Coach Prime

[05_never_again]

I think it hangs on but more based on what Deion does and says. Showmen do things differently than coaches.

Coaches worry about losing their job if they say something outlandish but showmen worry about losing their audience if they don't say something outlandish.

Coaches care about their job and the program's success on the field. Showmen care about the show created and how many people bought tickets/watched and merch.

I dislike Prime because his arrogance and delivery is too confrontational for the job of a head coach, IMO. Once I've turned that view just a little to see him as a showman, not a coach, he becomes more of a curiosity....... Is this going to work? How long? Will the conference put up with this guy talking smack like this? Will the school? Will this fit in in laid back Boulder?

That curiosity fuels eyeballs, I think. What's he going to do next???

You're correct that he is a showman, but any showman needs to deliver periodically. Otherwise he becomes uninteresting or even foolish, depending on how over-the-top the behavior is (and Deion is pretty over-the-top).

The reason for the meteoric rise in the interest of Colorado football isn't just because Deion ran his mouth all offseason - it's because he ran his mouth all offseason and for the early part of the season actually delivered. He definitely attracted attention this offseason, but for the most part nobody really took him seriously. Beating TCU as a 3 TD underdog, however overrated they might be, and then following that up with a dominant victory in a roughly even game actually got people to start taking his team's performance on the field seriously (e.g., noticing that his son and Travis Hunter aren't just names; they can produce on the field). When you combine his showmanship with actually winning games, you end up with the insane buzz that was created.

Nobody expects him to beat or even compete with good teams, hence he can get his teeth kicked in by Oregon and USC and be OK. However he really starts to become far less interesting, and the whole thing starts to become overplayed, if he starts losing games that are seen to be even or where they're favored. If he does all that stuff but then can't beat Stanford, people move on to something more interesting.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You're correct that he is a showman, but any showman needs to deliver periodically. Otherwise he becomes uninteresting or even foolish, depending on how over-the-top the behavior is (and Deion is pretty over-the-top).

The reason for the meteoric rise in the interest of Colorado football isn't just because Deion ran his mouth all offseason - it's because he ran his mouth all offseason and for the early part of the season actually delivered. He definitely attracted attention this offseason, but for the most part nobody really took him seriously. Beating TCU as a 3 TD underdog, however overrated they might be, and then following that up with a dominant victory in a roughly even game actually got people to start taking his team's performance on the field seriously (e.g., noticing that his son and Travis Hunter aren't just names; they can produce on the field). When you combine his showmanship with actually winning games, you end up with the insane buzz that was created.

Nobody expects him to beat or even compete with good teams, hence he can get his teeth kicked in by Oregon and USC and be OK. However he really starts to become far less interesting, and the whole thing starts to become overplayed, if he starts losing games that are seen to be even or where they're favored. If he does all that stuff but then can't beat Stanford, people move on to something more interesting.

He definitely has to win the favored games and ANY improvements by the team, recruit or even suspected commitment, success by his sons, perceived or manufactured "slights" by other coaches, etc can be used by him for attention.

He's in a position where he doesn't have to play by "coach rules" to bring attention to the program and that's pretty unique. I think of the Pirate, Coach Leach, who could get away with some head scratcher comments and behavior and not a lot of awful losses but certainly not a great deal of success at Mississippi State. He was in a unique place that suited Miss State in the SEC...... able to coach well enough and be kooky at the same time.

Prime might find a niche like that in the Big 12. Until I've seen some proof he CAN coach beyond the Jackson State level, I'm still not convinced. He can motivate. He can build a decent team from a group of strangers. Can he actually keep the team motivated when they get curb stomped? Can he coach them up? Can he still keep the locker room when inevitably some kid does something dumb and needs correction?

He's done well for what he's done and what he was supposed to do at CO. If it drops off the table for him, it would be hard to be pissed if I was an admin at CO. You got what you knew you were going to get: a circus...... and that comes with risk of a big fall.

 

[BowlBrother85]

So you’re comparing year 4 to year 1…

I'm making the point that winning on a short term basis is not foreign to Colorado. They have had this kind of hype and excitement not that long ago ... and it didn't last. This won't either.

