Carry Permit Holders

#129
#129
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I watch a lot of news and other than home intruder stories I never see anything about permit carrying citizens saving a life/preventing a crime with their gun while out and about in public.
Now off duty LEO are a different story because they are trained for hostile situations. My dad didnt carry when going to the grocery store but when we went in vacation he did. Im sorry but taking course one Saturday afternoon will not prepare the average person for a situation that might require a weapon.
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This statement is actually pretty accurate. You never hear about, as you call them "permit carrying citizens" saving lives because that wouldnt serve the anti-gun agenda of the mainstream media. You see, law abiding citizens who exercise thier rights to protect themselves and fellow citizens simply dont fit the image of the "armed vigilante" they want to portray. The NRA sends out a monthly publication that has stories of people who lawfully use lethal force to protect themselves but you rarely hear of these stories.

While I couldnt find a link to the NRA publication, a quick google search turned up this site.

Home*|*The Armed Citizen

And this site which basically supports the same media bias that I claim.

Unseen Self-Defense Stories - Gun Owners Of America
 
#130
#130
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I watch a lot of news and other than home intruder stories I never see anything about permit carrying citizens saving a life/preventing a crime with their gun while out and about in public.

Now off duty LEO are a different story because they are trained for hostile situations. My dad didnt carry when going to the grocery store but when we went in vacation he did. Im sorry but taking course one Saturday afternoon will not prepare the average person for a situation that might require a weapon.
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This part of the statement is very true too. My mother in law has a stainless stub nose .38 that she carries in her purse (with a permit of course) that she has never fired. Shes told me herself that she doesnt know if she would be able to hit anyone if she was forced into using it. Simply having a permit doesnt mean you will be prepared to met a threat. Thats why its important to actually practice handling your firearm on a regular basis.

So I agree, an 8 hour class isnt all you have to do, but to say that ALL CWP holders are bumbling Barney Fifes is a gross over generalization.
 
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#131
#131
IMO, the people that take jump through all the hoops to get the permit are PROBABLY not the people you should be worried about.
 
#132
#132
ShanMan said:
This part of the statement is very true too. My mother in law has a stainless stub nose .38 that she carries in her purse (with a permit of course) that she has never fired. Shes told me herself that she doesnt know if she would be able to hit anyone if she was forced into using it. Simply having a permit doesnt mean you will be prepared to met a threat. Thats why its important to actually practice handling your firearm on a regular basis.

So I agree, an 8 hour class isnt all you have to do, but to say that ALL CWP holders are bumbling Barney Fifes is a gross over generalization.
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Well, you have to shoot 48 rounds at the carry permit course. Unless you're saying she used a different gun for the class. I'm not as experienced with revolvers, but they seem so so so impractical as a self-defense weapon IMO.
 
#133
#133
Chris4Vols22 said:
Well, you have to shoot 48 rounds at the carry permit course. Unless you're saying she used a different gun for the class. I'm not as experienced with revolvers, but they seem so so so impractical as a self-defense weapon IMO.
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Yeah, she used her husbands gun to get the permit. Revolvers are great guns for inexperienced shooters as they have lower failure rates and are easier to troubleshoot vs. Semi autos (failure to feed, stove pipes etc.) With a revolver, you just keep squeezing the trigger til it stops going bang. Semi autos require a higher degree of technical expertise.
 
#134
#134
ShanMan said:
Yeah, she used her husbands gun to get the permit. Revolvers are great guns for inexperienced shooters as they have lower failure rates and are easier to troubleshoot vs. Semi autos (failure to feed, stove pipes etc.) With a revolver, you just keep squeezing the trigger til it stops going bang. Semi autos require a higher degree of technical expertise.
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I dunno. Semi-autos are a lot better than they used to be. I really don't like the triggers on revolvers. Depending on what kind of action you have, they are either super heavy or ridiculously light. No one can deny that revolvers are more dependable and easier to maintain, but ask a person who owns a newer-model Glock, Sig, S&W, etc. how often they jam up. I wish I could share my experience, but I haven't even put 1000 rounds through my Glock yet. No jams/misfires yet.
 
#135
#135
Oh yeah, and I just really don't like the stub-nose revolvers. Almost useless past 10 yards, and they're usually difficult to aim in the first place. But it doesn't really matter if you hit the target :)
 
#136
#136
Chris4Vols22 said:
I dunno. Semi-autos are a lot better than they used to be. I really don't like the triggers on revolvers. Depending on what kind of action you have, they are either super heavy or ridiculously light. No one can deny that revolvers are more dependable and easier to maintain, but ask a person who owns a newer-model Glock, Sig, S&W, etc. how often they jam up. I wish I could share my experience, but I haven't even put 1000 rounds through my Glock yet. No jams/misfires yet.
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p238 is pretty simple there is a youtube video, showing it taken apart and put back together. Very simple.
 
#137
#137
WA_Vol said:
p238 is pretty simple there is a youtube video, showing it taken apart and put back together. Very simple.
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Yeah, my G23 field strips down to 4 pieces:
Frame, slide, spring, and barrel.

Clean thoroughly, apply lube, and put the train on the tracks. It does take a solid 20-30 mins though. I'm a little OCD about keeping my piece clean and maintained. I get paranoid that I will over-lube it, so I really take my time on that part.
 
