Cbj

[sjt18]

Oh, before we get too far... Dooley kept his teams in the game with Bama and Oregon through one half. Talent caught up after that. Those games were over by the end of the 1st Qtr this year.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Oh, before we get too far... Dooley kept his teams in the game with Bama and Oregon through one half. Talent caught up after that. Those games were over by the end of the 1st Qtr this year.

Damn you sjt for lessening my hate for Dooley.
Damn you and your facts!

 

[sjt18]

What is so difficult for some to see that the quoted is the only point that matters in this whole debate?

The debate is more about avoiding that point than anything else... Somehow these guys think they've "won" if they can prove that Jones was as good or a little better than Dooley. Even if they "win"... they still lose.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Glad I have been too busy to get into this argument.

Seriously?

You guys are arguing the merits of a 6-7 season versus a 5-7 season?

Here is a solution: they both sucked and neither should be considered acceptable at UT.

Butch better hope this recruiting class is the salvation for all that woes Vol Nation like some on here think or his tenure may not last much longer than Dooley's.

 

[Other_Guy]

Sorry to anyone if they thought I was saying Jones did better than Dools his 1st year so we should rejoice. Another poster earlier had said Dooley did better that Jones in his 1st year cuz he went to a bowl. I was merely pointing out that Dools didn't have to beat a ranked team to make a bowl. So that point was lame on his part. I didn't start comparing the schedules to say Jones is good or should get a pass, he brought it up.

5-7 is not acceptable but it is what most coaches would have ended up at.

 

[CountVolcula]

Lets explore more deeply into Jones' schedule at Cincinnati

In 2010, he was 4-8

Wins over

Indiana State= 6-6
Miami OH= 9-3
Louisville= 6-6(brought up by many as a great accomplishment)
Rutgers= 4-8

Combined 25-24 record

Loses to

UConn= 8-4
Pitt= 7-5
W Virginia= 9-3
Syracuse= 7-5
USF= 7-5
Oklahoma= 11-2
North Carolina= 6-6
Fresno State= 7-5

Combined 62-35

2011, he was 9-3 regular season

Wins over

Austin Peay= 3-9
Akron= 1-11
NC State= 7-5
Miami OH= 4-8
Louisville= 7-5
USF= 5-7
Pitt= 6-6
Syracuse=5-7
UConn= 5-7

Combined 43-65

Loses to

Tennessee=5-7
Rutgers= 8-4
W Virginia= 9-3

Combined 22-14


2012, he was again 9-3

Wins over

Pitt=6-6
Delaware State= 6-6
Virginia Tech= 6-6(again brought up as great accomplishment)
Miami OH= 4-8
Fordham= 6-6
Syracuse= 7-5( shared 4 way tie for Big East Conference Championship)
Temple= 4-8
USF= 3-9
UConn=5-7

Combined 47-61

Loses against

Toledo= 9-3
Louisville= 10-2
Rutgers= 9-3

Combined 28-8
So, you see as the level of competition weakened, his overall record improved. Still not enough to win the Big East outright

His signature wins that everyone brings up were against Louisville and Virginia Tech, yet both teams were a combined 19-17 the two years he beat them.

Folks, no matter how you slice it, Jones benefited from an extremely weak schedule. Something he won't have the benefit of at UT.

 

[Wylo]

Lets explore more deeply into Jones' schedule at Cincinnati

In 2010, he was 4-8

Wins over

Indiana State= 6-6
Miami OH= 9-3
Louisville= 6-6(brought up by many as a great accomplishment)
Rutgers= 4-8

Combined 25-24 record

Loses to

UConn= 8-4
Pitt= 7-5
W Virginia= 9-3
Syracuse= 7-5
USF= 7-5
Oklahoma= 11-2
North Carolina= 6-6
Fresno State= 7-5

Combined 62-35

2011, he was 9-3 regular season

Wins over

Austin Peay= 3-9
Akron= 1-11
NC State= 7-5
Miami OH= 4-8
Louisville= 7-5
USF= 5-7
Pitt= 6-6
Syracuse=5-7
UConn= 5-7

