Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

#476
#476
sanddune50 said:
Lol. You guys and gals are great. So taking limited pieces of information and creating an entire story where mean ole Hart is picking on the women sports is reality? Maybe your reality which is nothing more than an ill informed opinion, but not reality. The AD was broke when he got here, which means he has to lower cost to build back up our reserve. That means having to make changes such as one logo have to be done. I think you guys should focus on learning more about how a business runs as opposed to watching TV detective shows. Just my opinion not reality.
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Telling someone they need to learn more about running a business without knowing them is pretty short sided and not very smart on your part. The AD was broke when Hart arrived. It's still damn near broke now even with the moves he has made by doing away with the yearly academic donation, consolidating the two AD's and praise be doing away with that money sucking logo. If he is bailing us out financially, he hasn't done much to prove it. When football comes back, and I believe it will, the finances will improve but doing away with a logo is about the last thing that is costing the AD money. If they want to do away with it they need to at least tell us the truth why because finances ain't it.
 
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#477
#477
Orange Maniac said:
Like I said. If you don't know, you just don't understand or care. Why bring up football? Everyone knows that is the engine that drives all sports at UT and without Tennessee there wouldn't be any Vols, Lady Vols or anything else so your point is really silly in that respect. I just want the people that think Nike was the reason for the change explain to me why they were the reason when we began hearing of the name change years before Nike. It wasn't officially announced, but there was plenty of noise in the back channels way before Nike. This whole issue is like arguing with a snake handling preacher. Blinded by faith while ignoring the reality.
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I'd like to see some sort of proof about that. I've gone to the games and followed the LV's for over 40 years and never heard anything about a name change before last year.
 
#478
#478
sanddune50 said:
So what exactly did Dave Hart lie about? Sounds like a lot of what you see is a figment of your own imagination.
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We've discussed this at length on this thread. When he announced the extinction of the Lady VOL brand except for basketball his tactic was to lie about how it went down. He said he conducted a survey of all the teams and that the teams overwhelmingly wanted the one brand. This survey never happened. He was probably referring to the supposed marketing audit that Nike did. It was never a women's athletic team survey. He knew it would be important to appear that he got input from the coaches and the athletes because only a bonehead would do this without their input. The reason he didn't want their input is he didn't care what their desires were. He should have just come out and said that instead of lie about it. Also, he eventually intends to extinguish the name entirely but he is just doing it incrementally to avoid the uproar so he is lying about that too.
 
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#479
#479
Also, a recent freedom of information request was done by citizens of the state about communications between the athletic department and Nike including e-mail communications. His way of handling that was to have his lawyers send a copy of the Nike marketing audit. So, again he lied by omission. This is what Dave Hart thinks of the UT fan base.
 
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#480
#480
Orange Maniac said:
Telling someone they need to learn more about running a business without knowing them is pretty short sided and not very smart on your part. The AD was broke when Hart arrived. It's still damn near broke now even with the moves he has made by doing away with the yearly academic donation, consolidating the two AD's and praise be doing away with that money sucking logo. If he is bailing us out financially, he hasn't done much to prove it. When football comes back, and I believe it will, the finances will improve but doing away with a logo is about the last thing that is costing the AD money. If they want to do away with it they need to at least tell us the truth why because finances ain't it.
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Finances (profitability) can't be the reason, but personal money could be. As in, pretend you're the AD and Nike approaches you with a great deal for the school by switching from Adidas to Nike. And, if you play along and dump that damn Lady Vols thing, expect an interesting deposit in your personal bank account. Just a thought that fell out of my head. I don't know any facts or details of how the deal went down.
 
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#481
#481
Slydell said:
I'd like to see some sort of proof about that. I've gone to the games and followed the LV's for over 40 years and never heard anything about a name change before last year.
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I don't have written proof. I just know when I heard of it and it was a before Pat made her announcement about having early onset dementia. There was talk of it then and a big stink about it right at the time of the announcement. It died down after that with Dave saying "no way, I've never considered doing away with the Lady Vols". It's now coming true and it's being spun as a Nike thing and a money saving thing. Both are B.S. and now people are taking that line as the gospel truth when they haven't followed the story. Like I said, say it enough and they will believe it.
 
