Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

[ivyleague]

You can't expect older southern women to get that the term "lady vols" is antiquated--smacks of the early days of women's sports when they were a novelty act ("Oh, look: ladies trying to play basketball!")-- and betrays the equality that most women want and deserve.

I'm in my late 30s, so I don't think the term "older" really applies to me, unless maybe you're 12. And, while I might be southern by birth, I spent about ten years of my life, from the time I was 18 until my late 20s, in both Boston and New York, and I assure you, I fit in very well in both places. It isn't about the term being antiquated. Lady Vols is a brand that is synonymous with perhaps THE most nationally recognizable and continuously lauded sport at UT (women's basketball). I would likely agree with you in most cases, at most universities, if a sudden decision was made to place "Lady" in front of the team name for women's sports, but not at UT. It isn't about being outdated or antiquated. At UT, Lady Vols is a brand that, to be quite honest, represents more continued success than anything the men's teams have to show by a long shot; it does not in any way connote antipathy toward or degradation of women or the women's teams at UT. More importantly, if the athletes who represent(ed) the brand wish for it to remain in place, it should.

 

[Vol8188]

You truly have to be retarded to blame hart for this. For years now many institutions have looked to remove the word "lady" from their school sports teams because it was considered sexist. You don't refer to the men's team as the "gentlemen vols".

Some people are never happy.

 

[Smallvol#1]

1) Scared of women probably isn't the most apropos phrasing. I liken in more to the "men's men" who only find their own personal validation in the men's teams at UT being intimidated by a women's program that has been -- and continues to be -- far more successful than any of the men's teams.

2) What people find "practical," what "makes money," and what is enjoyable aren't always the same. They can be, and often are, mutually exclusive. When discussing higher education, athletics programs aren't necessarily "practical," period. The practicality for colleges and universities is found in academic programs, not athletics. Athletics form a nice add-on and a great revenue source, but at the end of the day, any given university's athletics program is (or should be) fully secondary to the academic program. Likewise, while it may be true that football and, to a smaller extent, men's basketball, bring in more revenue, the fact is, not everyone enjoys football or men's basketball. I don't like to watch football and, to be frank, find much of men's basketball to be borderline unwatchable. Those are my opinions and I recognize that not everyone shares them. However, your opinions are not in any way more valid than mine. Opinions are opinions. We all have them, and they are only truly important to those who hold them. That said, while I wish much success to the football team and the men's basketball program, I'm never going to spend my time or money actually going to watch those teams.

3) To insinuate that the Lady Vols basketball program does not represent UT at the national level is monumentally absurd. I would argue that the women's basketball program is UT's most universally recognizable and respected athletics program. Period. The Lady Vols brand is recognized nationwide and beyond primarily because of the success of the women's basketball program, and is one of the primary reasons why the brand should remain, and not just for basketball, but all women's teams at the university. The fact is, if you want to point to the one athletic program that has done more to bring national recognition and accolades to the university, there is no contest. It's women's basketball.

4) What the hell are you on about "overweight chicks" running down the floor for a layup? I can't think of one member of the women's team that is anything approaching "overweight." That's completely disrespectful to women in general; it makes it seem as if a woman's looks are the only thing that you consider validating about her. You're ridiculous.

So well said, thanks, ivy. But it will go right over the heads of a large percent of the ones demeaning the Lady Vol concept. Ignorance, stupidity, close mindedness...even for you that's a lot to battle against. Good fortune in doing it.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Lady Vols basketball still going...problem solved...who's coming to the strip club with me? First table dance on butchna! :rock2:

Keeping an eye on your daughter?

OK that was really ugly, but how did it make you feel? Think you could possibly put yourself in the woman's place and have some empathy?

 

[jim43]

We looked like goobers with all the Lady Vols stuff...needed to catch up to the rest of the world.

Some people looked like "goobers", and some continue, but it is not the ones who appreciate the "Lady Vol" brand. The rest of the world has been trying to catch up with UT; not the other way around.

It is a step back to take it away. I believe it is very insecure people who want to take it away. Those people cannot stand for the women to be on equal footing, the real "goobers".

 

[Volsfaninva917]

And the fans that only support football...you can't stand them either I presume. Get a life. If you care nothing about women's sports, why try to push you desires and wants on those who do.

The PC crap is the name change at least get your facts correct. And there was NEVER anything said, promoted etc. by any of the women that in any way put down the Volunteer name. OK they are women, you obviously have a problem with that; just ignore them and they can play and succeed without your support...they just don't need your hinderance.