Combined 43-65

Loses to

Tennessee=5-7
Rutgers= 8-4
W Virginia= 9-3

Combined 22-14


2012, he was again 9-3

Wins over

Pitt=6-6
Delaware State= 6-6
Virginia Tech= 6-6(again brought up as great accomplishment)
Miami OH= 4-8
Fordham= 6-6
Syracuse= 7-5( shared 4 way tie for Big East Conference Championship)
Temple= 4-8
USF= 3-9
UConn=5-7

Combined 47-61

Loses against

Toledo= 9-3
Louisville= 10-2
Rutgers= 9-3

Combined 28-8
So, you see as the level of competition weakened, his overall record improved. Still not enough to win the Big East outright

His signature wins that everyone brings up were against Louisville and Virginia Tech, yet both teams were a combined 19-17 the two years he beat them.

Folks, no matter how you slice it, Jones benefited from an extremely weak schedule. Something he won't have the benefit of at UT.

This will be spun in just a matter of minutes. Good job on putting the numbers out there. It shows any reasonable person that they should be leery and take a wait and see approach before anointing Butch as the next Neyland.

 

[sjt18]

Glad I have been too busy to get into this argument.

Seriously?

You guys are arguing the merits of a 6-7 season versus a 5-7 season?

For some of us, quite the contrary. We are arguing the demerits of both. Some are trying to use the comparison to claim the coaches did a good job this year and everything is fine and dandy with their ability to compete at the SEC level.

Here is a solution: they both sucked and neither should be considered acceptable at UT.

Dooley ended up proving that. Jones has not. My concern is that he was at best "equal" to Dooley's first year in his first year.

Butch better hope this recruiting class is the salvation for all that woes Vol Nation like some on here think or his tenure may not last much longer than Dooley's.

That's true. And he still has to win to keep that recruiting momentum going.

 

[CountVolcula]

This will be spun in just a matter of minutes. Good job on putting the numbers out there. It shows any reasonable person that they should be leery and take a wait and see approach before anointing Butch as the next Neyland.

You will also notice that in 3 years during the regular season, he only beat one team with more than 8 wins

 

[sjt18]

Sorry to anyone if they thought I was saying Jones did better than Dools his 1st year so we should rejoice. Another poster earlier had said Dooley did better that Jones in his 1st year cuz he went to a bowl. I was merely pointing out that Dools didn't have to beat a ranked team to make a bowl. So that point was lame on his part. I didn't start comparing the schedules to say Jones is good or should get a pass, he brought it up.

5-7 is not acceptable but it is what most coaches would have ended up at.

Jones didn't have to beat a ranked team to make a bowl. We now know that UF was terrible and unworthy of being ranked. UGA is unlikely to finish ranked with the loss to Nebraska.

 

[sjt18]

You will also notice that in 3 years during the regular season, he only beat one team with more than 8 wins

USCe was his first win over a ranked opponent.

One thing that gets skipped is that the '13 Vols were the most athleticially talented team Jones has ever coached.

 

[Boca Vol]

You will also notice that in 3 years during the regular season, he only beat one team with more than 8 wins

And most on here throw this stat out against Franklin as to why he's over-rated. Again, it's like Paris Hilton making fun of Kim Kardashian for being a slut.

Edit...I guess the S. Carolina game gives him 1.

 

[oregonvol]

Personally, I think Butch did better than Dooley did his first year. I'll take a win over a top 10 team and an utterly embarrassing loss over just winning the games you are supposed to win and making a minor bowl and losing it.

But the fact that it's so close (not just between Butch's first year and Dooley's first year, but really between Butch's first year and even Dooley's worst year) is pretty scary.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Glad I have been too busy to get into this argument.

Seriously?

You guys are arguing the merits of a 6-7 season versus a 5-7 season?

Here is a solution: they both sucked and neither should be considered acceptable at UT.

Butch better hope this recruiting class is the salvation for all that woes Vol Nation like some on here think or his tenure may not last much longer than Dooley's.

