Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

#101
#101
madtownvol said:
Dolly P., now you see the light!

That is why UCLA never mentions John Wooden (who you ask? exactly) or why Alabama has erased all vestiges of the Bear Bryant era; or here in Packer land, why it is forbidden to even say "Vince Lombardi" (its not like you see statues and banners paying homage to Lombardi and all the great former Packers all around Lambeau Field; that would be SOOH distracting from today's game). Tradition and history only gets in the way of building that shiny new brand.

So, it is time to take all those NCAA banners down from Thompson-Boling arena. I mean who wants to be reminded of 8 NC championships?! That was so yesterday. Pat Summitt and the LVs rich history and tradition. bleh! What recruit would to be part of that tired old legacy when they could wear the Power T :superman:!

Seriously, just think about how well abandoning all this outmoded tradition stuff worked for NEW COKE!
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Whoa! I'm not Dolly P.! But I would love it if I could build on her legacy :p

Personally, I like the power T and I think it looks beautiful on tv in the middle of the green football field. New & shiny is good. But, damn, don't just toss the stuff that has long spoken so well for the University! Such as the names "Neyland", "Summitt", "Lady Vols".
 
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#102
#102
madtownvol said:
Dolly P., now you see the light!

That is why UCLA never mentions John Wooden (who you ask? exactly) or why Alabama has erased all vestiges of the Bear Bryant era; or here in Packer land, why it is forbidden to even say "Vince Lombardi" (its not like you see statues and banners paying homage to Lombardi and all the great former Packers all around Lambeau Field; that would be SOOH distracting from today's game). Tradition and history only gets in the way of building that shiny new brand.

So, it is time to take all those NCAA banners down from Thompson-Boling arena. I mean who wants to be reminded of 8 NC championships?! That was so yesterday. Pat Summitt and the LVs rich history and tradition. bleh! What recruit would to be part of that tired old legacy when they could wear the Power T :superman:!

Seriously, just think about how well abandoning all this outmoded tradition stuff worked for NEW COKE!
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Exactly. Erasing "Lady Vols" would to some extent be erasing the most glorious period in UT athletics history.
Who does that ?
Interesting that you mentioned NEW COKE. Coca Cola never had a product that tested better in blind taste tests than NEW COKE. Up to 80% of the testers preferred the sweeter taste of NEW COKE over the original. However, Coca Cola failed to take into account the strong emotional attachment many drinkers had with the original and the backlash forced them to return to the original formula. Sound familiar ?
 
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#103
#103
80%? I say BS on that! if they liked pepsi over coke then originally then maybe but NO Coke drinker preferred the "new" over the old, unless they are limpwristed pantiewaists.....


:)
 
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#104
#104
gule said:
80%? I say BS on that! if they liked pepsi over coke then originally then maybe but NO Coke drinker preferred the "new" over the old, unless they are limpwristed pantiewaists.....


:)
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Gule, you have to get out more.
That figure came from the marketing director at Coca Cola at the time in a tv documentary.

This following is from a wikipedia entry.
"The results of the taste tests were strong – the sweeter mixture overwhelmingly beat both regular Coke and Pepsi."
 
#105
#105
BigOrangeVols said:
Dave Hart coaches women's sports? Dave Hart focuses on football. Which is more important and our money maker. No one but the snobby LV only fans care about the name.
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I would guess the LV players care which is the most important group....I agree with stream lining both programs but getting rid of the logo makes no sense.
 
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#107
#107
you believe a "marketing" director whose job it is to push product over your own good sense & taste buds?

not me, bro!
 
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#111
#111
I'm for all women teams at Tennessee being Lady Vols forever. Guess it is probably over but all the teams will still be Lady Vols to me.
 