And by the way, I have donated to both men's and women's sports as well as academics, bought tickets, and attended games, so I have put my time, energy, and money behind my university and supported it and it's programs - all of them as possible. I don't tear them down, even though I think swimming, golf, and several other sports are beyond boring. There are those who enjoy them. So great, I support them being interested in something I'm not.

Women want equality so then be equal. Then your going to say you have no idea what "lady vols" stands for blah blah blah cry cry cry. I do support womens athletics at the university of tennessee, I donate to the Tennessee fund which supports all athletics. I even attend a few womens basketball games each year, but we have an athletic director who is trying to straighten out a mess within the athletic department and everyone wants to bring drama into it. Dave Hart has gotten everything right to this point including taking away the Lady Vols name with the exception of womens basketball. If you dont agree thats fine but this is my opinion and I really dont care to hear anymore crying on the subject.

 

[butchna]

Keeping an eye on your daughter?

OK that was really ugly, but how did it make you feel? Think you could possibly put yourself in the woman's place and have some empathy?

That "Lady" isn't on their uniform so they start cutting?

How did I feel about you going after my sixteen year old daughter? I'll ask her what to think of Uncle Small and his demons...she's MY daughter so when she inevitably asks me why you go by SMALL what should I say?

 

[butchna]

Some people looked like "goobers", and some continue, but it is not the ones who appreciate the "Lady Vol" brand. The rest of the world has been trying to catch up with UT; not the other way around.

It is a step back to take it away. I believe it is very insecure people who want to take it away. Those people cannot stand for the women to be on equal footing, the real "goobers".

You seriously think putting Lady in front of Vols puts women's softball on equal ground with football? Hell it never put it on equal ground with the Lady Vols basketball team. It's just a word...the Vols part is the important thing.

 

[Smallvol#1]

You can't expect older southern women to get that the term "lady vols" is antiquated--smacks of the early days of women's sports when they were a novelty act ("Oh, look: ladies trying to play basketball!")-- and betrays the equality that most women want and deserve.

You keep pushing the age and gender. And you KNOW what "most women" want...it must be great to be psychic. In truth you do not know what most women want, neither do I, but so far the women directly tied to UT that have played a sport have been against this name change. So why do it? You can't ask Holly, or the Weeks, or anyone who is employed by UT; they would not dare give a dissenting opinion. Even the current athletes can not speak out without taking a risk of getting crosshairs with the AD.

So consider, if "most women" would want a name change what about the minority of ones who don't? Majority rules (oh I see some fun running with that concept), but what about if the minority is the majority in one area? I.e. Rutgers and UCLA don't want to be known as Ladys...., but the UT women do. One size fits all?

Sounds good to me, as long as I don't have to live in that world unless I get to choose the size for everybody else. And why should I care about anybody else but me?

 

[Smallvol#1]

Thanks for the dough...bro. :thumbsup:

Wow! You are confused! Hint: There are two errors in your post.

 

[butchna]

You keep pushing the age and gender. And you KNOW what "most women" want...it must be great to be psychic. In truth you do not know what most women want, neither do I, but so far the women directly tied to UT that have played a sport have been against this name change. So why do it? You can't ask Holly, or the Weeks, or anyone who is employed by UT; they would not dare give a dissenting opinion. Even the current athletes can not speak out without taking a risk of getting crosshairs with the AD.

So consider, if "most women" would want a name change what about the minority of ones who don't? Majority rules (oh I see some fun running with that concept), but what about if the minority is the majority in one area? I.e. Rutgers and UCLA don't want to be known as Ladys...., but the UT women do. One size fits all?

Sounds good to me, as long as I don't have to live in that world unless I get to choose the size for everybody else. And why should I care about anybody else but me?

Lot of overthinking for one word...Hart did you a favor by dropping it.

 

[92volalum]

Fire the guy who hired butch jones? That makes a lot of sense. Over what? Lady vol basketball? Football is the money maker and nobody cares about the lady vols since pat is gone. They are just a good program now. They're not elite or title contenders anymore. Who cares about their name.

Same thing can be said about tn football. Who cares since Phil is gone. U act like butch has already won a few championships.. Yes on recruiting but very avg n BTW I think the lady vols won the sec recently vs.0 for football.

Hart has zero championships since he has been hired. Ran off sweet 16 coach..f upped football search n hired a cheater for men's bb that can be used against him n recruiting..

 

[Smallvol#1]

Women want equality so then be equal. Then your going to say you have no idea what "lady vols" stands for blah blah blah cry cry cry. I do support womens athletics at the university of tennessee, I donate to the Tennessee fund which supports all athletics. I even attend a few womens basketball games each year, but we have an athletic director who is trying to straighten out a mess within the athletic department and everyone wants to bring drama into it. Dave Hart has gotten everything right to this point including taking away the Lady Vols name with the exception of womens basketball. If you dont agree thats fine but this is my opinion and I really dont care to hear anymore crying on the subject.

