Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

[VollyParton]

Overall, Hart has done a good job. He inherited a mess and has put us on a better track across the board. However, I was surprised he chose to pick a fight over the "Lady Vols" brand. With so many other important issues to address, this seemed misdirected. UT has long been a leader in women's sports thanks to Pat. Some have linked this change to Nike, but Nike doesn't run our AD. That having been said we are still lucky to have Hart.

Also, I think Hart needs to get out in front of the sexual assault issue and write the script of how it plays out within the department. Right now it is a building negative; but if managed properly, it can be a case of using lessons learned to make the department better.

It was Hart that said Nike was refusing to provide equipment with the LV logo, because their marketing and branding specialists thought it should go. Nike is denying this. They are saying they had no voice in the decision to drop the LV logo for all women's sports ("all women's sports" is Nike's words).

Hart has so far been incapable of explaining why he's dropping the LV brand without lying. He doesn't seem interesting in fixing the mess and the division he has caused. "One Tennessee" is a calamity. He is too incompetent to be in charge of the UT AD.

 

[Sandvol]

He hired with same knowledge that we had...what kind of superpowers do you put on an AD...he hired a helluva COACH...the rest is yet to be seen.

This is what I mean about Hart having trouble with the truth. He was asked if he did proper due diligence of Tyndall when this all came to light. He said that he had. But, if you remember when the guy from La. Tech. turned us down Tyndall was hired within a few days. He couldn't have done proper due diligence. And, there is nothing wrong with saying that. But, he always seems to say something that isn't quite true. Like his statement about surveying the women's teams about their view on doing away with Lady Vols. Several players have come out saying there was no such survey. He has a problem with the truth. One of the paramount requirements for a leader in his position to have is the ability to know the difference between the truth and have respect for truthfulness. Hamilton was a lot of things and made egregious mistakes. But, at least he was honest. I just have a problem with a person who is basically dishonest.

 

[butchna]

The first sentence makes no sense to me.

When you show your sixteen year old daughter my post, please be sure to show her your (her daddy's) posts too. Then see how she feels. That is what I want you to emphasize with. Do you think she wants to know her daddy is in a strip club paying a woman to perform a table dance for him?

After that, if you want to address the SMALL concept, I think she is old enough for that discussion and I would say you are qualified to explain it.

I was making fun of the highmindedness of the outcry over a freaking logo...haven't been to a strip club since my daughter was born and had been to one maybe two or three times before that...and I was stationed in Germany where there were some real interesting shows...that I didn't participate in...even if I had it's not the evil thing you portray...my daughter tells me she's proud of me...all we have is each other and I have her college paid for. I'll go with her judgement over yours kind sir. :hi:...and she's read a lot of my posts on this forum...she doesn't understand why I like to interact on here so much but neither did her mother...I've never brought somebody else's family into the discussion...shouldn't be something to be proud of...seems like a common decent courtesy. I guess I gave you license to attack my family because I made a strip club reference...I took it down,not because it was obscene but it wasn't the right humor due to what we were discussing...when your blood pressure goes down a tad maybe you'll consider a mea culpa of your own. This issue of a logo is very important to you...I think you'll be on the losing end of in the end...it wasn't important to me so I shouldn't have weighed in...if I had known my daughter would get drawn into this I wouldn't have...some things are more important.

 

[butchna]

1) I have never suggested that Hart be fired. Not once. He comes across as a bit sleazy and completely oblivious to or disinterested in women's athletics, but I have never posted anything suggesting he be fired.

2) I have never attacked your daughter. Learn to read the names beside posts, Skippy.

3) You may not think your posting history is demeaning to women, but I beg to differ. Your comment that women's basketball consists of "overweight chicks" who run the floor to make layups tells me more than I ever want to know about your misplaced values.

4) I DO respect women. All women. And if the scores of female athletes who have proudly worn the Lady Vols logo want it to remain, it should -- for ALL women's sports programs.

On 2. You're right...realized that after I submitted it...you did the same on me...I've never made a reference to overweight women running the court...or overweight women in general...feel free to double check.

