Coach Prime

[BowlBrother85]

MacIntyre went right back to 5 - 7 the next year and Oregon was awful in 2016.

MacIntyre had a lucky year and that record wasn't his norm at CO.

You are only reinforcing my main point. I don't think what Deion is doing right now (modest as it is) is sustainable. He will have to recruit high school prospects much better in order to build a foundation for consistent success. His approach is only geared for the quick fix.

 

[BowlBrother85]

@BowlBrother85 now which part of that last line are you missing? Mike wasn’t in the payoff era when he took the team over. Again, long answer to say you’re wrong.

Mike MacIntyre was hired in December of 2012, but he coached Colorado to the 2016 PAC 12 Championship Game, which was the 3rd season of the College Football Playoff's existence.

You said that Mike MacIntyre didn't take over a 1 win team at Colorado, or coach them during the College Football Playoff era. You were wrong on both counts ... but you are stubbornly trying to split hairs to avoid acknowledging the fact that you were unaware that MacIntyre had inherited the same situation that Deion Sanders did. You are obsessively argumentative and it is childish.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You are only reinforcing my main point. I don't think what Deion is doing right now (modest as it is) is sustainable. He will have to recruit high school prospects much better in order to build a foundation for consistent success. His approach is only geared for the quick fix.

It doesn't have to be. He's bringing in lots of money, new people in the area are at least looking at football who didn't before, and there's a lot of hype about the program.

Your vision that "building a dynasty" is the goal of every program, or should be, is not current. Bringing in revenue is the goal and Prime is a showman, first, and a coach, second..... until proven otherwise.

The showman brings revenue. Can he continue to bring revenue? Who knows. Who cares? An estimated $90M in money already, folks watching CO on ESPN in record numbers around the country. THAT is remarkable.

Coaching is secondary to revenue.

 

[BowlBrother85]

It doesn't have to be. He's bringing in lots of money, new people in the area are at least looking at football who didn't before, and there's a lot of hype about the program.

Your vision that "building a dynasty" is the goal of every program, or should be, is not current. Bringing in revenue is the goal and Prime is a showman, first, and a coach, second..... until proven otherwise.

The showman brings revenue. Can he continue to bring revenue? Who knows. Who cares? An estimated $90M in money already, folks watching CO on ESPN in record numbers around the country. THAT is remarkable.

Coaching is secondary to revenue.

There was a lot of hype about Colorado's program in 2016.

Mike MacIntyre was the 2016 PAC 12 Coach of the Year.

Mike MacIntyre was also the 2016 Walter Camp National Coach of the Year.

It quickly fades, if winning isn't sustained. Everything you are thinking of as being a positive is only short-run.

 

[Majors]

Mike MacIntyre was hired in December of 2012, but he coached Colorado to the 2016 PAC 12 Championship Game, which was the 3rd season of the College Football Playoff's existence.

You said that Mike MacIntyre didn't take over a 1 win team at Colorado, or coach them during the College Football Playoff era. You were wrong on both counts ... but you are stubbornly trying to split hairs to avoid acknowledging the fact that you were unaware that MacIntyre had inherited the same situation that Deion Sanders did. You are obsessively argumentative and it is childish.

We’ve established the timeline, he wasn’t hired in the playoff era..he was hired in the BCS. Thanks. Like I said long answer now a few times to say you were wrong. He was hired in the BCS era, which was the original stance before decided to add buffer years. Not childish if you side bar if you continuously misspeak for me. But please, tell us again.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

There was a lot of hype about Colorado's program in 2016.

Mike MacIntyre was the 2016 PAC 12 Coach of the Year.

Mike MacIntyre was also the 2016 Walter Camp National Coach of the Year.

It quickly fades, if winning isn't sustained. Everything you are thinking of as being a positive is only short-run.

Prime is one of the best college showmen in the country, not coaches, showmen. If there's one thing he knows, it's getting attention.

