Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

#151
#151
GAVol said:
I understand the frustration over the Lady Vols moniker, but the whole idea of two separate ADs seems redundant and illogical to me.
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I agree they needed to get rid of two different AD's but getting rid of the logo doesn't seem like a smart business decision
 
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#153
#153
Smallvol#1 said:
Why did you quote me since your post has no relationship to mine?SMH Yes, Pat can not be replaced; Holly had earned consideration as head coach...but that has nothing to do with what I had posted. :confused:
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Because you made the statement of "women's basketball/sports is not on the same level as men's sports but it once was". When was any women's sport bigger or equal to UT football? You guys act like our women's sports have tanked and that it's a crime that we want to change the Lady Vols to Vols... Our women's basketball team is a top ten team in the country... We look absolute ridiculous with the logo Lady Vols in this day and age. On top of that, all I hear about is women wanting to be on equal playing grounds as men, but then when Hart does just that, some of you guys lose your minds. Hart was doing the right thing and then folded under social pressure...
 
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#154
#154
keckjm said:
Because you made the statement of "women's basketball/sports is not on the same level as men's sports but it once and was". When was any women's sport bigger or equal to UT football? You guys act like our women's sports have tanked and that it's a crime that we want to change the Lady Vols to Vols... Our women's basketball team is a top ten team in the country... We look absolute ridiculous with the logo Lady Vols in this day and age. On top of that, all I hear about is women wanting to be on equal playing grounds as men, but then when Hart does just that, some of you guys lose your minds. Hart was doing the right thing and then folded under social pressure...
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I was referring to equality, the way athletes were treated, not as to financial strength, successful seasons, or whatever. I have frequently posted that, other than men's and women's basketball, football supports ALL UT athletics. I certainly wish we were consistently #1 in every sport, but I'm not stressing over the fact we aren't. Apparently we have differing opinions on equality. I think removing the Lady, without consulting past or present women athletes, was not right. Now, if they polled the past and present women athletes and the majority wanted to drop it, I would have no problem with dropping it. I personally like it and do not agree with your opinion that it looks ridiculous. But that is my opinion, just as yours is yours. As to hart, I concur with Sandvol...hart is a liar.
 
#155
#155
During Pat's tenure women's basketball didn't support itself. I think it was minus about $700,000 when Pat was making $1.4 million. It is now at break even I have heard.
 
#156
#156
Sandvol said:
During Pat's tenure women's basketball didn't support itself. I think it was minus about $700,000 when Pat was making $1.4 million. It is now at break even I have heard.
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Thanks, Sandvol. I have been told, officially, that it is self supporting (though barely) and that softball is close to being self supporting. My understanding is softball was the closest of all other UT sports to being self supporting (and before someone jumps me, I know football and men's basketball are). That is 2014 data.

Years previously though, we had been told it was. That was not per the AD, but from some relatively significant donars to the program. I believe Pat was not the highest paid WBBC at that time either. So I can see when Pat went to >$1 million it might changed.
 
#157
#157
Watching this whole "controversy" over the merging of the men's and women's athletic programs, and virtual elimination of the "Lady Vol" brand. In a nutshell, while I empathize with those opposed to our athletic department mirroring virtually all other D1 schools in the nation, I say to you, get over it. Move on.

The pro "Lady Vol" folks appear to be hanging on to "unfairness" claims, yet forget that -- back in the day -- Title 9 forced schools to offer equal sports opportunities to women. Back then, the result of this action was often the elimination of non-revenue male sports like wrestling, swimming, etc. at numerous schools. Was that "fair" to men? Of course not.

Yet, now the shoe is on the other foot.

Merging the two programs improves financial efficiencies, unifies "VOL" branding, and reflects the reality of what both men and women represent: THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE.

Our teams aren't comprised of "lady vols" or "male vols" or "transgender mystery vols". They and we are ALL VOLS. Period.

That this issue has now been elevated to the full-blown lawsuit stage is just embarrassing, and brings undue attention and criticism to our school.

One lawsuit alleges:

• Hart directed employees to take down photos, banners and logos related to the Lady Vols that hung inside the UT athletics complex after the two departments merged.

• The common areas were branded with the power T logo, and photographs of female athletes were replaced by photographs of male athletes.

• A UT athletics official ordered only male-sized shoes and clothing for female employees in sports medicine.

Former staffers allege that these anecdotes demonstrate that the merger was handled without "sensitivity" to the women's athletics program and its history.

To quote ESPN, come on, man! Ahem. Pardon me. Better be politically correct here. Come on, woman!

