire Ryan family has been fired or asked to leave multiple times. The list of coaches that have been fired is really long. You sure you want to go that route? You may not be able to field a defensive coaching staff.
Personally, I hold the belief that what happens 5 years ago at a different place and different time of football doesn't automatically equal a repeat. I guess I understand how someone comes to that conclusion. I look at it more from the standpoint of a man and a coach learning more and knowing more than he did when he was a younger man or coach. If Jancek didn't learn anything from his first time as a DC till now, then I guess I wouldn't expect much either. I think its ridiculous to think that because he was fired by Richt when Fulmer was playing in the SEC championship, that he can't coach here for Butch. That's weak, imo. Hell, he outcoached Spurrier a few weeks ago, now you talk about something that happened 6 years ago as a point of reference.

Can you even read ? Where did I say "it automatically equals a repeat ? I said it is a fact that he was fired by a rival and that that should not be irrelevant, because it shouldn't.

Of course a coach can improve and learn from one spot to the next and that is my hope for Jancek, and maybe he will, but I've witnessed his awful performance at UGA firsthand and unfortunately so far this season I haven't seen anything by our D to be encouraged by other than a decent performance against SC. The D has had it struggles all season and it's undeniable that the D has laid an egg 3 weeks in a row. An abundance of more talented players will certainly help but will it be enough ? I hope so.

 

[Spartacavolus]

But you sure don't mind those recruiting rankings now..

Funny.

The coaches have failed this team. They try to run a hurry up offense with the defense we have. Does that make any sense at all?

A good coach adjusts his system to fit his players. CBJ is basically throwing these poor, helpless defensive players to the wolves by not trying to control the clock at least.

That is the point I'm making. If you realize that one side is overmatched, make adjustments.

I don't see that happening, Sparty. Do you?

I like that we are recruiting speed, but have said little or nothing about rankings. I do like the positive news as most football news sucks.
I do see your point about hurry up etc and would give more validity to the argument if he was a decade into coaching the team rather than a first year trying to install his system. Easier to adjust then. You know your team and players. Changing this year would just delay putting in the system that made him a successful coach.
I don't think he can or needed to come in and adjust his system for these players. Install it. Take your lumps as we expected, and be better the 2nd year in.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Smart, Muschamp, Chavis (of top of my head) would all easily coach our current defensive players to be immediately much more effective and not get constantly embarrassed and blown out.

Now you may say these guys are all big names and may not want to come here. Sorry but that's the type of quality CBJ needs to bring in if he wants to have success we used to have here. Or he needs to find another young upcoming guy who is less well known (i.e. perhaps similar to Wilcox) who is capable in coaching vs SEC offensive coordinators.

At least 2 of those have multiple NC rings so of course they have a better track record and would more than likely coachem up better.
My question was about talent though. Which coach would switch our defensive players for theirs? None. We have less nfl talent on d than any other sec team. It didn't used to be that way.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Can you even read ? Where did I say "it automatically equals a repeat ? I said it is a fact that he was fired by a rival and that that should not be irrelevant, because it shouldn't.

Of course a coach can improve and learn from one spot to the next and that is my hope for Jancek, and maybe he will, but I've witnessed his awful performance at UGA firsthand and unfortunately so far this season I haven't seen anything by our D to be encouraged by other than a decent performance against SC. The D has had it struggles all season and it's undeniable that the D has laid an egg 3 weeks in a row. An abundance of more talented players will certainly help but will it be enough ? I hope so.

Fair enough. I thought you were implying jancek won't cut it because he was already fired by richt. I have seen that argument made several times on here.

 

[TGVol]

Which coach would switch our defensive players for theirs? None. We have less nfl talent on d than any other sec team. It didn't used to be that way.

This I agree with. But it's not either or proposition (either you get a better talent in terms of players or better talent in terms of coaching). We need BOTH, and asap.

 

[CountVolcula]

Actually you can

Taking great angles to the ball will increase your speed to the play

 

[Spartacavolus]

Actually you can

Taking great angles to the ball will increase your speed to the play

I think angles is more speed and instinct than coaching. Angles are taught from day one in pee wee football and it never stops. Some kids pick it up quickly and others don't. Better, faster players just happen to have better angles.
No offense to myself, but if speed didn't matter or it was all about technique and angles, there would be more white defensive players playing in the sec.
I see Sutton playing with good football instincts on d, but nowhere else at all.