His job isn't to create a dynasty. His job is to keep Colorado in the news and exciting. Every portal pickup or flip, he does a news conference and runs his mouth. Every win or loss, he runs his mouth. Every kid like Hunter Travis gets hurt, Prime releases a "feel good" message to the kid.

He's good at it. He's annoying. He's all hype but he's very, very good at keeping himself and his program "watchable" even if it's to see him get his butt whooped like USCw will do and Oregon did.

He reconstituted Colorado from crap into $90M and we're talking about it AND we're not going to stop talking about it if Prime can help it. That's what he does. Winning is secondary, coaching is secondary. Revenue and exposure is everything.

 

[BowlBrother85]

We’ve established the timeline, he wasn’t hired in the playoff era..he was hired in the BCS.

What difference does that make? I mean ... Seriously?

He coached Colorado for 5 seasons during the College Football Playoff's existence. You are stubbornly splitting hairs over a timeline to try and win a message board argument. It is childish. Grow up.

Like I said long answer now a few times to say you were wrong.

You said that he didn't inherit a one win team, unlike Deion Sanders ... and you were wrong then as well. He inherited the same mess that Sanders did.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Prime is one of the best college showmen in the country, not coaches, showmen. If there's one thing he knows, it's getting attention.

Then he should be able to recruit high school prospects well. So why isn't he?

His job isn't to create a dynasty. His job is to keep Colorado in the news and exciting.

I never said his job was to build a dynasty. His job is to win football games. I don't think he is going to win very many. I don't even think he will be there 3 years from now.

Revenue and exposure is everything.

Winning is everything ... and that takes care of revenue and exposure.

 

[Majors]

What difference does that make? I mean ... Seriously?

He coached Colorado for 5 seasons during the College Football Playoff's existence. You are stubbornly splitting hairs over a timeline to try and win a message board argument. It is childish. Grow up.


You said that he didn't inherit a one win team, unlike Deion Sanders ... and you were wrong then as well. He inherited the same mess that Sanders did.

You’re right, I said he didn’t inherit a 1 win team in the playoff era. He inherited a 1 win team in the BCS era. Again, another long answer to say you were wrong…speaking of childish. Can we get another reply, maybe with a LOL or OMG

 

[BowlBrother85]

You’re right, I said he didn’t inherit a 1 win team in the playoff era. He inherited a 1 win team in the BCS era. Again, another long answer to say you were wrong…speaking of childish. Can we get another reply, maybe with a LOL or OMG

Mike MacIntyre coached Colorado for 5 seasons during the College Football Playoff's existence .... You are stubbornly splitting hairs as though the date he was hired makes any difference at all to the challenges of taking over a 1-11 program - it doesn't. You were wrong ... but you can't admit it, because you are being petty, egotistical and childish.

OMG ... Indeed.

 

[Majors]

Mike MacIntyre coached Colorado for 5 seasons during the College Football Playoff's existence .... You are stubbornly splitting hairs as though the date he was hired makes any difference at all to the challenges of taking over a 1-11 program - it doesn't. You were wrong ... but you can't admit it, because you are being petty, egotistical and childish.

OMG ... Indeed.

That’s wonderful. Another long as we go say you were wrong. That’ll be my last one.

 

[BowlBrother85]

That’s wonderful. Another long as we go say you were wrong. That’ll be my last one.

Good ... and yes, you were wrong.

 

[Harpethriverkid63]

You are only reinforcing my main point. I don't think what Deion is doing right now (modest as it is) is sustainable. He will have to recruit high school prospects much better in order to build a foundation for consistent success. His approach is only geared for the quick fix.

Can the portal sustain a program? Possibly. Bill Snyder wasn’t necessarily recruiting 4 or 5 stars. Heck, even Osborn made a living with walk-ons instead of the portal. I would imagine had they had the portal, it would have been the same or better than the walk-on program Nebraska was famous for. Let’s see how the season and next plays out.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Then he should be able to recruit high school prospects well. So why isn't he?


I never said his job was to build a dynasty. His job is to win football games. I don't think he is going to win very many. I don't even think he will be there 3 years from now.