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#114
#114
BigOrangeVols said:
I believe the most fitting word would be...the majority.
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That's two words (unless, of course, you are going to tell me that the word "the" is not important to "the majority," which is fine until you try to speak without ever using it). And "the majority" is a completely subjective and wholly unquantifiable term in this regard. How do you know what "the majority" prefers? Who, specifically, makes up this "majority" to which you refer? You say football is more important because it is more important to YOU. However, you, Sunshine, are not the center of anyone's universe but your own. And so what if "the majority" prefers football as you claim? There are a hell of a lot of sports to go around and a lot of people out there who are interested in watching each one of them (and I assure you, there are plenty of people out there who have zero interest in football). The fact that football brings in more revenue overall and has a lot of fans in no way means that women's sports programs are inferior, uninteresting, or that they should not have just as much focus placed upon them by their respective universities' athletic departments as the men's sports programs (football specifically). You seem to think that the women's programs are significantly beneath the men's programs (football specifically) and that these programs should be happy with any scraps the athletic departments deign to give them. The fact is, it doesn't work that way, nor should it. If the women's athletic teams at UT (all of them, not just basketball) want to keep the Lady Vols moniker, then they should be able to do so.

You know something else? There is one program -- ONE -- that the University of Tennessee is universally recognized for, and it isn't football. It isn't men's basketball. It's women's basketball, operating under the "Lady Vols" banner. Outside of east Tennessee and the surrounding areas, where support for all of UT's programs is strong, the one program that brings the most recognition and accolades to the university is women's basketball. So you can refer to the "snobby Lady Vols" fans all day long . . . just know that in doing so, you are in effect bashing the most consistently successful sports program at your university and the one for which it is the most recognized and lauded, both nationally and internationally.
 
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#115
#115
ivyleague said:
That's two words. And "the majority" is a completely subjective and wholly unquantifiable term in this regard. How do you know what "the majority" prefers? Who, specifically, makes up this "majority" to which you refer? You say football is more important because it is more interesting to YOU. However, you, Sunshine, are not the center of anyone's universe but your own. And so what if "the majority" prefers football as you claim? There are a hell of a lot of sports to go around and a lot of people out there who are interested in watching each one of them (and I assure you, there are plenty of people out there who have zero interest in football). The fact that football brings in more revenue overall and has a lot of fans in no way means that women's sports programs are inferior, uninteresting, or that they should not have just as much focus placed upon them by their respective universities' athletic departments as the men's sports programs (football specifically). You seem to think that the women's programs are significantly beneath the men's programs (football specifically) and that these programs should be happy with any scraps the athletic departments deign to give them. The fact is, it doesn't work that way, nor should it. If the women's athletic teams at UT (all of them, not just basketball) want to keep the Lady Vols moniker, then they should be able to do so.

You know something else? There is one program -- ONE -- that the University of Tennessee is universally recognized for, and it isn't football. It isn't men's basketball. It's women's basketball, operating under the "Lady Vols" banner. Outside of east Tennessee and the surrounding areas, where support for all of UT's programs is strong, the one program that brings the most recognition and accolades to the university is women's basketball. So you can refer to the "snobby Lady Vols" fans all day long . . . just know that in doing so, you are in effect bashing the sports program that your university is most consistently recognized and lauded for.
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Not going to quibble with you on this, but I'm going to point out that this discussion is being discussed on a message board where the vast majority of traffic is football oriented. Your passion runs Lady Vols basketball it seems, but the bread and butter of this school is football. Pat Summitt is right next to General Neyland on the Mt Rushmore of Tennessee sports, but she's not peering DOWN at him...she's unequaled in Tennessee at championships but even her perfect season didn't receive the coverage that one of Dooley's recruiting classes did. This coming from a guy who loved watching those Lady Vols champion our state in the 80s and 90s. You're fighting for a logo that's important to you...don't let it skew reality for you.
 