 

[ivyleague]

I was making fun of the highmindedness of the outcry over a freaking logo...haven't been to a strip club since my daughter was born and had been to one maybe two or three times before that...and I was stationed in Germany where there were some real interesting shows...that I didn't participate in...even if I had it's not the evil thing you portray...my daughter tells me she's proud of me...all we have is each other and I have her college paid for. I'll go with her judgement over yours kind sir. :hi:...and she's read a lot of my posts on this forum...she doesn't understand why I like to interact on here so much but neither did her mother...I've never brought somebody else's family into the discussion...shouldn't be something to be proud of...seems like a common decent courtesy. I guess I gave you license to attack my family because I made a strip club reference...I took it down,not because it was obscene but it wasn't the right humor due to what we were discussing...when your blood pressure goes down a tad maybe you'll consider a mea culpa of your own. This issue of a logo is very important to you...I think you'll be on the losing end of in the end...it wasn't important to me so I shouldn't have weighed in...if I had known my daughter would get drawn into this I wouldn't have...some things are more important.

You know, you're understandably annoyed that someone disparagingly referenced your daughter on a message board, but you don't stop to think that you are doing essentially the same thing by diminishing the efforts and abilities of female athletes or by insinuating that men's athletic programs are superior to women's athletic programs. That reeks of hypocrisy -- in other words, you can dish out backhanded insults but you can't take them. You have no problem offending others, but heaven forbid anyone offend you. If you're going to be an ass, expect to be treated accordingly.

 

[Sandvol]

1) I have never suggested that Hart be fired. Not once. He comes across as a bit sleazy and completely oblivious to or disinterested in women's athletics, but I have never posted anything suggesting he be fired.

2) I have never attacked your daughter. Learn to read the names beside posts, Skippy.

3) You may not think your posting history is demeaning to women, but I beg to differ. Your comment that women's basketball consists of "overweight chicks" who run the floor to make layups tells me more than I ever want to know about your misplaced values.

4) I DO respect women. All women. And if the scores of female athletes who have proudly worn the Lady Vols logo want it to remain, it should -- for ALL women's sports programs.

I read where most of the Softball team wanted to remain the Lady Vols. I guess they are less important to Hart than the Lady Vol basketball team.

 

[Orange Death]

Lady Vols legacy threatened by lawsuits, name change

Would love to see both Cheek and Hart go. Horrible leaders.

Things change. Get over it.

 

[Sandvol]

If you think about what Hart has said about it doesn't really make sense. He said they surveyed the women's athletic teams and universally they wanted the change. But, he is going to make the basketball team stay the Lady Vols because that's what Pat wanted. So, Pat would want them to stay the Lady Vols if all the team members wanted to change? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Sandvol]

Things change. Get over it.

Not always for the better.

 

[ivyleague]

On 2. You're right...realized that after I submitted it...you did the same on me...I've never made a reference to overweight women running the court...or overweight women in general...feel free to double check.

You are indeed correct. My apologies. That was another poster. Touché.

 

[gule]

Hart Lies

 

[butchna]

You know, you're understandably annoyed that someone disparagingly referenced your daughter on a message board, but you don't stop to think that you are doing essentially the same thing by diminishing the efforts and abilities of female athletes, by insinuating that men's athletic programs are superior to women's athletic programs, and by referring to female basketball players as "overweight chicks." That reeks of hypocrisy -- in other words, you can dish out backhanded insults but you can't take them. You have no problem offending others, but heaven forbid anyone offend you. If you're going to be an ass, expect to be treated accordingly.

Calling my daughter a stripper="demeaning efforts and abilities of a women's basketball player"....fuzzy math...and to repeat myself I've never referenced "overweight basketball" players...never even hinted at women's basketball playing ability...you're mistaken...after you calm down and recheck I'm confident you'll realize that. I don't see the big deal about the logo but I never got personal...so my soul's clear.

 

[butchna]

You are indeed correct. My apologies. That was another poster. Touché.

:hi:

 

[Sandvol]

If Hart would have only been honest about things right from the start. Like for instance if he'd come out and said...." because I wanted the Lady Vol brand to go away. I'm not going to have the only non politically correct athletic department in the SEC. You think I'm going to go to these AD conventions and have my colleagues chide me for being the last hold out? They're going to tell me I don't have control over my department. I'm going to make my stamp on this athletic program. Dave Hart's name will go down in the history books." or

"no I didn't do much due diligence on Tyndall. I didn't have time to do due diligence. That little ya hoo from La. Tech had just turned me down and I didn't want to make it look like I really wanted him and got turned down by a pip squeak like that so I had to make a quick hire to save face. Don't you get that?"