Winning is everything ... and that takes care of revenue and exposure.

He doesn't care about recruiting high school kids and I suspect guys from the portal are easier to coach. Will it work? Well enough for the short term.

Of course he'll leave, perhaps even leave coaching, after his boys are gone and he gets bored or gets another "miracle waiting for Prime magic" offer. He's not a long-term coach but he doesn't have to be. He's already given CO buckets of money, Saturdays of fun, lots of excitement, and lots of national attention.

Colorado is getting what they wanted from Prime. I'm sure they didn't think he'd be a "normal" football coach. He has never presented himself as that ..... ever. He's there to create buzz, not win a Natty.

You're wrong about winning. The exposure and revenue Prime has brought easily prove that. He was getting tons of exposure before they got to camp, much less played. He was generating a ton of interest and merch sales before they ever had a practice.

What you believe is that long-term success and exposure and revenue are generated by winning. Notre Dame underachieves 9 out of 10 years and continues to have a great revenue and exposure because they have a HUGE brand.

Prime is creating a brand as a college coach, but like Notre Dame, he's probably not going to be as successful on the field as he is at the cash register. Priorities.

That's why it's ridiculous to think Prime could succeed in the SEC or B1G because the brands demand winning and the revenue is built in. Prime lacks the chops to win against coaches for whom winning is essential to keeping their jobs. Prime can go to a school like Colorado or Jackson State and create a stir and generate a ton of revenue, which is enough for some schools....... like Colorado and Jackson State.

He is what he is. A hype and revenue machine. He's good at it. Give him his due for that and let it go. He's not what you're looking for because you're an SEC fan. He's what CO and Jackson State were looking for and it worked for them.

 

[Majors]

He doesn't care about recruiting high school kids and I suspect guys from the portal are easier to coach. Will it work? Well enough for the short term.

Of course he'll leave, perhaps even leave coaching, after his boys are gone and he gets bored or gets another "miracle waiting for Prime magic" offer. He's not a long-term coach but he doesn't have to be. He's already given CO buckets of money, Saturdays of fun, lots of excitement, and lots of national attention.

Colorado is getting what they wanted from Prime. I'm sure they didn't think he'd be a "normal" football coach. He has never presented himself as that ..... ever. He's there to create buzz, not win a Natty.

You're wrong about winning. The exposure and revenue Prime has brought easily prove that. He was getting tons of exposure before they got to camp, much less played. He was generating a ton of interest and merch sales before they ever had a practice.

What you believe is that long-term success and exposure and revenue are generated by winning. Notre Dame underachieves 9 out of 10 years and continues to have a great revenue and exposure because they have a HUGE brand.

Prime is creating a brand as a college coach, but like Notre Dame, he's probably not going to be as successful on the field as he is at the cash register. Priorities.

That's why it's ridiculous to think Prime could succeed in the SEC or B1G because the brands demand winning and the revenue is built in. Prime lacks the chops to win against coaches for whom winning is essential to keeping their jobs. Prime can go to a school like Colorado or Jackson State and create a stir and generate a ton of revenue, which is enough for some schools....... like Colorado and Jackson State.

He is what he is. A hype and revenue machine. He's good at it. Give him his due for that and let it go. He's not what you're looking for because you're an SEC fan. He's what CO and Jackson State were looking for and it worked for them.

10M viewers watching ABC at 3:30pm EST backs up what you just said.

 

[Majors]

Can the portal sustain a program? Possibly. Bill Snyder wasn’t necessarily recruiting 4 or 5 stars. Heck, even Osborn made a living with walk-ons instead of the portal. I would imagine had they had the portal, it would have been the same or better than the walk-on program Nebraska was famous for. Let’s see how the season and next plays out.

Bill Snyder lived off the JUCO because he couldn’t recruit to Manhattan, KS the players he needed to win in the 90’s.

