Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

[Franklin Pierce]

Fire the guy who hired butch jones? That makes a lot of sense. Over what? Lady vol basketball? Football is the money maker and nobody cares about the lady vols since pat is gone. They are just a good program now. They're not elite or title contenders anymore. Who cares about their name.

Butch Jones, in spite of two great recruiting classes, is not yet Phillip Fulmer, General Neyland, Bear Bryant, or Nick Saban.
The jury is still out on whether Jones is a good hire or not. Jones has proven very little so far in the area that is most important: WINS.

 

[Sandvol]

Good!...sounds reasonable...you came across angry and frustrated before...flawed interpretation on my part. :hi:

Butchna, the thing that really irritates me the most about these whole Hart shenanigans is how he has done this and his lack of honesty. I personally prefer to keep the Lady Vol brand for all sports because I think it is a major advantage for us. However, Hart said he surveyed the women's teams and said they were universally in favor of the change but the women's basketball team would stay Lady Vols because that is what Pat wants. This is BS. First, if he truly did survey all the teams and the women universally wanted to change then all the teams should change including the basketball. But, that is not what happened. Hart and Cheeks decided that the politically correct thing to do to harmonize with all their other politically correct buddies at other universities was to make the athletic department gender neutral. This in their mind makes the athletic department "modern" and keeping with the times. And, their name will go down in the annals of UTAD history as the forward thinking leaders that they think they are. However, they should have just come out and said this and not lied about it. Did they not think their lies would be discovered? This truly should be decided by the coaches and the women athletes of the respective teams-the women athletes of UT. Not two male non VOL bureaucrat politicians who will be gone soon but whose decision the Lady Vols will have to probably live with in perpetuity because once it's done it will be difficult to reverse.

 

[butchna]

Butchna, the thing that really irritates me the most about these whole Hart shenanigans is how he has done this and his lack of honesty. I personally prefer to keep the Lady Vol brand for all sports because I think it is a major advantage for us. However, Hart said he surveyed the women's teams and said they were universally in favor of the change but the women's basketball team would stay Lady Vols because that is what Pat wants. This is BS. First, if he truly did survey all the teams and the women universally wanted to change then all the teams should change including the basketball. But, that is not what happened. Hart and Cheeks decided that the politically correct thing to do to harmonize with all their other politically correct buddies at other universities was to make the athletic department gender neutral. This in their mind makes the athletic department "modern" and keeping with the times. And, their name will go down in the annals of UTAD history as the forward thinking leaders that they think they are. However, they should have just come out and said this and not lied about it. Did they not think their lies would be discovered? This truly should be decided by the coaches and the women athletes of the respective teams-the women athletes of UT. Not two male non VOL bureaucrat politicians who will be gone soon but whose decision the Lady Vols will have to probably live with in perpetuity because once it's done it will be difficult to reverse.

You know, I came into this thread with no idea how much that decision affected people...gained some knowledge on the subject and appreciate your viewpoint. I still don't believe Hart's job should be on the line, but this sounds more like a strong arm move. I saw the concession of the basketball team keeping the logo as a compromise and that the move in general as an attempt to strengthen the UT brand...I understand the opposing frustration better now.

 

[GAVol]

I understand the frustration over the Lady Vols moniker, but the whole idea of two separate ADs seems redundant and illogical to me.

 

[Sandvol]

You know, I came into this thread with no idea how much that decision affected people...gained some knowledge on the subject and appreciate your viewpoint. I still don't believe Hart's job should be on the line, but this sounds more like a strong arm move. I saw the concession of the basketball team keeping the logo as a compromise and that the move in general as an attempt to strengthen the UT brand...I understand the opposing frustration better now.

You know though Bruce Pearl was fired because of dishonesty. Hart (and Cheeks) should be held to the same standard.

 

[Sandvol]

I understand the frustration over the Lady Vols moniker, but the whole idea of two separate ADs seems redundant and illogical to me.