#138
#138
saw a program on discovery or one of the ilk. it discussed the average reaction time for people who handle firearms is some ridiculous amount.

their study boiled down to this, unless you train frequently you arent going to have the reaction time in an emergency.

i will try to hunt it down.

there is evidence that suggests gun ownership, more aptly, possession of firearm decreases ones ability to exercise the same amount o precaution in dangerous scenarios. ie bad neighborhood, more bravado in potential fight/flight scenarios

everyone has their opinions. media sensationlism aside the facts a i see them are such that too often guns are in the hands of people that cannot use them responsibly. thus tighter restrictions and reduction in ability to own firearms is necessary.

i understand and fully respect the constitutionality and of and our rights to bear arms. its the availability of firearms for joe public that scares me
 
#139
#139
Chris4Vols22 said:
IMO, the people that take jump through all the hoops to get the permit are PROBABLY not the people you should be worried about.
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The Zimmerman guy STILL has his permit and can go down to Walmart and buy a gun right now if he wants.
 
#140
#140
ugahater1 said:
saw a program on discovery or one of the ilk. it discussed the average reaction time for people who handle firearms is some ridiculous amount.

their study boiled down to this, unless you train frequently you arent going to have the reaction time in an emergency.
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Exactly! The reaction time for the average joe would rarely be adequate in a fight or flight situation without constant training. That doesn't mean firing off some rounds at the firing range. This means pressure situations where your life is possibly on the line.

And despite the hoops one may have to jump through to get a carry permit its still too easy.

I'm ok with owning a gun to protect your house but I don't think people should be walking around like third still the wild west.
 
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#141
#141
burntorangeVOLffle said:
Exactly! The reaction time for the average joe would rarely be adequate in a fight or flight situation without constant training. That doesn't mean firing off some rounds at the firing range. This means pressure situations where your life is possibly on the line.

And despite the hoops one may have to jump through to get a carry permit its still too easy.

I'm ok with owning a gun to protect your house but I don't think people should be walking around like third still the wild west.
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In a perfect world, guns wouldn't exist. But they do, and as long as they do, there will be junkies and idiots owning them, and walking down the street with them. It's your choice to decide if you want to be able to defend yourself or not. I honestly respect both sides of the argument.
 
#142
#142
There are also non lethal solutions to protecting yourself. When guns are drawn it never ends well and could even endanger others not involved in the altercation.
 
#143
#143
burntorangeVOLffle said:
There are also non lethal solutions to protecting yourself. When guns are drawn it never ends well and could even endanger others not involved in the altercation.
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Pepper spray? A Tazer? Kung Fu? Ok.

I respect your right to employ those measures if you want, but Im not going to risk my life or the lives of my loved ones to them.
 
#144
#144
* In 1976, the Washington, D.C. City Council passed a law generally prohibiting residents from possessing handguns and requiring that all firearms in private homes be (1) kept unloaded and (2) rendered temporally inoperable via disassembly or installation of a trigger lock. The law became operative on Sept. 24, 1976.[33] [34]

* On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, struck down this law as unconstitutional.[35]

dc.png



[36]

* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.[37]
 
#145
#145
 
#146
#146
the facts will speak to both sides of the aisle. my brother in law has no fingers on the right side of his hand, ripped off by a saw before he went to Iraq. he still owns several guns and prolly shoots better than 80% of us.

then theres the people who like trayvons parents who have to life their lives as the victims of gun violence.

youre exactly right, its an imperfect system in an imperfect world!

could be worse, could be Mexico wherw the police dont ask questions, tbey shoot! dead! honestly the only reason id ever own a gun is to protect my family while hiking or camping, fortunately i feel comfortable as is without and would feel more unease about carrying one!

luckily we live in the best country in the world where we have the choices we do. maybe im naive to believe and trust in our system and law enforcement to handle any situation with due diligence?
 
#147
#147
If a stranger tried to rob me while I was with my family I would happily hand over what ever they want before risking their lives and mine by pulling out a gun too. More often than not that criminal just wants your money, but by drawing on them you exasperate the situation. The thought of a criminal firing hastily as I reached for my weapon and it hitting my wife or child is something I could never forgive myself for.

Im going to let the permit carriers have their thread back. Ill just leave with this,I hope non of you are ever in a situation we're you need to use your weapon.
 
#148
#148
burntorangeVOLffle said:
If a stranger tried to rob me while I was with my family I would happily hand over what ever they want before risking their lives and mine by pulling out a gun too. More often than not that criminal just wants your money, but by drawing on them you exasperate the situation. The thought of a criminal firing hastily as I reached for my weapon and it hitting my wife or child is something I could never forgive myself for.

Im going to let the permit carriers have their thread back. Ill just leave with this,I hope non of you are ever in a situation we're you need to use your weapon.
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If you get robbed at gunpoint, you are basically SOL with or without a gun. A sane person would obviously not pull their gun if there's another one pointed in their face. If they're not armed, then you don't have grounds to use deadly force anyway.

And I 110% agree with you that I hope I will never have to pull mine on anyone:good!:
 
#149
#149
Chris4Vols22 said:
If you get robbed at gunpoint, you are basically SOL with or without a gun. A sane person would obviously not pull their gun if there's another one pointed in their face. If they're not armed, then you don't have grounds to use deadly force anyway.

And I 110% agree with you that I hope I will never have to pull mine on anyone:good!:
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Or a knife. Check out the 21 foot rule if you haven't
 
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