 

[05_never_again]

Can the portal sustain a program? Possibly. Bill Snyder wasn’t necessarily recruiting 4 or 5 stars. Heck, even Osborn made a living with walk-ons instead of the portal. I would imagine had they had the portal, it would have been the same or better than the walk-on program Nebraska was famous for. Let’s see how the season and next plays out.

Completely turning over the roster every year isn't sustainable. Getting 10-15 or so from the Portal every year? I think it is sustainable if you're good at player evaluation. As you mentioned Bill Snyder had a bunch of JUCO transfers every year, usually at the LOS positions, and he had success doing that for a very long time.

Then he should be able to recruit high school prospects well. So why isn't he?


I never said his job was to build a dynasty. His job is to win football games. I don't think he is going to win very many. I don't even think he will be there 3 years from now.


Winning is everything ... and that takes care of revenue and exposure.

I don't know what Deion's longer-term plans are, and honestly he might not either. I think it is harder for fans of historically successful, brand name programs to comprehend what Deion is doing because we think the goal of a football program is different than what Deion thinks it is. He isn't what Tennessee, or Alabama, or Ohio State, or Oklahoma are looking for. Colorado doesn't have anything to lose by Deion being a flash in the pan success. They'll take any success/exposure to the bank 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. A brand name program does have something to lose by doing that. Let's be real - what are the odds of Colorado ever having any kind of sustained success on the football field anyway? If anything, Colorado's hiring of Deion shows they have a pretty realistic and self-aware perception of their football program. Not every school exists on the same plane, has the same resources and potential, and has the same goals.

Look at the TV ratings, apparel sales, media coverage, etc. that Deion has already generated for them. He probably has already economically justified the first few years of his contract with the school.

 

[Majors]

Completely turning over the roster every year isn't sustainable. Getting 10-15 or so from the Portal every year? I think it is sustainable if you're good at player evaluation. As you mentioned Bill Snyder had a bunch of JUCO transfers every year, usually at the LOS positions, and he had success doing that for a very long time.


I don't know what Deion's longer-term plans are, and honestly he might not either. I think it is harder for fans of historically successful, brand name programs to comprehend what Deion is doing because we think the goal of a football program is different than what Deion thinks it is. He isn't what Tennessee, or Alabama, or Ohio State, or Oklahoma are looking for. Colorado doesn't have anything to lose by Deion being a flash in the pan success. They'll take any success/exposure to the bank 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. A brand name program does have something to lose by doing that. Let's be real - what are the odds of Colorado ever having any kind of sustained success on the football field anyway? If anything, Colorado's hiring of Deion shows they have a pretty realistic and self-aware perception of their football program. Not every school exists on the same plane, has the same resources and potential, and has the same goals.

Look at the TV ratings, apparel sales, media coverage, etc. that Deion has already generated for them. He probably has already economically justified the first few years of his contract with the school.

Numbers don’t lie

Deion Sanders, Colorado Have Drawn Estimated $90.55M in Media Coverage, School Says​

 

[05_never_again]

Numbers don’t lie

Deion Sanders, Colorado Have Drawn Estimated $90.55M in Media Coverage, School Says​

Yep. It's absolutely insane, and ultimately why this "...but it isn't sustainable!!!" talk misses the point. Especially when you're talking about a program like Colorado.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

10M viewers watching ABC at 3:30pm EST backs up what you just said.

Many folks watching to see him get stomped, which he did and then see what he said. He'll draw a smaller crowd to watch USCw beat them by as many as Lincoln Riley wants, but folks will still want to see what he says afterward.

Sure, unless he gets another upset or two, he'll have to either get more outrageous in press conferences or flip a 5* or recruit a star or something to feed the buzz, but that's his problem not mine. If he can't keep the buzz going, he's still brought CO more attention than any other coach could have done and that's what they really wanted.

If they wanted a "normal" college coach, they'd have hired one. If they'd wanted a guy to build a Natty program the old fashioned way, they'd have hired a different person.

