Cbj

[Other_Guy]

Yes less

Even Dooley made a bowl game his first season and so far that means Jones has done less on the field

Yeah, Dools didn't have to beat a ranked team, duh.

 

[butchna]

Learning to accept the facts and your own limitations would be a good place for you to start.

TG playing on his computer ...speaking of racism, Oskie...how's about a joke?
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[CountVolcula]

Yeah, Dools didn't have to beat a ranked team, duh.

Jones did then couldn't beat Vandy

Guess one was lack of talent and one was great coaching?

 

[OJ]

Jones did then couldn't beat Vandy

Guess one was lack of talent and one was great coaching?

Go shoot the family pet.

 

[CountVolcula]

Go shoot the family pet.

Does truth and fact bother you?

Not unusual!! Most Americans can't deal with reality. That's one reason our country is in the mess its in

 

[butchna]

Does truth and fact bother you?

Not unusual!! Most Americans can't deal with reality. That's one reason our country is in the mess its in

Your version of TRUTH AND FACTS does...I don't know how it works in the Balkans, but here in AMERICA (cue eagle cry)...We call em opinions
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[CountVolcula]

Your version of TRUTH AND FACTS does...I don't know how it works in the Balkans, but here in AMERICA (cue eagle cry)...We call em opinions
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Well, somebody's gonna be right

 

[KBVol]

5-7 just like Dooley

But, you can't compare because Jones has yet had year two and three

That's like comparing Dooley's first year to Jones' 4th year if he gets it

You have to compare apples to apples

What did each coach do in their first year at UT?

Dooley: 6-6 regular season with 2 OT loss to North Carolina

Jones: 5-7 no bowl

Jones did however win over a ranked opponent his first year and Dooley came close but screwed the pooch with 13 on the field

Why not? The comparison actually shouldn't be fair to Jones, yet it favors Jones. You think anybody's comparing Malzahn's first year to Chizik's last year down in Auburn?

I can compare what Butch accomplished his first year, his record, his win vs a ranked opponent, vs what Dooley had accomplished after having 3 years and an absolute ton more offensive NFL talent and very little if any difference on defense. I can compare Jones' 1st year accomplishments with the tire fire that Dooley left him, against the the absolute mess that was Dooley's 3rd year, which was by then completely of Dooley's own making.

Evidently, the longer Dooley stayed at UT the worse things became. His best year was his first year. How is that possible if Kiffin left him with absolutely nothing/the worst situation that any coach has ever had to ensure like some on here say? Perhaps Jones follows suit and the 2014 and 2015 teams get progressively worse/less successful. I doubt that happens but if it does Jones will get roasted by me and everybody else and he'll deserve it.... just like Dooley. We'll see

And for the record, Dooley only won 4 games his last year, Jones won 5 this year. And there's no way I'm assuming that team, which completely quit on him vs Vandy, beats Kentucky with him on the sidelines....especially since that Kentucky team beat him the previous year with a WR at QB ... after the team quit on him that game too.

 

[Oskie Volum]

The simple fact that so many of yall seriously can not comprehend the HUGE difference in the "stench" Dooley was left and the "stench" Jones was left is the reason why we'll all argue about this for yrs and yrs. Has nothing to do with love for Dooley, but my take on his era at UT.

And for the record anyone that was at the LSU game, and anywhere close to the field would in no way hold that chaotic moment against anyone. Cause that's what it was. I know all yall eJesus' on here have never had anything go wrong but you know what...it happens to regular folks.
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[KBVol]

The simple fact that so many of yall seriously can not comprehend the HUGE difference in the "stench" Dooley was left and the "stench" Jones was left is the reason why we'll all argue about this for yrs and yrs. Has nothing to do with love for Dooley, but my take on his era at UT.

And for the record anyone that was at the LSU game, and anywhere close to the field would in no way hold that chaotic moment against anyone. Cause that's what it was. I know all yall eJesus' on here have never had anything go wrong but you know what...it happens to regular folks.
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The reason it's not comprehended by 99.8% of the posters on here is because it's not true.

 

[OJ]

Does truth and fact bother you?

Not unusual!! Most Americans can't deal with reality. That's one reason our country is in the mess its in

I worked hand in hand with cops for thirty years. Please don't tell me what reality is.

 

[sjt18]

Jones did then couldn't beat Vandy

Guess one was lack of talent and one was great coaching?

Thanks for standing up against double standards. I think you and I would both hope for Jones to be the next coming of Neyland... but folks who just won't deal with what happened this past season are just incredible.

 

[TGVol]

The reason it's not comprehended by 99.8% of the posters on here is because it's an IQ related issue.

Fixed.

 

[sjt18]

The reason it's not comprehended by 99.8% of the posters on here is because it's not true.

Yes. By any measure it is. 99.7% of the posters here don't want to believe it because it isn't convenient to letting them deny the shortcomings of Jones and his staff in their first season.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley's first year was also better any way you want to look at it than Jones'. Jones may end up better. We all hope he does. But his first team was marginally worse on the field.