#117
#117
butchna said:
Not going to quibble with you on this, but I'm going to point out that this discussion is being discussed on a message board where the vast majority of traffic is football oriented. Your passion runs Lady Vols basketball it seems, but the bread and butter of this school is football. Pat Summitt is right next to General Neyland on the Mt Rushmore of Tennessee sports, but she's not peering DOWN at him...she's unequaled in Tennessee at championships but even her perfect season didn't receive the coverage that one of Dooley's recruiting classes did. This coming from a guy who loved watching those Lady Vols champion our state in the 80s and 90s. You're fighting for a logo that's important to you...don't let it skew reality for you.
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However, this particular forum is oriented to the Lady Vols. Those who aren't interested in women's basketball or any of the other Lady Vols programs have no need to click on the link or interact on the forum regarding women's athletics. They can stay on whichever forum they prefer and discuss the topics they enjoy. There is certainly no call for these individuals, most of whom I imagine purport to be University of Tennessee fans, to come onto this particular board and in effect bash and demean women's sports by referring to them as "unimportant" or making other disparaging and derogatory remarks about them. And the fact that successful women's sports programs don't always receive the same amount of coverage as even s****y men's programs isn't a reflection of the lack of importance of women's athletics; rather, it is a reflection of the misplaced priorities of those who deem themselves to be in charge of such things. Don't let misguided cultural "norms" that demand the sheeple place more value on men's programs than women's programs skew reality for you.
 
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#118
#118
ivyleague said:
However, this particular forum is oriented to the Lady Vols. Those who aren't interested in women's basketball or any of the other Lady Vols programs have no need to click on the link or interact on the forum regarding women's athletics. They can stay on whichever forum they prefer and discuss the topics they enjoy. There is certainly no call for these individuals, most of whom I imagine purport to be University of Tennessee fans, to come onto this particular board and in effect bash and demean women's sports by referring to them as "unimportant" or making other disparaging and derogatory remarks about them. And the fact that successful women's sports programs don't always receive the same amount of coverage as even s****y men's programs isn't a reflection of the lack of importance of women's athletics; rather, it is a reflection of the misplaced priorities of those who deem themselves to be in charge of such things. Don't let misguided cultural "norms' skew reality for you.
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I don't usually post in this forum and you shouldn't worry that I'll be a regular commentator, but YES I'm a TENNESSEE VOLUNTEER fan, and I root for the women's basketball team as well as other sports...my interest level runs more football and I concentrate more interest there. Your references to "cultural norms" and. " power" sound reasoned out...more so than the "s****y men's programs" outlier which has a tinge of Tourette's to it. I won't mock or disrespect your devotion to this logo, but I'll leave the subject with another analogy. I'm a lifelong Atlanta Braves fan and I keep track of developments and prospects trades et al...there's a thread on this board for like Braves fans...the only apparent one needed. There are Braves fans just as passionate and knowledgable as the most ardent Yankee/Red Sox/Cardinal Nation zealot...there's just not as many of us...I don't resent a Yankee fan for it...there's a million behind him.

Enjoy your devotion...just don't be so angry with people that don't share it. :hi:
 
#120
#120
butchna said:
I don't usually post in this forum and you shouldn't worry that I'll be a regular commentator, but YES I'm a TENNESSEE VOLUNTEER fan, and I root for the women's basketball team as well as other sports...my interest level runs more football and I concentrate more interest there. Your references to "cultural norms" and. " power" sound reasoned out...more so than the "s****y men's programs" outlier which has a tinge of Tourette's to it. I won't mock or disrespect your devotion to this logo, but I'll leave the subject with another analogy. I'm a lifelong Atlanta Braves fan and I keep track of developments and prospects trades et al...there's a thread on this board for like Braves fans...the only apparent one needed. There are Braves fans just as passionate and knowledgable as the most ardent Yankee/Red Sox/Cardinal Nation zealot...there's just not as many of us...I don't resent a Yankee fan for it...there's a million behind him.

Enjoy your devotion...just don't be so angry with people that don't share it. :hi:
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I'm not angry with anyone who doesn't share my "devotion" to the Lady Vols logo. I wouldn't characterize it that way, of course, but you have the right to say what you feel the need to say. What annoys me is the general air of disrespect that many display toward women's athletics -- a general air of disrespect that seems to have pervaded the UT athletic department of late and to which those who only value men's sports have likewise fallen victim. When men no longer feel the need to disrespect women's programs and the woman who are a part of them by commenting on a female athlete's (or coach's) looks rather than her athletic (coaching) ability, when they no longer feel the need to demean or diminish women's sports programs by implying or outright stating that they are inferior to or less valuable or important than men's programs, when "like a girl" and other similar phrases cease to be used as pejoratives, when there is mutual respect and recognition on BOTH sides, then perhaps I too will temper my own words and stop referring to s****y men's teams as s****y. Until then, I imagine we will just have to disagree.
 