I do not see how being female precludes equality. By your logic, the only way to be equal is all to have a sex change.

I sincerely hope the second part in bold above means you aren't posting again.

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

Fire the guy who hired butch jones? That makes a lot of sense. Over what? Lady vol basketball? Football is the money maker and nobody cares about the lady vols since pat is gone. They are just a good program now. They're not elite or title contenders anymore. Who cares about their name.

No one cares about the lady vols?? The 16000+ who showed up to watch holly and the the lady vols curb stomp Kentucky last night say a big hello to you..

 

[ivyleague]

You seriously think putting Lady in front of Vols puts women's softball on equal ground with football? Hell it never put it on equal ground with the Lady Vols basketball team. It's just a word...the Vols part is the important thing.

"Equal ground" according to whom and to what standard? Revenue-wise, softball will never be equal to football (for that matter, neither will baseball).

In terms of having a quality program, UT's softball program is continuously ranked. The football program, not so much lately. So it appears the football program hasn't been equal to the softball program in terms of general success.

What about interest? Sure, many people love Tennessee football. A lot of them love Tennessee softball. Personally, I would rather watch a softball game than a football game. In terms of sheer entertainment value, it is my view that softball far supersedes football. Your opinion is likely different. But again, that doesn't make your opinion more valid or important than mine.

So, again I ask -- equality based on what standard?

If you are that bothered by the Lady Vols logo or by strong and successful women/women's athletic programs in general, you have issues more severe than I care to wonder about.

 

[Smallvol#1]

That "Lady" isn't on their uniform so they start cutting?

How did I feel about you going after my sixteen year old daughter? I'll ask her what to think of Uncle Small and his demons...she's MY daughter so when she inevitably asks me why you go by SMALL what should I say?

The first sentence makes no sense to me.

When you show your sixteen year old daughter my post, please be sure to show her your (her daddy's) posts too. Then see how she feels. That is what I want you to emphasize with. Do you think she wants to know her daddy is in a strip club paying a woman to perform a table dance for him?

After that, if you want to address the SMALL concept, I think she is old enough for that discussion and I would say you are qualified to explain it.

 

[Sandvol]

I think people give Hart way too much credit for the Jones and Tyndall hires. He stumbled into both. Who else was he going to hire? Jones was lobbying for the job. He turned down the Colorado job and was practically standing in front of Hart's office waving placards saying "I want the job." Jones was his third choice after he bumbled the Gandy and then Strong negotiations and then he tried to hire the La. Tech. basketball coach first and was turned down and then went after Tyndall who has been mildly successful but fit into Hart's template of hiring a lower tier coach at a bargain. He really didn't have a whole lot of options after Cuonzo left. So, he stumbled into both hires.

I have trouble with someone who appears to be so threatened by women and appears to be a monumental control freak. Also, he appears to have a problem with truthfulness. Also, why give up a brand that is so recognizable. It is the number 1 most recognizable women's athletic brand. Why willingly give up such a wonderful advantage?

 

[butchna]

"Equal ground" according to whom and to what standard? Revenue-wise, softball will never be equal to football (for that matter, neither will baseball).

In terms of having a quality program, UT's softball program is continuously ranked. The football program, not so much lately. So it appears the football program hasn't been equal to the softball program in terms of general success.

What about interest? Sure, many people love Tennessee football. A lot of them love Tennessee softball. Personally, I would rather watch a softball game than a football game. In terms of sheer entertainment value, it is my view that softball far supersedes football. Your opinion is likely different. But again, that doesn't make your opinion more valid or important than mine.

So, again I ask -- equality based on what standard?

If you are that bothered by the Lady Vols logo or by strong and successful women/women's athletic programs in general, you have issues more severe than I care to wonder about.

I'm not bothered by the Lady Vols logo...it's only on the basketball team now...if I were bothered by it I'm not sure I should be hospitalized...or is that your only option for people that disagree with you? :yu:

 

[ivyleague]

I'm not bothered by the Lady Vols logo...

Your whining here suggests otherwise.

it's only on the basketball team now...

And that's a good thing in your view? You obviously have a problem with the Lady Vols logo. It comes across pretty clearly that you have a negative view of women's sports and, if I had to guess, women in general. Your posting history suggests you only appreciate women who look and behave the way you want them to; anything that doesn't fit into your idea of what a woman is/should be/should do gets classified as irrelevant or unimportant or is demeaned ("overweight chicks running the court" anyone?).

if I were bothered by it I'm not sure I should be hospitalized...or is that your only option for people that disagree with you?