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#482
#482
Slydell said:
Finances (profitability) can't be the reason, but personal money could be. As in, pretend you're the AD and Nike approaches you with a great deal for the school by switching from Adidas to Nike. And, if you play along and dump that damn Lady Vols thing, expect an interesting deposit in your personal bank account. Just a thought that fell out of my head. I don't know any facts or details of how the deal went down.
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I think it's more along the lines of Dave telling Nike to help me with this and I will make sure we switch from Adidas to Nike. This is the more believable scenario.
 
#483
#483
sanddune50 said:
Maybe you guys can raise the difference it would cost the athletic department to have 2 separate brands. That way some of you Lady Vols fans can cheer for the Lady Vols and have a vested interest in them.
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sanddune50, have you even bothered to read anything about the logo change? If you had, you would know that the AD is not (at the present time) doing away with the Lady Vol logo, he is simply restricting it to the basketball team. This alone makes your assumption, that the change is because of the enormous cost of maintaining two logos and an attempt to save the athletic department money, false. If it were true, the logo would simply be eliminated. Of course, then Dave Hart would have some explaining to do, since he publicly stated shortly before Pat Summitt had to step down that there was no intention to "ever" change the Lady Vol logo. A statement that he has already started to weasel on in his latest comment on the subject when he stated that the basketball team would retain the logo "for the foreseeable future"

What we are seeing now is the implementation of a change that was planned by the powers that be in the Athletic Department at the time of the merger of the men's and women's ADs. Hart got caught out when Pat Summitt heard about the proposed change and braced him on it and he had to retrench. His plan to totally eliminate the logo is, however, proceeding apace, in my opinion. The only thing that will stop the implementation of this plan is if Hart moves on to greener pastures before Pat Summitt is no longer in a position to stop him.

Jim
 
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#484
#484
Orange Maniac said:
Telling someone they need to learn more about running a business without knowing them is pretty short sided and not very smart on your part. The AD was broke when Hart arrived. It's still damn near broke now even with the moves he has made by doing away with the yearly academic donation, consolidating the two AD's and praise be doing away with that money sucking logo. If he is bailing us out financially, he hasn't done much to prove it. When football comes back, and I believe it will, the finances will improve but doing away with a logo is about the last thing that is costing the AD money. If they want to do away with it they need to at least tell us the truth why because finances ain't it.
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It is because they are afraid of how they might appear to the national media. When Brennan of USA today writes an article about how sexist and disrespectful the Lady VOL logo is to women they are afraid of how that makes them look. Politicians are that way. They are spineless. But, instead of surveying the women and showing they are leaders and not politicians and then saying "Hey Christine, your fellow women want to remain Lady VOLS and have no problem being described as Ladies," he bends like the spineless jellyfish that he is because it is much more important for him for Christine to like him than Lady VOLS fans to like him. This goes for Cheeks too. He knows he can just lie to Lady VOL fans and sneak around the truth and get Brennan off his back.
 
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#485
#485
sanddune50 said:
I'm not making up anything. And labeling me a troll because I challenged your assessment confirms you are being less than honest. So where did you hear your supposed information from? What is their tie in with the athletic department? So you would rather the athletic department to struggle a little longer financially to keep a logo that very few universities subscribe to? If so, your not a rationale person and there is no hope for you. Everything you are passing off as fact is hearsay. And fwiw your drinking buddies is not a credible source. Neither is the person knitting a quilt beside you at the Lady Vols game.
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You are making stuff up and being pretty nasty about it, as well as spelling badly, hopefully intentionally. That's enough to make you a troll.
Ok, where I heard about the use of atheletic equip & trainers - from a UTK faculty member.
Would I rather the ad struggle a little longer financially to keep a logo that very few universities subscribe to? - NOBODY has a logo like the Lady Vols logo. It's worth gold in p.r. alone to UT. Over the years, I have spent twice as much as I normally would have for UT gear because I buy both logos, so it seems to me that the LV logo would be an extra revenue stream. I have no idea whether it is some financial burden for UT to maintain it, but I doubt it is. Perhaps you have some numbers on that? If so, presenting that info would be a way for you to actually contribute something to the conversation as opposed to trolling.
 
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#486
#486
sanddune50 said:
Maybe you guys can raise the difference it would cost the athletic department to have 2 separate brands. That way some of you Lady Vols fans can cheer for the Lady Vols and have a vested interest in them.
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lf there actually is a cost to the ad to have 2 separate brands, I would welcome the opportunity to raise the cost for the LV brand.