This is a great post.

 

[KBVol]

Lets explore more deeply into Jones' schedule at Cincinnati

In 2010, he was 4-8

Wins over

Indiana State= 6-6
Miami OH= 9-3
Louisville= 6-6(brought up by many as a great accomplishment)
Rutgers= 4-8

Combined 25-24 record

Loses to

UConn= 8-4
Pitt= 7-5
W Virginia= 9-3
Syracuse= 7-5
USF= 7-5
Oklahoma= 11-2
North Carolina= 6-6
Fresno State= 7-5

Combined 62-35

2011, he was 9-3 regular season

Wins over

Austin Peay= 3-9
Akron= 1-11
NC State= 7-5
Miami OH= 4-8
Louisville= 7-5
USF= 5-7
Pitt= 6-6
Syracuse=5-7
UConn= 5-7

Combined 43-65

Loses to

Tennessee=5-7
Rutgers= 8-4
W Virginia= 9-3

Combined 22-14


2012, he was again 9-3

Wins over

Pitt=6-6
Delaware State= 6-6
Virginia Tech= 6-6(again brought up as great accomplishment)
Miami OH= 4-8
Fordham= 6-6
Syracuse= 7-5( shared 4 way tie for Big East Conference Championship)
Temple= 4-8
USF= 3-9
UConn=5-7

Combined 47-61

Loses against

Toledo= 9-3
Louisville= 10-2
Rutgers= 9-3

Combined 28-8
So, you see as the level of competition weakened, his overall record improved. Still not enough to win the Big East outright

His signature wins that everyone brings up were against Louisville and Virginia Tech, yet both teams were a combined 19-17 the two years he beat them.

Folks, no matter how you slice it, Jones benefited from an extremely weak schedule. Something he won't have the benefit of at UT.

Teams Butch beat at Cincy had 53% win pct
Teams Franklin beat at VU had 33% win pct

Teams Butch lost to @ Cincy had 66% win pct
Teams Franklin lost to @ VU had 76% win pct

Looks like a wash to me, at best.

Point is, you can't on one hand say Franklin is a very good to great coach and no UT fan wants to acknowledge it. And then say Butch's record at Cincy was vs JV competition and didn't mean anything.

The teams Butch beat had a much better win% (20 pct pts) than the teams Franklin beat. Conversely, Franklin's losses came vs teams who a better win% (10 pct pts) than Butch's losses.

If you want to handpick the teams that Butch's Cincy teams played, go ahead, that's fine. I'll remind of the great teams on Franklin's schedule the last 3 years.....Elon, Presbyterian, Army, UConn, Wake Forest, UMass, UAB.... not to mention a 3-9 Auburn, a couple of 2-10 Kentucky teams, etc....

 

[thadolphinman]

My friend and I had this same kind of discussion about Saban and Fulmer's overall record. The teams that Fulmer were a combined 20 games over .500, while Saban's were slightly over .500. I think it was by about 20 games. I bet if you were to take a look at most great coaches records it would look very similar to that.

The argument about Dooley vs. CBJ was never over whether or not CBJ's results or Dooley's results were acceptable or successful. 5-7 or 6-7 is never acceptable at Tennessee. My view of success will never be less than at least 9 games, but than can vary based on the expectations of the team. Such is the case this year.

 

[Other_Guy]

Jones didn't have to beat a ranked team to make a bowl. We now know that UF was terrible and unworthy of being ranked. UGA is unlikely to finish ranked with the loss to Nebraska.

So the rash amount of injuries mean nothing to how badly they ended up? It's your opinion that Florida was unworthy, it's my opinion that Florida would still be ranked had they not been beat up. Same for Georgia. Tennessee played both of those teams before they were dismantled. Come on, Vandy beat them both. Had Tennessee caught them a few weeks later and still lost i'd say in a heartbeat Jones failed miserably.