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#122
#122
ivyleague said:
I'm not angry with anyone who doesn't share my "devotion" to the Lady Vols logo. I wouldn't characterize it that way, of course, but you have the right to say what you feel the need to say. What annoys me is the general air of disrespect that many display toward women's athletics -- a general air of disrespect that seems to have pervaded the UT athletic department of late and to which those who only value men's sports have likewise fallen victim. When men no longer feel the need to disrespect women's programs and the woman who are a part of them by commenting on a female athlete's (or coach's) looks rather than her athletic (coaching) ability, when they no longer feel the need to demean or diminish women's sports programs by implying or outright stating that they are inferior to or less valuable or important than men's programs, when "like a girl" and other similar phrases cease to be used as pejoratives, when there is mutual respect and recognition on BOTH sides, then perhaps I too will temper my own words and stop referring to s****y men's teams as s****y. Until then, I imagine we will just have to disagree.
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There's always going to be someone to disagree with...I don't think I'm one of them. Good luck in your fight.
 
#123
#123
butchna said:
There's always going to be someone to disagree with...I don't think I'm one of them. Good luck in your fight.
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Here's the thing, butchna. I don't consider myself to be engaged in a "fight." I realize some prefer to be drama queens and characterize it as such, but I'm actually a bit more laid-back and reflective about things. I haven't signed any petitions, sent any letters, or attended any rallies regarding the Lady Vols logo, so I don't think I'm quite the "devoted fighter" you are characterizing me as. However, I have expressed my opinion, and my opinion is resoundingly firm when I say the Lady Vols logo should remain for ALL women's sports programs at Tennessee; I likewise firmly believe that the UT athletic department has, of late, been rather dismissive of the women's athletics programs at the university, with the logo issue being front and center (particularly when it seem fairly apparent that most of the teams did, in fact, wish to keep the logo). I'm simply on the side of doing what's right for those involved; I'm not convinced that that's what is currently happening.
 
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#124
#124
volnationnj said:
Exactly. Erasing "Lady Vols" would to some extent be erasing the most glorious period in UT athletics history.
Who does that ?
Interesting that you mentioned NEW COKE. Coca Cola never had a product that tested better in blind taste tests than NEW COKE. Up to 80% of the testers preferred the sweeter taste of NEW COKE over the original. However, Coca Cola failed to take into account the strong emotional attachment many drinkers had with the original and the backlash forced them to return to the original formula. Sound familiar ?
Click to expand...

Not really. I guess "the Lady Vols" is Coca Cola in this analogy, but what is NEW COKE? Is it the absence of the Lady Vols? Who preferred that in blind taste tests?
 
#125
#125
ivyleague said:
Here's the thing, butchna. I don't consider myself to be engaged in a "fight." I realize some prefer to be drama queens and characterize it as such, but I'm actually a bit more laid-back and reflective about things. I haven't signed any petitions, sent any letters, or attended any rallies regarding the Lady Vols logo, so I don't think I'm quite the "devoted fighter" you are characterizing me as. However, I have expressed my opinion, and my opinion is resoundingly firm when I say the Lady Vols logo should remain for ALL women's sports programs at Tennessee; I likewise firmly believe that the UT athletic department has, of late, been rather dismissive of the women's athletics programs at the university, with the logo issue being front and center (particularly when it seem fairly apparent that most of the teams did, in fact, wish to keep the logo). I'm simply on the side of doing what's right for those involved; I'm not convinced that that's what is currently happening.
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Good!...sounds reasonable...you came across angry and frustrated before...flawed interpretation on my part. :hi:
 
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