 

[Vol since 77]

He's a great promoter and motivater and that's where it stops at this point. He may very well turn into a great coach one day, but he isn't deserving of the hype and media attention just yet. Of course, he and espn need each other desperately right now due to him being at a place that needs the attention and espn's flailing network needs viewers. They are definitely in need of each other currently. Time will tell, but I hope he does well and sticks around to build Colorado up, but I have my doubts that he will.

It's a pathetic showing of his son and the other players talking ish before the Oregon game though. He needs to drill into these kids to drop the act that he puts on, it definitely turns teams in the NFL off and causes them to question the character of these kids. Hell, Will Levis' draft stock dropped tremendously because teams were turned off by his over confidence or arrogance if you want to call it that. Deion isn't helping these kids when they act the way they did prior to the Oregon game (or at least keep it off social media). One thing's for sure, he's going to end up doing big things or he's going to flame out spectacularly. I'll enjoy watching it either way it goes.

 

[YankeeVol]

I'm making the point that winning on a short term basis is not foreign to Colorado. They have had this kind of hype and excitement not that long ago ... and it didn't last. This won't either.

They have a title the same decade Tennessee does

 

[Fightmaker]

how is they losing to Oregon and USC coming back down to earth? No one with any sense would have expected them to win those 2 games even with Travis Hunter. The fact they have 3 wins and were ranked 3 weeks is a win in and of itself from a team that won 1 game last season. The rest of their schedule is very rough probably one of the roughest in the nation but they still likely end up bowl-eligible and that my friend is an accomplishment no one outside of Colorado locker room would have expected preseason.

He will still win at least 8 games, and that alone is a testament to his celebrity status…but that’s what this is, a flavor of the week media story. Once he is consistently another Lane Kiffin, let’s see what 8-4 every year buys him.

 

[BowlBrother85]

They have a title the same decade Tennessee does

1990. I remember the McCartney years very well. They were also very good in 2001, with RB Chris Brown, under Gary Barnett. Success is not unheard of at Colorado. What Deion has done this year is nothing special ... and what minimal success he has even had, will be fleeting, unless he starts to recruit high school prospects much better. Building a roster with nothing but transfers is not sustainable.

 

[BowlBrother85]

He will still win at least 8 games, and that alone is a testament to his celebrity status…but that’s what this is, a flavor of the week media story. Once he is consistently another Lane Kiffin, let’s see what 8-4 every year buys him.

Their most likely record at the end of the regular season will be 7-5. 8-4 is a possibility, if they beat UCLA in Pasadena.

I think their remaining losses will be :

USC
at UCLA
at Washington State
at Utah

 

[Harpethriverkid63]

Their most likely record at the end of the regular season will be 7-5. 8-4 is a possibility, if they beat UCLA in Pasadena.

I think their remaining losses will be :

USC
at UCLA
at Washington State
at Utah

If…if Colorado finishes 7-5, that’s the best of any first year coach that has ever coached there save one.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Their most likely record at the end of the regular season will be 7-5. 8-4 is a possibility, if they beat UCLA in Pasadena.

I think their remaining losses will be :

USC
at UCLA
at Washington State
at Utah

I’d be willing to be a lot of money that they’ll lose to Oregon State too. I see only one game that’s probably a W and that’s Stanford. The rest are losses or tossups.

 

[LouderVol]

And the rules and systems in place now are not the same as then. Portal and NIL allowed for more teams to get better faster.

ok, just like the rules were different for them than they were for previous coaches. you have to coach to the rules at your time. that applies to everyone. maybe those coaches who failed at Colorado that you mentioned would have similar success as Deion in today's system.

It wasn't some coaching miracle Deion pulled off to bring in all those players. it was simply following the rules. the same rules that provided Deion with his success today wasn't allowed previously. How would Deion's record look if he wasn't able to pull those players? What if he had 75% of the old Colorado team like his predecessors would have had to use? Deion is the first to have that ability, but its not because of something Deion does or did, he is just playing by the rules.

 

[LouderVol]

Numbers don’t lie

Deion Sanders, Colorado Have Drawn Estimated $90.55M in Media Coverage, School Says​

how is that number calculated?

Maybe there is a clause in the PAC 12s contract that pays out a performance bonus based on viewership. But that would be the first I have ever heard of anything like that. I would be very much surprised if Colorado itself was seeing any where close to that in an uptick in dollars in their door. I could see 10-20 million from sales, donations, and tickets, but 90 million of media money isn't walking in the door at this moment, or anytime in the near future.