Kinda like Auburn looked pretty bad against LSU. They're a different team now. But hey, I see where your coming from. Again I wasn't pointing this out, I was responding to another poster who brought up performances. Just don't see how Dooley did better simply because he notched a 6th win. They both didn't do too well obviously. Altho I think Florida will be back to at least 8 wins (haven't looked at schedule), I will open the door leading out of the CBJ party if he loses to Florida next year.

 

[tm3]

Personally, I think Butch did better than Dooley did his first year. I'll take a win over a top 10 team and an utterly embarrassing loss over just winning the games you are supposed to win and making a minor bowl and losing it.

But the fact that it's so close (not just between Butch's first year and Dooley's first year, but really between Butch's first year and even Dooley's worst year) is pretty scary.

Not to pile on, but more first year factoids ....

CDD had only 65 scholarship players. CBJ had 83 iirc.

With about 15 days to recruit, CDD signed a top 10 class. With about 60 days to recruit, CBJ signed a top 30 class.

 

[CountVolcula]

Not to pile on, but more first year factoids ....

CDD had only 65 scholarship players. CBJ had 83 iirc.

With about 15 days to recruit, CDD signed a top 10 class. With about 60 days to recruit, CBJ signed a top 30 class.

Ohh!!

 

[UTRavens]

Not to pile on, but more first year factoids ....

CDD had only 65 scholarship players. CBJ had 83 iirc.

With about 15 days to recruit, CDD signed a top 10 class. With about 60 days to recruit, CBJ signed a top 30 class.

Nothing misleading about this post, guys!

 

[Wylo]

Not to pile on, but more first year factoids ....

CDD had only 65 scholarship players. CBJ had 83 iirc.

With about 15 days to recruit, CDD signed a top 10 class. With about 60 days to recruit, CBJ signed a top 30 class.

this is truth

 

[Other_Guy]

Not to pile on, but more first year factoids ....

CDD had only 65 scholarship players. CBJ had 83 iirc.

With about 15 days to recruit, CDD signed a top 10 class. With about 60 days to recruit, CBJ signed a top 30 class.

Sorry, no useful information wanted here.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Some athletic department is going to steal you from Taco Bell one of these days
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Seriously man?!? Do u really look in the mirror in the morning, and at ur life and think u deserve to take personal jabs at people u don't know??

U seem to enjoy taking jabs at me and don't really put much out there. So i'd like to know a bit about u...so for starters please tell me the origins of ur UT fandom. No fan is better than the other imo, but I do think a fans beginnings tells a lot about their opinion on situations. Thx bud.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Oskie Volum]

Not to pile on, but more first year factoids ....

CDD had only 65 scholarship players. CBJ had 83 iirc.

With about 15 days to recruit, CDD signed a top 10 class. With about 60 days to recruit, CBJ signed a top 30 class.

Glad someone else finally mentioned this. I wanted to earlier but got busy, and let's face it apparently I'm some some dummy that makes tacos for a living. Therefore it wouldn't mean anything from me.

The roster depletion dooley had to deal with was no joke. People complain how he didn't leave enough players but don't consider how far behind he had to replenish from. Having to kick off players for issues didn't help either. Then throw the NCAA penalties he had against him too. At no time did Dooley have the opportunity to sign anywhere near 30+ players.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[MustafaRasta]

Glad someone else finally mentioned this. I wanted to earlier but got busy, and let's face it apparently I'm some some dummy that makes tacos for a living. Therefore it wouldn't mean anything from me.

The roster depletion dooley had to deal with was no joke. People complain how he didn't leave enough players but don't consider how far behind he had to replenish from. Having to kick off players for issues didn't help either. Then throw the NCAA penalties he had against him too. At no time did Dooley have the opportunity to sign anywhere near 30+ players.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Dooley did a nice job keeping a Kiffin class intact. After that, nothing to impressive. In fact, by now it's common knowledge that he isolated every in state HS coach and many of the kids we have now in this top class would have never even considered Tennessee under CDD. Butch almost nabbed Von Bell(who had a pick as a true freshman for Ohio St in their bowl game) a stud athlete that Dooley didn't even recruit.

Think outside the box