Cbj

[Trakentombstone]

After Season one here are my thoughts: 5-7 record, QB carousel, Beat USCe, Defense was mediocre at best, Vandy Loss, Offense looked okay.

All in all Year 1 under CBJ was a 4/10, yes the atmosphere on campus is very high and buzzing, the recruiting is very great! He got one sig win over SC but didnt have a winning season and didnt make a bowl. There is a lot to work on and prepare for going into 2014, but butch came into a school and.had to use what he had to work with. Once he gets the players who can run his system there will be a lot of BOOMING at the University of Tennessee!!!!

I support Coach Butch Jones 110% he is our future!

 

[Wylo]

What games did they give up?

"Giving up" and "getting stomped" are not synonymous.

Stop bringing up his yearly salary. That's irrelevant.

I'm not comparing him to Dooley or Kiffin. I'm done with that. I'm speaking on strictly Butch Jones.

You didn't answer my question, though. Can you change the mental makeup of a losing team in a year? With arguably the most difficult schedule in the nation? The answer is no.

yes! you can. he had all offseason and spring practice. he had plenty of time to prepare them. they didn't need to be world beaters. they just needed to show up and be competitive. They allowed near historic numbers to several teams. They choked on the biggest game of the season vs.Vandy. They had a bye week to prepare for Vandy and looked like a big east team vs. them. That is 100% on this staff.

 

[LotteryPick]

yes! you can. he had all offseason and spring practice. he had plenty of time to prepare them. they didn't need to be world beaters. they just needed to show up and be competitive. They allowed near historic numbers to several teams. They choked on the biggest game of the season vs.Vandy. They had a bye week to prepare for Vandy and looked like a big east team vs. them. That is 100% on this staff.

It's on both the staff and the players.

You ignore losing North. It's been said our 3rd or 4th string QB injured his thumb during the game.

You can't change the mentality of a team that's been accustomed to losing for so long in one season.

They never gave up, they just aren't good enough yet. The staff or the players. They both have a lot of room to grow.

 

[87Vol]

5-7 under any circumstance deserves no raise or extension. If he flirts, and I don't think he will, I'd simply show him the door. And in this case, I wouldn't be saying anything bad about Jones.
CBJ has chosen to present himself a certain way. I'd like to think that this is genuine and not just some sales pitch. The way he has presented himself is that THIS is his dream job, he knew the struggle, and said, "I'm your man, and I aint leaving until the job is done." So, I'm taking him at his word.
So, hypothetically speaking, if he were to flirt with other jobs or attempt to milk a raise or extension, then he is not who he says he is. And in that case, UT would be better to cut ties now. Again, I don't think this is who CBJ is, and I doubt we have any drama as far as other jobs go.

I agree 100% !!! Good post.

 

[butchna]

Glad someone else finally mentioned this. I wanted to earlier but got busy, and let's face it apparently I'm some some dummy that makes tacos for a living. Therefore it wouldn't mean anything from me.

The roster depletion dooley had to deal with was no joke. People complain how he didn't leave enough players but don't consider how far behind he had to replenish from. Having to kick off players for issues didn't help either. Then throw the NCAA penalties he had against him too. At no time did Dooley have the opportunity to sign anywhere near 30+ players.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Gave you a rare like Oskie...for the "dummy that makes tacos for a living" comment ost-4-1090547912:...You got some funny in you...when you're not trying so hard eace2:

 

[MustafaRasta]

some

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

We pay Jones over $3 million a year to win. Part of winning is changing the losing mentality into a winning one. This team gave up in games, just like they did with Dooley.

So I guess that should have been accomplished in 1 season? Kind of hard to change the losing mentality when players with that attitude still exist.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

So, are we saying that in order to lose the losing mentality we have to wait for the players with said mentality to leave?

If Butch and staff has changed the atmosphere around the program to a positive like so many have stated, the loser mentality argument doesn't hold up.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So, are we saying that in order to lose the losing mentality we have to wait for the players with said mentality to leave?

If Butch and staff has changed the atmosphere around the program to a positive like so many have stated, the loser mentality argument doesn't hold up.

Like I said its hard to erase a losing mentality in just one season. Let's see what happens this season.

 

[CountVolcula]

Like I said its hard to erase a losing mentality in just one season. Let's see what happens this season.

The players don't have a losing mentality

They just haven't been shown how to win

 

[oregonvol]

So I guess that should have been accomplished in 1 season? Kind of hard to change the losing mentality when players with that attitude still exist.

No one expected 10 wins. Hardly anyone even expected 8. But is it really asking too much to improve by a single game over the previous regime (aka, the worst coaching staff, statistically, in program history)? I'm sorry but it's not.