Oh, I better give a nod to the USCe win before someone has a cow. I guess there is ONE way you can cling to the idea that Jones performed better in year one.

 

[Wylo]

So now I understand. You're a Dooley guy. The first coach in UT history with 3 consecutive losing seasons thing didn't do it for you. I got it....now all the dislike for Jones makes sense.

I'll say this. If Dooley should've gotten more than 3 years after the mess Kiffin left, Jones better damn sure get more than 4-5 after the utter disaster Dooley left. There's 2 sides for you.

I couldn't stand Dooley. I was called names for not swinging from his junk like many of you. I'm anti-bad coaching.. Last year there was more bad than good. I admit it, you don't.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Dooley's first year was also better any way you want to look at it than Jones'. Jones may end up better. We all hope he does. But his first team was marginally worse on the field.

The amazing thing to me is that this concerns so few here on VN. I'm not saying that Jones won't be successful in the end but all we have to judge by is this past season. By Butch's own set goals, it was a failure. Yet, so many here try to spin it into an absolute success. I am willing to bet that if someone would ask Butch his thoughts on this season away from any cameras or media and dropped the politician act and were completely honest, he would sound like a "negavol" to these folks.

 

[Easttnken]

The way I see it, there was both good and bad, from both coaches and players.

I have to think things would have gone much better this year if we still had Bray, Hunter, CP, Maggitt, Couch, Saulsberry, etc. Losing that much productivity, experience, and leadership would effect a lot of teams.

Having to play 3 different QB's would hamper the growth of a young receiver group, as well as impact the consistency of the O line blocking.

Young or inexperienced QB"s would have benefitted greatly from having experienced receivers to work with.

The guys missing from the defense took away from experience, depth, etc on that side of the ball as well.

I said before, all of this made it seem like a perfect storm for inconsistency. Hopefully as players gain experience, have more time in the system, and more depth is added, on field production matches expectations.

 

[CountVolcula]

The amazing thing to me is that this concerns so few here on VN. I'm not saying that Jones won't be successful in the end but all we have to judge by is this past season. By Butch's own set goals, it was a failure. Yet, so many here try to spin it into an absolute success. I am willing to bet that if someone would ask Butch his thoughts on this season away from any cameras or media and dropped the politician act and were completely honest, he would sound like a "negavol" to these folks.

He has admitted so in his press conferences after Oregon and other blow outs

 

[Oskie Volum]

The way I see it, there was both good and bad, from both coaches and players.

I have to think things would have gone much better this year if we still had Bray, Hunter, CP, Maggitt, Couch, Saulsberry, etc. Losing that much productivity, experience, and leadership would effect a lot of teams.

Having to play 3 different QB's would hamper the growth of a young receiver group, as well as impact the consistency of the O line blocking.

Young or inexperienced QB"s would have benefitted greatly from having experienced receivers to work with.

The guys missing from the defense took away from experience, depth, etc on that side of the ball as well.

I said before, all of this made it seem like a perfect storm for inconsistency. Hopefully as players gain experience, have more time in the system, and more depth is added, on field production matches expectations.

These all r all understandable and I have no issue with ur pts here.

Here's my deal though...imo those are all football HC issues CBJ had/has to figure out. Now when Dooley came on board he not only dealt with many similar issues u mention above but he also dealt with a team full of players that experienced the firing of the coach that brought them in, and then burned by the guy they bought into. Imagine being the guy coming into that psychological mess and having to be the guy that creates rules and order that let's be honest neither Fulmer of Kiffen had. No one ever likes that guy...trust me I know. Trying to find and fix all the neglect over the yrs not only in the football program but also in the Athletic Dept nvr makes u the most loved person no matter how nice u r.

Can go on and on in the differences. Not lies or made up just known issues.

See my take is, and always has been that Dooley walked into a situation where he couldn't be JUST the HC, and only fix/develop actual football stuff..ie...like what u described above. This is all that CBJ walked into.

Now dooley imo came in as roughly 70/30 AD/HC ratio. Cleaning up a lot of off the field stuff both in the program and AD. For goodness sake the guy got a new AD in his second year. That alone is a big difference than what CBJ has had to deal with. To me, and again IMHO, this past year would have been the first year I could have been able to judge dooley as a HC only as he would have been able to only be a HC. Mainly cause most of negatives were finally out this year. Jeez he would have most likely had a fall camp he didn't have to kick a TOP player off the team for off the field issues. Also, not wasting time with things like finishing the new athletic facilities etc. Another big difference that CBJ benefited from not having to deal with it.