Now, if he'd just been honest I'd had no problem with that.

 

[PowerWookie]

i OK with hart

 

[Smallvol#1]

I was making fun of the highmindedness of the outcry over a freaking logo...haven't been to a strip club since my daughter was born and had been to one maybe two or three times before that...and I was stationed in Germany where there were some real interesting shows...that I didn't participate in...even if I had it's not the evil thing you portray...my daughter tells me she's proud of me...all we have is each other and I have her college paid for. I'll go with her judgement over yours kind sir. :hi:...and she's read a lot of my posts on this forum...she doesn't understand why I like to interact on here so much but neither did her mother...I've never brought somebody else's family into the discussion...shouldn't be something to be proud of...seems like a common decent courtesy. I guess I gave you license to attack my family because I made a strip club reference...I took it down,not because it was obscene but it wasn't the right humor due to what we were discussing...when your blood pressure goes down a tad maybe you'll consider a mea culpa of your own. This issue of a logo is very important to you...I think you'll be on the losing end of in the end...it wasn't important to me so I shouldn't have weighed in...if I had known my daughter would get drawn into this I wouldn't have...some things are more important.

I did not read your whole post, but you're right, she shouldn't have been brought into it. That is why I said it was mean...but it hurt didn't it? However, I am sorry I did so; I never thought others would take it and run. And as far as strippers and evil, no, I don't think it or they are. Pitiful is the word I would choose, both for the men as well as the women involved..sad.

But when people are attacked, when our young athletes are attacked (so and so is "worthless") it doesn't hurt unless it is either personal or one has empathy for others. So I am sorry. I am sure your daughter is a nice young lady, just as I believe our Lady Vols deserve respect, and I remember that the stripper is somebody's baby girl.

And once again, as I told you in a previous post, you have an error in perception.

 

[ALLVOL24/7/365]

This arguement is rediculous. I will not even refer to the womens BB TEAM now by any term on here except as VOLS. THEY ARE VOLS. We can all agree on that. We should never have tried to even retain that old name for women's basketball. I hope they do away with it for them as well.

For those of you fixing to bash me as a guy, I have two daughters and spent from the time they were about 3-4 years old till seniors in high school at 100's of sporting events. We are talking HS soccer, bball, and softball year round sports and summer camps. So I am not against womens sports. Neither of mine are strip for a living either.

I just think the time has come that the sports do not have to be segregated any more by 19th century terms.

 

[butchna]

I did not read your whole post, but you're right, she shouldn't have been brought into it. That is why I said it was mean...but it hurt didn't it? However, I am sorry I did so; I never thought others would take it and run. And as far as strippers and evil, no, I don't think it or they are. Pitiful is the word I would choose, both for the men as well as the women involved..sad.

But when people are attacked, when our young athletes are attacked (so and so is "worthless") it doesn't hurt unless it is either personal or one has empathy for others. So I am sorry. I am sure your daughter is a nice young lady, just as I believe our Lady Vols deserve respect, and I remember that the stripper is somebody's baby girl.

And once again, as I told you in a previous post, you have an error in perception.

Something got lost in the translation here...I got a little cute in my comments, but my whole participation in this thread stemmed from the suggestion that Hart be fired...I can see how his actions can be viewed as arrogant and arbitrary by those passionate about the Lady Vols logo...talking to an active softball mother on this subject who has no allegience to our Vols, she genuflected that when she was looking for softball gear at the UT Bookstore she was looking for gear with just the Power T or UT logo. At the time all that was available was Lady Vols swag...a friend of her daughter's plays for Creighton and everything is integrated there...so our arrangement seems odd to a lot of people...I'm not sure how invested our softball program is to the Lady Vols logo as compared to our women's basketball team and fans. I think a reasonable compromise has been reached but here's to open discourse...I vote keep our AD... sorry if anything else came out as an attack.