And why are we always talking about the bare minimum and "reasonable" expectations anyway? Coaches in this league have to achieve extraordinary things in order to survive. It wasn't reasonable to expect Malzahn to win the SEC this year. It wasn't reasonable to expect Saban to have Alabama completely turned around by year 2. It wasn't reasonable to expect James Franklin to take over a 2-10 program and beat all conference rivals and make a bowl every year. These are the folks Butch has to compete against. This is why he makes 3 million a year. His job is to do extraordinary things. Otherwise, you're not going to make it in this league long term.

 

[Boca Vol]

Do you think you can take players from a previous regime, who have been losing their entire time at UT, and change their mental makeup in a season? Because I don't. It takes time.

I think you and I agree on the ultimate outlook of UT football, but I don't think this stuff happens after one season.

Go back to the off-season last year and look at the Tweets from the coaches and players. This place was besides itself with enthusiasm and how much Butch "gets it!"

So either the attitude of the team had changed or they were lying.

What games did they give up?

"Giving up" and "getting stomped" are not synonymous.

Stop bringing up his yearly salary. That's irrelevant.

I'm not comparing him to Dooley or Kiffin. I'm done with that. I'm speaking on strictly Butch Jones.

You didn't answer my question, though. Can you change the mental makeup of a losing team in a year? With arguably the most difficult schedule in the nation? The answer is no.

You must not have heard Fuad Reveiz's rant on the postgame show after the Auburn game. He said the team quit playing.

So, are we saying that in order to lose the losing mentality we have to wait for the players with said mentality to leave?

If Butch and staff has changed the atmosphere around the program to a positive like so many have stated, the loser mentality argument doesn't hold up.

Good post! Again, if these posters who are using the "losing mentality" excuse would read the "tweets" thread that's posted at the top of this page they would see something that contradicts their beliefs.

 

[sjt18]

Do you think you can take players from a previous regime, who have been losing their entire time at UT, and change their mental makeup in a season? Because I don't. It takes time.

I think you and I agree on the ultimate outlook of UT football, but I don't think this stuff happens after one season.

The very simple answer to your first question is yes. That is based on both observation and experience.

When a good leader takes over from someone who failed, there is almost always an immediate impact on morale and more importantly "hope". It is far more difficult to get "buy in" for a change in attitude or anything else from the followers of a leader that was considered by some as "good" or successful. Saban for Shula makes a good example. Shula wasn't a championship coach but he wasn't hated by his team. Many of them resisted Saban's changes.

The more negative there is before the new leader arrives, the more improvements will be appreciated. If the reports of how hated and disrespected Dooley was by the team are true then there should have been massive momentum for Jones coming in.

So yes. If Dooley is responsible due to some "loser" attitude for tanking the program... and I'd agree that was a factor... then it should have in fact been EASIER for Jones to get movement from where they were.


I don't expect the end goal to occur in one year. I do expect tangible improvement in performance if they are indeed a better staff. I believe Jones is a better HC than Dooley from a leadership standpoint. I am not sure he is as smart about who he surrounds himself with OR about strategy/gameplanning.

Dooley failed because of his lack of people skills. Jones is magnetic and smart about people. Dooley however was a very smart guy. Jones has already done some unwise things like perhaps his choice of DC, starting Peterman, and game strategy vs Vandy.

But we didn't see anything like the kind of improvement we should have expected if this is an elite staff capable of "rising to the top" in the SEC. At the very best, they treaded water this year. That's not good much less great.

 

[sjt18]

What games did they give up?

Oregon for certain. Auburn more than likely. IMHO, the coaches simply did not give them a gameplan that would allow them to compete in a meaningful way in those games or Bama/Mizzou.

"Giving up" and "getting stomped" are not synonymous.

If they didn't quit then you have to question the game planning and playcalling since there were teams with less talent who competed better against all four of the teams that blew UT out.

 

[CountVolcula]

Oregon for certain. Auburn more than likely. IMHO, the coaches simply did not give them a gameplan that would allow them to compete in a meaningful way in those games or Bama/Mizzou.

If they didn't quit then you have to question the game planning and playcalling since there were teams with less talent who competed better against all four of the teams that blew UT out.

Well, its surely can't be coaching and game planning. Its that our 4* players are not really 4* players

 

[Other_Guy]

If not for Vandy and the lay downs against Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn... I would have called UGa a "win" for the coaches. They outcoached UGA. I agree that the fumble likely kept UT from winning. But I gave them credit at the time for the job they did in that game.

Maybe marginally but not by enough to excuse what we saw. Six wins and a bowl was a VERY reasonable "bar" for this team.

No, it doesn't excuse what we saw, I agree. However, as bad as this team is its no wonder they lost a game they shouldn't have.

 

[Other_Guy]

The very simple answer to your first question is yes. That is based on both observation and experience.