 

[Majors]

how is that number calculated?

Maybe there is a clause in the PAC 12s contract that pays out a performance bonus based on viewership. But that would be the first I have ever heard of anything like that. I would be very much surprised if Colorado itself was seeing any where close to that in an uptick in dollars in their door. I could see 10-20 million from sales, donations, and tickets, but 90 million of media money isn't walking in the door at this moment, or anytime in the near future.

Here’s your breakdown

Deion Sanders Is Already Paying Off For Colorado After Just Three Games With Ticket, Merch, Ad Sales Way Up

 

[LouderVol]

If…if Colorado finishes 7-5, that’s the best of any first year coach that has ever coached there save one.

If he gets them to a bowl in year one he is Coach of the Year. At least in the Pac 12, and maybe even nationally. only hold up would just be what other coaches are doing, getting Colorado to even be decent in one year is a heck of a coaching job, even if you don't think it brings long term success with it.

 

[LouderVol]

Here’s your breakdown

Deion Sanders Is Already Paying Off For Colorado After Just Three Games With Ticket, Merch, Ad Sales Way Up

Is Colorado the sole benefactor of that ad revenue? Are they even a direct beneficiary of the increase ads? My understanding is that the schools give their media rights to the conference, the conference then partners with a broadcaster (ESPN/FOX/CBS/whoever), and then ESPN goes to the advertising to get the money. maybe there is another step in there with the broadcaster working with the media provider (cable, youtubeTV, etc), and then the provider gets the ad revenue. (ESPN) has a set contract, that expires this year, with the conference that pays out a fixed dollar amount. The PAC 12 I believe pays everyone equally. regardless of how they did. the only differences would be conference championship, bowls, and playoff payouts include some direct revenue to the individual schools.

the argument they are making direct money from increased ad revenue doesn't understand the contract. or I could be completely off on my understanding of contracts. 90 million would be 1/4 of the TOTAL Pac 12 contract with all of its schools. there is no way Colorado is actually getting close to that money in their wallets in only 1/3 of a season.

Last year when we were a hot team with multiple games over 10 million in viewers ESPN wasn't cutting us any extra checks. I don't think any extra ad revenue was coming our way.

if teams were directly profiting from their increased viewership you wouldn't have FSU complaining they aren't getting paid fairly.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Is Colorado the sole benefactor of that ad revenue? Are they even a direct beneficiary of the increase ads? My understanding is that the schools give their media rights to the conference, the conference then partners with a broadcaster (ESPN/FOX/CBS/whoever), and then ESPN goes to the advertising to get the money. maybe there is another step in there with the broadcaster working with the media provider (cable, youtubeTV, etc), and then the provider gets the ad revenue. (ESPN) has a set contract, that expires this year, with the conference that pays out a fixed dollar amount. The PAC 12 I believe pays everyone equally. regardless of how they did. the only differences would be conference championship, bowls, and playoff payouts include some direct revenue to the individual schools.

the argument they are making direct money from increased ad revenue doesn't understand the contract. or I could be completely off on my understanding of contracts. 90 million would be 1/4 of the TOTAL Pac 12 contract with all of its schools. there is no way Colorado is actually getting close to that money in their wallets in only 1/3 of a season.

Last year when we were a hot team with multiple games over 10 million in viewers ESPN wasn't cutting us any extra checks. I don't think any extra ad revenue was coming our way.

if teams were directly profiting from their increased viewership you wouldn't have FSU complaining they aren't getting paid fairly.

I thought the $90+ million figure was revenue for the area, not just the university. It's got to be good for those local joints in that walking mall, closed street in Boulder's downtown and the hotels around there and even in Denver.

I'm sure the merch sales are good for the school and the guys playing, if there's NIL. I'm not sure if the kids are picking up new ads and NIL checks, but if they are that's good for showing recruits.

Buzz is good. It was good for Knoxville last year. It was good for recruiting. That's Deion's real job........ bring the bling, get people to notice CO.

We're on a Vols board thousands of miles from CO. They're not in our conference nor anywhere near our quality of team....... and Deion is a daily discussion. Something's working for the team.