My thing is that people only look at the Dooley era as only "on the field" where he had to deal with WAY to much off of it to make the on the field work right. What CBJ is benefiting from more than anything...and getting paid A LOT more too.
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[wolfe]

CBJ has done an excellent job in his first year as UT coach, especially when you factor in the potential 2014 signing class. He seems very well respected throughout college football. With that being said, do you think Penn State's national search committee will reach out to CBJ? I have read that James Franklin is high on their list. I think CBJ would not interview even if contacted, but it might be even more positive national exposure if CBJ was contacted and turned down the interview. What do you guys think?

A 5-7 coach contacted by PSU? Sandusky has a better chance of coaching there than Jones.

 

[KBVol]

Yes. By any measure it is. 99.7% of the posters here don't want to believe it because it isn't convenient to letting them deny the shortcomings of Jones and his staff in their first season.

I fully understand Jones' shortcomings. Was as disappointed as you were about the team peaking during the SCar game and getting the brakes beat off them the next 3, followed by the disappointing Vandy loss. As you know, I've also been very critical of Azzani... I see no evidence that he's done much with the WR group.... the pathetic Vandy performance was the best evidence.

Yet, I don't agree that Dooley was given a more difficult hand than he left Jones. I've read all the arguments and disagree with them. I believe firmly believe that the damage Dooley did to this program can't be measured just by looking at the roster, looking at player ratings, etc. There were more aspects of the program left in shambles by Dooley that reach beyond the roster .... and before anybody starts, I'm not making excuses for why Jones was 5-7, that's on him.

I find it interesting that Dooley's best year as coach was his first, with what he was left by Kiffin. His teams then got progressively worse, winning only 4 of 11 games with him on the sidelines his 3rd and last year.

If the program was in such utter disrepair by the year Kiffin spent as HC, why did Dooley actually have the most success year 1? Wouldn't it stand to reason that it had to get better since he took over such a train wreck, that there was nowhere to go but up? Dooley was a pathetic coach, most all of us agree there, but shouldn't we have seen incremental improvements in the W-L record?

 

[Easttnken]

These all r all understandable and I have no issue with ur pts here.

Here's my deal though...imo those are all football HC issues CBJ had/has to figure out. Now when Dooley came on board he not only dealt with many similar issues u mention above but he also dealt with a team full of players that experienced the firing of the coach that brought them in, and then burned by the guy they bought into. Imagine being the guy coming into that psychological mess and having to be the guy that creates rules and order that let's be honest neither Fulmer of Kiffen had. No one ever likes that guy...trust me I know. Trying to find and fix all the neglect over the yrs not only in the football program but also in the Athletic Dept nvr makes u the most loved person no matter how nice u r.

Can go on and on in the differences. Not lies or made up just known issues.

See my take is, and always has been that Dooley walked into a situation where he couldn't be JUST the HC, and only fix/develop actual football stuff..ie...like what u described above. This is all that CBJ walked into.

Now dooley imo came in as roughly 70/30 AD/HC ratio. Cleaning up a lot of off the field stuff both in the program and AD. For goodness sake the guy got a new AD in his second year. That alone is a big difference than what CBJ has had to deal with. To me, and again IMHO, this past year would have been the first year I could have been able to judge dooley as a HC only as he would have been able to only be a HC. Mainly cause most of negatives were finally out this year. Jeez he would have most likely had a fall camp he didn't have to kick a TOP player off the team for off the field issues. Also, not wasting time with things like finishing the new athletic facilities etc. Another big difference that CBJ benefited from not having to deal with it.

My thing is that people only look at the Dooley era as only "on the field" where he had to deal with WAY to much off of it to make the on the field work right. What CBJ is benefiting from more than anything...and getting paid A LOT more too.
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Like we discussed the other day, I have no problem giving Dooley credit for cleaning up off field issues in the program. I agree that his national recruiting was good to great at times. But, he and his staff did a lot of damage to UT's instate recruiting, as well as their relationships with many high schools and coaches.

Just as I said before, I'm sure Dooley has a good football mind, he's an intelligent guy, and does have redeemable qualities. It's just my personal opinion that he is a much Administrator than an on field coach.

The sad fact is that his players quit on him, he lost control of the team, or at least some of the key players. Had Dooley hired virtually any other DC, to compliment the offense we had last year, he's still the coach. But that Sal DC hire, combined with the other apparent on field misses led to the inevitable.

 

[Other_Guy]

I can't fathom how people say Dooley did better than Jones his 1st year.

Dooley drew Ole Miss.

Butch drew Auburn. He HAD to beat a ranked team to make a bowl (altho I will credit Dooley they might have won his bowl had the refs not screwed up).

Then go look at the records of the teams Dools did face. SCjr

I do think Dools was wise in retaining Chaney, but if Jones is better off with his guy I can't blame him.

 

[Other_Guy]

And Butch losing to Vandy is equivilent to Dools losing to Georgia that year. So idk why we're even debating this.

Butch didn't do great but he did what we figured he would and it wasn't a train wrech with the SCjr win. So let's forget the past and stop comparing him.

Let's compare him to Kiffins 1st year!