On edit, I should add I would want written assurances that the money would actually be used for the LV logo and not for, say, a barber shop for the men's football team.
 
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#487
#487
Dave Hart apparently has no problem treating women badly. He just has a problem being singled out by a woman reporter in the national media. Spineless.
 
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#488
#488
Orange Maniac said:
I don't have written proof. I just know when I heard of it and it was a before Pat made her announcement about having early onset dementia. There was talk of it then and a big stink about it right at the time of the announcement. It died down after that with Dave saying "no way, I've never considered doing away with the Lady Vols". It's now coming true and it's being spun as a Nike thing and a money saving thing. Both are B.S. and now people are taking that line as the gospel truth when they haven't followed the story. Like I said, say it enough and they will believe it.
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When Hart claimed there had been a study about the use of the LV logo, he said is was a 4-year study, which means they were thinking about doing away with it even when he was claiming "no way, I've never considered doing away with the Lady Vols."
 
#489
#489
VollyParton said:
When Hart claimed there had been a study about the use of the LV logo, he said is was a 4-year study, which means they were thinking about doing away with it even when he was claiming "no way, I've never considered doing away with the Lady Vols."
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Another lie. The guy has a pattern.
 
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#490
#490
And, for those of you who think that finances were the reason that the Athletic Department (read, Dave Hart) made the decision to do away with the Lady Vol logo, you should take a moment or two and read this article. It explains the terms of the contract between Nike and Tennessee and discusses the fact that the Nike contract is, in the short term, less advantageous than the contract with Adidas. The AD is banking on the fact that the higher percentage from sales of Nike equipment will make the change worthwhile.

And, by the way, the equipment manufacturer provides the athletic team gear as part of the deal. The AD doesn't pay for it.

Jim

P.S. sanddune, I particularly feel that you should read this article. It might cause you to rethink some of your assumptions about the astute business practices you ascribe to the AD.
 
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#491
#491
When you're not a good liar it is best to just tell the truth. People would forgive him for making decisions they don't like. They'll never forgive a liar.
 
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#492
#492
CannonVol80 said:
. His plan to totally eliminate the logo is, however, proceeding apace, in my opinion. The only thing that will stop the implementation of this plan is if Hart moves on to greener pastures before Pat Summitt is no longer in a position to stop him.

Jim
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I can see both sides of this, but to me the idea that Pat Summitt -while suffering from dementia- is pulling the strings is ludicrous.
 
#493
#493
I'm not suggesting that Pat is "pulling the strings". I simply suggest that her presence and active association with the program prevents the AD from doing immediately what he has planned on doing for some time.

Jim
 
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#494
#494
GAVol said:
I can see both sides of this, but to me the idea that Pat Summitt -while suffering from dementia- is pulling the strings is ludicrous.
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Hart was afraid of the potential uproar. Better to do it incrementally.
 
#495
#495
CannonVol80 said:
And, for those of you who think that finances were the reason that the Athletic Department (read, Dave Hart) made the decision to do away with the Lady Vol logo, you should take a moment or two and read this article. It explains the terms of the contract between Nike and Tennessee and discusses the fact that the Nike contract is, in the short term, less advantageous than the contract with Adidas. The AD is banking on the fact that the higher percentage from sales of Nike equipment will make the change worthwhile.

And, by the way, the equipment manufacturer provides the athletic team gear as part of the deal. The AD doesn't pay for it.

Jim

P.S. sanddune, I particularly feel that you should read this article. It might cause you to rethink some of your assumptions about the astute business practices you ascribe to the AD.
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Thanks, Jim. I had not seen that.
 
#498
#498
What is so ironical is you have a program headed by a woman for years who is the pinnacle of non-sexist excellence and barrier breaking and who supports the use of the term "Lady." But, the spineless politicians who run athletic departments are not as strong as women like Pat.
 
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#499
#499
Sandvol said:
Hart probably figured in a couple years Pat wouldn't be in a position to voice an opinion so it'd be easier.
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That, plus we have thousands and thousands of fans that respect and think the world of Pat for what she's done. What some don't understand (those that don't actually follow the LV's) is there is an international fan base for the LV's. It's not just here in Tennessee but worldwide. And, it's all due to Pat and the doors she has kicked down and opened for all.
 
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