 

[Majors]

I thought the $90+ million figure was revenue for the area, not just the university. It's got to be good for those local joints in that walking mall, closed street in Boulder's downtown and the hotels around there and even in Denver.

I'm sure the merch sales are good for the school and the guys playing, if there's NIL. I'm not sure if the kids are picking up new ads and NIL checks, but if they are that's good for showing recruits.

Buzz is good. It was good for Knoxville last year. It was good for recruiting. That's Deion's real job........ bring the bling, get people to notice CO.

We're on a Vols board thousands of miles from CO. They're not in our conference nor anywhere near our quality of team....... and Deion is a daily discussion. Something's working for the team.

Estimated 17M for the town of Boulder on game days. Season tickets sold out for the first time in 27 years, merch up over 2000%, alum donations already exceeded previous year by a few million with time left.

 

[LouderVol]

I thought the $90+ million figure was revenue for the area, not just the university. It's got to be good for those local joints in that walking mall, closed street in Boulder's downtown and the hotels around there and even in Denver.

I'm sure the merch sales are good for the school and the guys playing, if there's NIL. I'm not sure if the kids are picking up new ads and NIL checks, but if they are that's good for showing recruits.

Buzz is good. It was good for Knoxville last year. It was good for recruiting. That's Deion's real job........ bring the bling, get people to notice CO.

We're on a Vols board thousands of miles from CO. They're not in our conference nor anywhere near our quality of team....... and Deion is a daily discussion. Something's working for the team.

thats an incredibly broad brush to paint with then. not arguing the numbers or his overall value, just the way its being presented. I have never heard of a university, the ones who did the report, claiming income that the city makes, ad revenue to another entity, or even bringing NIL numbers into some composite worth to them.

seems like they are stating the obvious. like they are justifying to themselves that investing in football is worth it.

idk something strikes me as odd about this.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

thats an incredibly broad brush to paint with then. not arguing the numbers or his overall value, just the way its being presented. I have never heard of a university, the ones who did the report, claiming income that the city makes, ad revenue to another entity, or even bringing NIL numbers into some composite worth to them.

seems like they are stating the obvious. like they are justifying to themselves that investing in football is worth it.

idk something strikes me as odd about this.

I'm not saying that's how it is at all. Prime doesn't interest me except as a social phenomena. I'm reading articles but not researching specifics.

I'm thinking things like: so this is one way college football is going to morph now? Coaches are going to be able to clean house of not just staff but also players? Schools can openly go after revenue for the area rather than championships as justification for picking a coach?

As the smaller conferences jostle for a future, it's interesting to see what strategies they'll use to keep the program somewhat relevant.

CO didn't go after Prime, it seems, with hopes of doing more than creating buzz and revenue. Winning at an elite level is very secondary to getting CO "on the map" socially as a fun, different football school. Prime may BS about how good they'll be but that's just his usual BS and the CO admins seem fine with it.

It's different, for sure, for Big 12 admins to make a hire that's more glitz and less substance. I'm wondering if that will be a trend.

 

[GoDucks349]

Colorado's best chance to make a bowl game this year is that they need to sweep the AZ schools and Stanford. Then they have to upset, OSU, USC, UCLA, Utah or WSU. And the best chances in that group are going to have to be home games and those are USC and OSU.

 

[pimo1]

Colorado's best chance to make a bowl game this year is that they need to sweep the AZ schools and Stanford. Then they have to upset, OSU, USC, UCLA, Utah or WSU. And the best chances in that group are going to have to be home games and those are USC and OSU.

huh? your math is bad bro.... They already have 3 wins. Bowl eligibility is 6 (guaranteed for P5) or 5 in weird years when they dont have enough 6 win teams. Colorado already has 3 wins.. They just need to find 3 more.

They have 3 lil bro schools (the Blah blah states) left thats good for 2 wins
Then they just have to fish another win out of UCLA, Stanford, Utah, and Arizona.

One thing PAC 12 teams are known for is giving up at least one choke game very season.
By the time they get to Stanford/UCLA part of the schedule, Hunter should be back and they will have grown as an offense and defense in his absence.
Do I think on any planet they were gonna beat Oregon or USC this year? Hell no.. but if hunter was healthy they wouldn't have gotten boat raced that badly. He is their team. Its rare that the best player on both sides of the ball is the same person outside of service academies and D-II programs. Colorado has legit draftable NFL talent on their roster. 3-4 on offense and 2-3 on defense. Hunter being hurt for these weeks might end up making them a better team down the road as in this season.