Who suggested you need to be hospitalized? My suggestion would involve you placing your derriere on a lit bottle rocket, but I certainly wouldn't wish you on any hospital.

 

[Sandvol]

Hart reminds me of someone who is fulfilling the Peter Principle. Don't know if any of you have ever read but the principle is someone who eventually ascends into a level of incompetence. Hart probably was a competent lower tier athletic department employee but he is not a leader. He looks and talks like a buffoon during public appearances, says stupid stuff, does not show any leadership capabilities. He is a bureaucrat.

 

[butchna]

I think people give Hart way too much credit for the Jones and Tyndall hires. He stumbled into both. Who else was he going to hire? Jones was lobbying for the job. He turned down the Colorado job and was practically standing in front of Hart's office waving placards saying "I want the job." Jones was his third choice after he bumbled the Gandy and then Strong negotiations and then he tried to hire the La. Tech. basketball coach first and was turned down and then went after Tyndall who has been mildly successful but fit into Hart's template of hiring a lower tier coach at a bargain. He really didn't have a whole lot of options after Cuonzo left. So, he stumbled into both hires.

I have trouble with someone who appears to be so threatened by women and appears to be a monumental control freak. Also, he appears to have a problem with truthfulness. Also, why give up a brand that is so recognizable. It is the number 1 most recognizable women's athletic brand. Why willingly give up such a wonderful advantage?

You keep hiring the right guy and it stops being luck.

 

[Sandvol]

You keep hiring the right guy and it stops being luck.

Well, if you look at the Tyndall hire he is obviously a good basketball coach but Hart definitely didn't do proper due diligence because look at the pickle we're in. If Tyndall gets a show cause will you still feel the same about Hart?

 

[butchna]

Your whining here suggests otherwise.



And that's a good thing in your view? You obviously have a problem with the Lady Vols logo. It comes across pretty clearly that you have a negative view of women's sports and, if I had to guess, women in general. Your posting history suggests you only appreciate women who look and behave the way you want them to; anything that doesn't fit into your idea of what a woman is/should be/should do gets classified as irrelevant or unimportant or is demeaned ("overweight chicks running the court" anyone?).



Who suggested you need to be hospitalized? My suggestion would involve you placing your derriere on a lit bottle rocket, but I certainly wouldn't wish you on any hospital.

Derrière?...fancy. :lol: If we had kept the Lady Vols on the other teams, I wouldn't have cared...kinda like now. All you villagers with your pitchforks and torches wanting to fire Hart are coming across as silly and ridiculous to the people that similarly don't care if Lady is added to anything...the Vols part is the most important thing...your personal attacks on my daughter didn't sway that opinion for me...was creepy tho. I was with her mother for 20 years and never changed a thing about her...she made me a better person so I won't wish anything evil on your bitter pious soul. There's nothing in my posting history that attacks the dignity of women so you're simply lying while postulating...you're a sad humorless worm of a person and I hope you transfer your loud self-important cries for justice to actually respecting real women over freaking letters. :hi:

 

[butchna]

Well, if you look at the Tyndall hire he is obviously a good basketball coach but Hart definitely didn't do proper due diligence because look at the pickle we're in. If Tyndall gets a show cause will you still feel the same about Hart?

He hired with same knowledge that we had...what kind of superpowers do you put on an AD...he hired a helluva COACH...the rest is yet to be seen.

 

[ivyleague]

Derrière?...fancy. :lol: If we had kept the Lady Vols on the other teams, I wouldn't have cared...kinda like now. All you villagers with your pitchforks and torches wanting to fire Hart are coming across as silly and ridiculous to the people that similarly don't care if Lady is added to anything...the Vols part is the most important thing...your personal attacks on my daughter didn't sway that opinion for me...was creepy tho. I was with her mother for 20 years and never changed a thing about her...she made me a better person so I won't wish anything evil on your bitter pious soul. There's nothing in my posting history that attacks the dignity of women so you're simply lying while postulating...you're a sad humorless worm of a person and I hope you transfer your loud self-important cries for justice to actually respecting real women over freaking letters. :hi:

1) I have never suggested that Hart be fired. Not once. He comes across as a bit sleazy and completely oblivious to or disinterested in women's athletics, but I have never posted anything suggesting he be fired.

2) I have never attacked your daughter. Learn to read the names beside posts, Skippy.

3) You may not think your posting history is demeaning to women, but I beg to differ. Your comment that women's basketball consists of "overweight chicks" who run the floor to make layups tells me more than I ever want to know about your misplaced values.

4) I DO respect women. All women. And if the scores of female athletes who have proudly worn the Lady Vols logo want it to remain, it should -- for ALL women's sports programs.