Lady Vols are going bye-bye. The end. You can argue whether it's right or wrong til the cows come home. In the meantime, please don't continue to embarrass the TENNESSEE VOLS brand and all its students and fans with frivolous lawsuits.
 
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#162
#162
Volsfaninva917 said:
Considering he brought the UT athletic department back from the verge of bankruptcy I'd say he's an effing genius.
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Tennessee should have kept the Women's sports separate with a Woman athletic director over them. Hart is good at what he does however success can be cyclical and the pendulum is swinging back toward UT and football success. Hopefully Tennessee will have success soon in all the major sports including Baseball and Softball.
 
#165
#165
Volfan2012 said:
Lady Vols basketball is staying. If he tries to take that all hell will break loose.
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It's coming eventually. He didn't do it now bc a lot of hell has broken loose over the other sports. If they slip up and aren't the "Lady Vols" we think of, they will be Vols.
 
#166
#166
not while I'm alive... they'll always be Lady Vols, every dang team, every sport made up of women at UT.

take that & stuff it. :)
 
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#171
#171
OuterBanksVol said:
Watching this whole "controversy" over the merging of the men's and women's athletic programs, and virtual elimination of the "Lady Vol" brand. In a nutshell, while I empathize with those opposed to our athletic department mirroring virtually all other D1 schools in the nation, I say to you, get over it. Move on.

The pro "Lady Vol" folks appear to be hanging on to "unfairness" claims, yet forget that -- back in the day -- Title 9 forced schools to offer equal sports opportunities to women. Back then, the result of this action was often the elimination of non-revenue male sports like wrestling, swimming, etc. at numerous schools. Was that "fair" to men? Of course not.

Yet, now the shoe is on the other foot.

Merging the two programs improves financial efficiencies, unifies "VOL" branding, and reflects the reality of what both men and women represent: THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE.

Our teams aren't comprised of "lady vols" or "male vols" or "transgender mystery vols". They and we are ALL VOLS. Period.

That this issue has now been elevated to the full-blown lawsuit stage is just embarrassing, and brings undue attention and criticism to our school.

One lawsuit alleges:

• Hart directed employees to take down photos, banners and logos related to the Lady Vols that hung inside the UT athletics complex after the two departments merged.

• The common areas were branded with the power T logo, and photographs of female athletes were replaced by photographs of male athletes.

• A UT athletics official ordered only male-sized shoes and clothing for female employees in sports medicine.

Former staffers allege that these anecdotes demonstrate that the merger was handled without "sensitivity" to the women's athletics program and its history.

To quote ESPN, come on, man! Ahem. Pardon me. Better be politically correct here. Come on, woman!

Lady Vols are going bye-bye. The end. You can argue whether it's right or wrong til the cows come home. In the meantime, please don't continue to embarrass the TENNESSEE VOLS brand and all its students and fans with frivolous lawsuits.
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Yes, and that is really what this is all about. And, it really doesn't matter what the women athletes and former athletes and coaches want-does it? It is about the two hired gun non VOLS Hart and Cheeks flexing their muscles and making us fit in with everybody else. Because that is important to people like you. And, they can be the ones who brought us dumb hicks into the twenty first century. So why make up some story about surveying the women's teams and that is what they wanted? Why not say UT is the last bastion of male chauvinism and me and Jimmy are going to bring you dumb hicks into the modern era and we don't really care what the women athletes want because we know better than they do? It is better to lie?
 
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#172
#172
Sandvol said:
Yes, and that is really what this is all about. And, it really doesn't matter what the women athletes and former athletes and coaches want-does it? It is about the two hired gun non VOLS Hart and Cheeks flexing their muscles and making us fit in with everybody else. Because that is important to people like you. And, they can be the ones who brought us dumb hicks into the twenty first century. So why make up some story about surveying the women's teams and that is what they wanted? Why not say UT is the last bastion of male chauvinism and me and Jimmy are going to bring you dumb hicks into the modern era and we don't really care what the women athletes want because we know better than they do? It is better to lie?
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Not disagreeing with your post, Sandvol, because I know you are making a point. But some idiot will misread that one sentence and say this was done because women were being "demeaned", or whatever word they want to choose, at UT. In actuality, UT was a prime example of equality and respect between the men and women's teams/departments until the cheek/hart "era". Yeah, I know, if read in context you are very clear..but I can just see someone taking that one sentence and running off to prove hart only has the women's best interests at heart. (When it is really best interest/power trip for hart :))
 