 

[Sandvol]

This arguement is rediculous. I will not even refer to the womens BB TEAM now by any term on here except as VOLS. THEY ARE VOLS. We can all agree on that. We should never have tried to even retain that old name for women's basketball. I hope they do away with it for them as well.

For those of you fixing to bash me as a guy, I have two daughters and spent from the time they were about 3-4 years old till seniors in high school at 100's of sporting events. We are talking HS soccer, bball, and softball year round sports and summer camps. So I am not against womens sports. Neither of mine are strip for a living either.

I just think the time has come that the sports do not have to be segregated any more by 19th century terms.

I don't want to keep it because I'm in love with an antiquated 19th century term. I don't know if you've traveled much around the country but everybody knows who the Lady Vols are. Pat Summit and great players like Candace Parker made it a very recognized brand. Other teams like UK refer to their team as just Wildcats. They used to be called Lady Wildcats. But no other womens teams around the country even UCONN or ND caught on like the Lady Vols. It just rolls off the tongue. It is a very recognizable brand and I just hate losing that unique advantage. And, the women athletes don't want to lose it either. It really should be their choice.

P.S.-I still use the terms ladies and gentlemen.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

For those of you too blind to see. Here is the Lady Vols and women's sports future under hart.

Dave Hart coaches women's sports? Dave Hart focuses on football. Which is more important and our money maker. No one but the snobby LV only fans care about the name.

 

[ivyleague]

Dave Hart coaches women's sports? Dave Hart focuses on football. Which is more important and our money maker. No one but the snobby LV only fans care about the name.

More important to whom?

 

[BigOrangeVols]

More important to whom?

I believe the most fitting word would be...the majority.

 

[keckjm]

Hmmm....but he managed to create a large division in the fan base. Women's sports WERE on the same playing grounds as the men's - at UT. The problem is they aren't now...at least in the minds of many fans. Seems like he could figure out the controversy and ill will he has created and just go, 'oops. Drop back and punt, we'll keep the AD as one (and we will treat the women equally, promise, promise) but let all the women's teams be known as the Lady Vols. And I promise no more lies about how they all supported my decision.'

Now if I can just find my orange tinted glasses to put with my big orange blinders.......

Our girls basketball team is a top ten team in the country. That's pretty solid considering we just lost the coach that made women's basketball halfway relevant... You can't expect to not lose some ground when you lose a coach like Pat Summit. No matter who you replace her with, you are down grading considerably. It was a lose-lose situation, and Hart did the best thing, which was hire a long time assistant of the BEST women's basketball coach of all time. Seamed like a no brainer to me...

When you have a system in place that's worked for years you need to try to keep some of that same formula in place if possible. Many teams partake in this philosophy. Go look at Oregon in football, or the 2001 Miami Hurricans team. In the end, Hart made the right hire given the circumstances he was presented with.

Everyone needs to move on from the idea of the Lady Vols. They need to let go of Pat, and understand no one will ever be her or be better than her. Let the Lady Vols be Pat's legacy and let's allow our new coaches a chance to start their own under a new "brand"...

 

[VollyParton]

So you'd be ok with taking "Neyland" off the stadium? Let's give our new football coach a chance to start his own legacy, right? Who needs that old stuff. Let go of the General, those old championships, move on.

 

[madtownvol]

So you'd be ok with taking "Neyland" off the stadium? Let's give our new football coach a chance to start his own legacy, right? Who needs that old stuff. Let go of the General, those old championships, move on.

Volly P., now you see the light!

That is why UCLA never mentions John Wooden (who you ask? exactly) or why Alabama has erased all vestiges of the Bear Bryant era; or here in Packer land, why it is forbidden to even say "Vince Lombardi" (its not like you see statues and banners paying homage to Lombardi and all the great former Packers all around Lambeau Field; that would be SOOH distracting from today's game). Tradition and history only gets in the way of building that shiny new brand.

So, it is time to take all those NCAA banners down from Thompson-Boling arena. I mean who wants to be reminded of 8 NC championships?! That was so yesterday. Pat Summitt and the LVs rich history and tradition. bleh! What recruit would to be part of that tired old legacy when they could wear the Power T :superman:!

Seriously, just think about how well abandoning all this outmoded tradition stuff worked for NEW COKE!