When a good leader takes over from someone who failed, there is almost always an immediate impact on morale and more importantly "hope". It is far more difficult to get "buy in" for a change in attitude or anything else from the followers of a leader that was considered by some as "good" or successful. Saban for Shula makes a good example. Shula wasn't a championship coach but he wasn't hated by his team. Many of them resisted Saban's changes.

The more negative there is before the new leader arrives, the more improvements will be appreciated. If the reports of how hated and disrespected Dooley was by the team are true then there should have been massive momentum for Jones coming in.

So yes. If Dooley is responsible due to some "loser" attitude for tanking the program... and I'd agree that was a factor... then it should have in fact been EASIER for Jones to get movement from where they were.


I don't expect the end goal to occur in one year. I do expect tangible improvement in performance if they are indeed a better staff. I believe Jones is a better HC than Dooley from a leadership standpoint. I am not sure he is as smart about who he surrounds himself with OR about strategy/gameplanning.

Dooley failed because of his lack of people skills. Jones is magnetic and smart about people. Dooley however was a very smart guy. Jones has already done some unwise things like perhaps his choice of DC, starting Peterman, and game strategy vs Vandy.

But we didn't see anything like the kind of improvement we should have expected if this is an elite staff capable of "rising to the top" in the SEC. At the very best, they treaded water this year. That's not good much less great.

Dooley failed because he was a horrible in game coach.

 

[sjt18]

The players don't have a losing mentality

They just haven't been shown how to win

Funny how quickly Auburn's players with a "losing mentality" overcame it. They went from a NC to 8-5 to 3-9... to the NC game again.

Freeze seemed to bring Ole Miss' losers around pretty quick too.

Franklin didn't seem to struggle changing the "losing mentality" at Vandy very much.


Coaches who have the ability and who are going to make it usually show tangible improvement right away.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley failed because he was a horrible in game coach.

That should be pretty scary for anyone making excuses for this past season.

Dooley kept it close with Bama and Oregon in '10. Oregon later came out and said if not for the storm delay that they probably would not have been able to make enough adjustments to change the course of the game. The strategies and gameplans in several games this past fall were not competitive.

I am coming to believe that Dooley's issue was that he could not lead. It wasn't so much that he didn't know what to do as much as he could not convince others to believe and do it. He's a very smart guy. But lots of smart guys can't lead.

It is interesting from what we know about Saban being pretty much a butt... that Dooley was described as being the most personally like him as a coach.


I think Jones is a good leader from an influence standpoint. I am not sure he has surrounded himself with capable assistants or that he has the personal strategic intelligence to match up with SEC coaches.

 

[sjt18]

No, it doesn't excuse what we saw, I agree. However, as bad as this team is its no wonder they lost a game they shouldn't have.

Back to excusing the coaches from responsibility again? The players did not lose the Vandy game.

 

[GAVol]

Dooley failed because he was a horrible in game coach.

Actually, I think it was the other way around. He was ok on game day. He just wasn't a very effective program manager or leader Sunday-Friday.

 

[tm3]

Franklin didn't seem to struggle changing the "losing mentality" at Vandy very much.


Coaches who have the ability and who are going to make it usually show tangible improvement right away.

And if ever there was a program with a deeply ingrained "losing mentality" it should be Vandy

 

[tm3]

Actually, I think it was the other way around. He was ok on game day. He just wasn't a very effective program manager or leader Sunday-Friday.

A lot of his first half performances were competitive, but remember how many times they came out and completely folded in the 2nd half?

I vote for Dooley being a poor leader Sun-Fri AND a poor in game coach. AND a butt. And some other favorite descriptors.

 

[VolSinceIwasborn]

CBJ has done an excellent job in his first year as UT coach, especially when you factor in the potential 2014 signing class. He seems very well respected throughout college football. With that being said, do you think Penn State's national search committee will reach out to CBJ? I have read that James Franklin is high on their list. I think CBJ would not interview even if contacted, but it might be even more positive national exposure if CBJ was contacted and turned down the interview. What do you guys think?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lolabove: opcorn: :loco: :bash: :spank: :machgun:

 

[LotteryPick]

Funny how quickly Auburn's players with a "losing mentality" overcame it. They went from a NC to 8-5 to 3-9... to the NC game again.

Freeze seemed to bring Ole Miss' losers around pretty quick too.

Franklin didn't seem to struggle changing the "losing mentality" at Vandy very much.


Coaches who have the ability and who are going to make it usually show tangible improvement right away.

Auburn won a National championship a couple years prior. Awful comparison.

Freeze did a pretty good job his first season, 7-6 is a decent job.

Franklin is the exception to the rule. He's a great coach and a great motivator.

So you're saying Butch isn't going to make it? Just so we're clear.