The CO and Col State game was very, very entertaining but the fact that it was tells me there's no need at all to worry about from CO or Col State turning into a potential Natty program in the near future. Neither was extremely well coached, neither had a decent defense, and neither had the "horses" that lead me today believe they're heading to that level.

But I watched. I was up until 2am and I was entertained. I wouldn't have started watching that game unless it was CO. The "Prime effect" worked on me and I don't even like the guy, but his work with CO piqued my curiosity enough to watch.

That's not a Natty program but it's enough for CO.

 

[Majors]

Many folks watching to see him get stomped, which he did and then see what he said. He'll draw a smaller crowd to watch USCw beat them by as many as Lincoln Riley wants, but folks will still want to see what he says afterward.

Sure, unless he gets another upset or two, he'll have to either get more outrageous in press conferences or flip a 5* or recruit a star or something to feed the buzz, but that's his problem not mine. If he can't keep the buzz going, he's still brought CO more attention than any other coach could have done and that's what they really wanted.

If they wanted a "normal" college coach, they'd have hired one. If they'd wanted a guy to build a Natty program the old fashioned way, they'd have hired a different person.

The CO and Col State game was very, very entertaining but the fact that it was tells me there's no need at all to worry about from CO or Col State turning into a potential Natty program in the near future. Neither was extremely well coached, neither had a decent defense, and neither had the "horses" that lead me today believe they're heading to that level.

But I watched. I was up until 2am and I was entertained. I wouldn't have started watching that game unless it was CO. The "Prime effect" worked on me and I don't even like the guy, but his work with CO piqued my curiosity enough to watch.

That's not a Natty program but it's enough for CO.

The buzz should die down after this week if USC can do what they are supposed to do. I’d say the viewership will be a solid number this week and slowly fade away as the losses pile up and maybe trickle up when they get close to potential bowl eligibility.

 

[05_never_again]

The buzz should die down after this week if USC can do what they are supposed to do. I’d say the viewership will be a solid number this week and slowly fade away as the losses pile up and maybe trickle up when they get close to potential bowl eligibility.

I don't think the buzz even begins to approach a normal level until if/when they start losing games in which they're favored. Losing by several TDs to good teams does dampen enthusiasm, but it isn't like they're expected to beat Oregon or USC anyway.

However, a loss to Stanford or Arizona St could really begin to create a "Well, that was fun while it lasted" vibe.

 

[Majors]

I don't think the buzz even begins to approach a normal level until if/when they start losing games in which they're favored. Losing by several TDs to good teams does dampen enthusiasm, but it isn't like they're expected to beat Oregon or USC anyway.

However, a loss to Stanford or Arizona St could really begin to create a "Well, that was fun while it lasted" vibe.

Agree those 50/50 games will keep it alive or let it fade.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The buzz should die down after this week if USC can do what they are supposed to do. I’d say the viewership will be a solid number this week and slowly fade away as the losses pile up and maybe trickle up when they get close to potential bowl eligibility.

I think it hangs on but more based on what Deion does and says. Showmen do things differently than coaches.

Coaches worry about losing their job if they say something outlandish but showmen worry about losing their audience if they don't say something outlandish.

Coaches care about their job and the program's success on the field. Showmen care about the show created and how many people bought tickets/watched and merch.

I dislike Prime because his arrogance and delivery is too confrontational for the job of a head coach, IMO. Once I've turned that view just a little to see him as a showman, not a coach, he becomes more of a curiosity....... Is this going to work? How long? Will the conference put up with this guy talking smack like this? Will the school? Will this fit in in laid back Boulder?

That curiosity fuels eyeballs, I think. What's he going to do next???

 

[YankeeVol]

LOL ... and 2012 being 2 years away from when the playoffs started is some kind of big difference?

The program that Mike MacIntyre inherited in December of 2012 was just as bad as what Deion Sanders has inherited ... and he had them ranked in the top 10 and playing in the PAC 12 Championship Game in his 4th season, with road wins over both Oregon and Utah.

Deion is doing NOTHING special.

So you’re comparing year 4 to year 1…