#173
#173
Sandvol said:
Yes, and that is really what this is all about. And, it really doesn't matter what the women athletes and former athletes and coaches want-does it? It is about the two hired gun non VOLS Hart and Cheeks flexing their muscles and making us fit in with everybody else. Because that is important to people like you. And, they can be the ones who brought us dumb hicks into the twenty first century. So why make up some story about surveying the women's teams and that is what they wanted? Why not say UT is the last bastion of male chauvinism and me and Jimmy are going to bring you dumb hicks into the modern era and we don't really care what the women athletes want because we know better than they do? It is better to lie?
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Disagree with you on nearly every point. Hart inherited an Athletic Department that was operating at a loss, and had virtually no reserve funds. Why wouldn't he try to eliminate redundant positions and increase efficiency? It's kind of like the little fiefdoms that we have here in the Outer Banks: Every little town has its own government with its own mayor, fire department, police department, etc. We have around 20 towns with a total population of 30,000 people. Talk about overkill.

Look, at the end of the day, women and women sports participants should be THANKING Hart and the two MALE sports that actually generate a profit: Football ($37.6 million annually) and Men's Basketball ($6.9 million annually). Without men's sports, there would be no women's sports without a 100% subsidy from somewhere else. Even the UT girls basketball team loses money every year ($713K).

College athletics is as much as business as it is a sport. Hart made financially prudent and reasonable decisions, and the end result is that both men and women are all VOLS. Time to move on.
 
#174
#174
OuterBanksVol said:
Disagree with you on nearly every point. Hart inherited an Athletic Department that was operating at a loss, and had virtually no reserve funds. Why wouldn't he try to eliminate redundant positions and increase efficiency? It's kind of like the little fiefdoms that we have here in the Outer Banks: Every little town has its own government with its own mayor, fire department, police department, etc. We have around 20 towns with a total population of 30,000 people. Talk about overkill.

Look, at the end of the day, women and women sports participants should be THANKING Hart and the two MALE sports that actually generate a profit: Football ($37.6 million annually) and Men's Basketball ($6.9 million annually). Without men's sports, there would be no women's sports without a 100% subsidy from somewhere else. Even the UT girls basketball team loses money every year ($713K).

College athletics is as much as business as it is a sport. Hart made financially prudent and reasonable decisions, and the end result is that both men and women are all VOLS. Time to move on.
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Hart inherited a department that was in a financial hole because of stupid contracts and buy outs. It had nothing to do with separate athletic departments. The law suits he caused by his actions haven't helped matters at all. People like to say he eliminated redundant positions and that is true, but what they don't tell you is the athletic department has more people now than the combined effort before. How is that saving money? The finances are coming back because of the SEC network money and football revenue picking up along with buyouts ending. Don't be fooled into thinking it's because Mr. Hart is a financial genius and really whipped things into shape. He has done some of that, but the majority of the recovery is not due to his actions.
 
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#175
#175
OuterBanksVol said:
Disagree with you on nearly every point. Hart inherited an Athletic Department that was operating at a loss, and had virtually no reserve funds. Why wouldn't he try to eliminate redundant positions and increase efficiency? Most posters are addressing taking the Lady Vols' name away, not necessarily combining the two departments. Now the way they were combined is open for debate, and may yet be debated in a court of law. I hope not. It's kind of like the little fiefdoms that we have here in the Outer Banks: Every little town has its own government with its own mayor, fire department, police department, etc. We have around 20 towns with a total population of 30,000 people. Talk about overkill.

Look, at the end of the day, women and women sports participants should be THANKING I am sure all the nonrenvenue sports ESPECIALLY THE MALE ONES thank football Hart and the two MALE sports that actually generate a profit: Football ($37.6 million annually) and Men's Basketball ($6.9 million annually). Without men's sports, there would be no women's sports without a 100% subsidy from somewhere else. there would only be two men's sports then...or none at all because BY LAW there has to be equality in numbers. May not like it, there's a lot of laws I don't particularly like, but you abide by them, unless you are willing to pay the consequences. Even the UT girls Ah, now we understand your viewpoint. The girls and the men thank you for your support of our UT athletes.basketball team loses money every year ($713K). I was told by an AD employee, last year, that women's basketball was self supporting. I have no proof that is correct. But since it came from an AD rep, speaking on behalf of the AD in regards to endowments, I would like to believe it, after all, it is either believe it, or the AD is lying to donors, or things have changed in less than a year. Any one of the three is possible.

College athletics is as much as business as it is a sport. Hart made financially prudent and reasonable decisions, At this point I defer to Sandvol, especially as to reasonable.and the end result is that both men and women are all VOLS. This I agree with, we are all Vols and all humans too, you know, man and woman. Or do you want us all to be called hupersons? Time to move on.
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