No matter how you look at it, what Sanders has done i nothing short of amazing. Now, its gonna be hard to impossible for another coach to replicate it because there are so many factors that came into play. It was the perfect storm of NIL, the Transfer portal. Him having D1 talent to bring with him. A school with the right type of colors for some swag. Trust me Colorado's school colors played a role in recruiting with Deion there. It's marketable. There is a reason the Raiders have rarely been decent in the last 30 or so years but are still year in year out top 5 most popular/recognizable Jerseys. Colorado gear has been part of streetwear for years because of the colors now they have Deion too....There are a lot of factors involved here but honestly Prime has the ability to pull it off. Is he gonna be the greatest coach ever? Nope but he is a good coach, who surrounds himself with good coaches, has a knack for promotion and showmanship and can relate to players. He also tends to win wherever he has gone. Even when his teams were not that great they looked good doing it (Falcons). I think he can do something positive and leave a good legacy if he makes it through the first 3 years.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

huh? your math is bad bro.... They already have 3 wins. Bowl eligibility is 6 (guaranteed for P5) or 5 in weird years when they dont have enough 6 win teams. Colorado already has 3 wins.. They just need to find 3 more.

They have 3 lil bro schools (the Blah blah states) left thats good for 2 wins
Then they just have to fish another win out of UCLA, Stanford, Utah, and Arizona.

One thing PAC 12 teams are known for is giving up at least one choke game very season.
By the time they get to Stanford/UCLA part of the schedule, Hunter should be back and they will have grown as an offense and defense in his absence.
Do I think on any planet they were gonna beat Oregon or USC this year? Hell no.. but if hunter was healthy they wouldn't have gotten boat raced that badly. He is their team. Its rare that the best player on both sides of the ball is the same person outside of service academies and D-II programs. Colorado has legit draftable NFL talent on their roster. 3-4 on offense and 2-3 on defense. Hunter being hurt for these weeks might end up making them a better team down the road as in this season.

No matter how you look at it, what Sanders has done i nothing short of amazing. Now, it’s gonna be hard to impossible for another coach to replicate it because there are so many factors that came into play. It was the perfect storm of NIL, the Transfer portal. Him having D1 talent to bring with him. A school with the right type of colors for some swag. Trust me Colorado's school colors played a role in recruiting with Deion there. It's marketable. There is a reason the Raiders have rarely been decent in the last 30 or so years but are still year in year out top 5 most popular/recognizable Jerseys. Colorado gear has been part of streetwear for years because of the colors now they have Deion too....There are a lot of factors involved here but honestly Prime has the ability to pull it off. Is he gonna be the greatest coach ever? Nope but he is a good coach, who surrounds himself with good coaches, has a knack for promotion and showmanship and can relate to players. He also tends to win wherever he has gone. Even when his teams were not that great they looked good doing it (Falcons). I think he can do something positive and leave a good legacy if he makes it through the first 3 years.

I’m not sure I see 3 wins with this schedule ahead. I see probable wins against Stanford and Arizona State. Arizona is a toss up. The rest of the way is tough sledding .

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

What’s a Coach Prime?

Slang term for a narcissistic racist

 

[pimo1]

I’m not sure I see 3 wins with this schedule ahead. I see probable wins against Stanford and Arizona State. Arizona is a toss up. The rest of the way is tough sledding .
View attachment 582791

USC and Oregon are Legit the rest of the pac 12 is kinda ya know PAC 12 aka paper tigers. Any given week any pac 12 team could very well beat any other one. It's always been that way. I can not see a way where Colorado does not find 3 more wins in the PAC-12. Stanford, UCLA, Arizona and Arizona state are worse teams than Colorado even without Travis Hunter. Oregon State and Washington State haven't played anyone except each other and Oregon state lost that game.. no longer ranked. Both of them will have at least 2-3 Ls and be unranked by the time they meet Colorado.

 

[jvols1999]

Slang term for a narcissistic racist

Dude, relax