We have one AD now and still have Lady Vol team(s). Not a problem.

 

[GAVol]

We have one AD now and still have Lady Vol team(s). Not a problem.

I know, but Hart got killed over the consolidation of the two. There was some serious venom from some people that got their territory infringed upon.

 

[Sandvol]

I know, but Hart got killed over the consolidation of the two. There was some serious venom from some people that got their territory infringed upon.

That consolidation actually started before and concurrently with Hart's hire and was a cost cutting move a lot of universities were doing. There must be some cost advantages of eliminating the Lady Vol brand too but I think it is worth keeping. It is one major advantage our women have over other programs-that brand recognition. You just don't willingly give up something like that. If the university would do a real survey of all current and former women athletes (who they could feasibly contact) and they decided to eliminate the brand then I would support it.

 

[GAVol]

Honestly ... and I'll get killed for it ... as a marketing guy, I think consolidating everything into Vols and compromising on women's basketball makes sense. The talk of "brand recognition" anywhere but in basketball is overblown IMO and mainly just holding onto nostalgia.

 

[Sandvol]

Honestly ... and I'll get killed for it ... as a marketing guy, I think consolidating everything into Vols and compromising on women's basketball makes sense. The talk of "brand recognition" anywhere but in basketball is overblown IMO.

What do you think of the idea of letting the women athletes both current and former decide?

 

[GAVol]

What do you think of the idea of letting the women athletes both current and former decide?

I understand them wanting their voice heard, but do you really think they'd ever want the name changed regardless the case for doing it?

 

[Sandvol]

I understand them wanting their voice heard, but do you really think they'd ever want the name changed regardless the case for doing it?

To be honest if they surveyed all the women they could then I'm not sure how it would turn out. But, it should be VFL's who decide in my opinion.

 

[Sandvol]

What I don't understand is why all the alumnus, BOT's, boosters are allowing two temporary non VOL hired guns to make this decision? At the least it should be in the hands of VOLS.

 

[GAVol]

What I don't understand is why all the alumnus, BOT's, boosters are allowing two temporary non VOL hired guns to make this decision? At the least it should be in the hands of VOLS.

There is plenty of input from then I'm sure. But if they don't let them make decisions, there's no point in having a President and AD.

 

[Sandvol]

There is plenty of input in sure. But if they don't let them make decisions, there's no point in having a President and AD.

That's fine. So, their way of handling this is to lie about it? Hart obviously knew it was important to appear that he got the athlete's input. However, it appears he was afraid of real input so he lied about it. Bad leadership from both him and Cheeks. Those two are incompetent boobs.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Our girls basketball team is a top ten team in the country. That's pretty solid considering we just lost the coach that made women's basketball halfway relevant... You can't expect to not lose some ground when you lose a coach like Pat Summit. No matter who you replace her with, you are down grading considerably. It was a lose-lose situation, and Hart did the best thing, which was hire a long time assistant of the BEST women's basketball coach of all time. Seamed like a no brainer to me...

When you have a system in place that's worked for years you need to try to keep some of that same formula in place if possible. Many teams partake in this philosophy. Go look at Oregon in football, or the 2001 Miami Hurricans team. In the end, Hart made the right hire given the circumstances he was presented with.

Everyone needs to move on from the idea of the Lady Vols. They need to let go of Pat, and understand no one will ever be her or be better than her. Let the Lady Vols be Pat's legacy and let's allow our new coaches a chance to start their own under a new "brand"...

Why did you quote me since your post has no relationship to mine?SMH Yes, Pat can not be replaced; Holly had earned consideration as head coach...but that has nothing to do with what I had posted.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Gule, you have to get out more.
That figure came from the marketing director at Coca Cola at the time in a tv documentary.

This following is from a wikipedia entry.
"The results of the taste tests were strong – the sweeter mixture overwhelmingly beat both regular Coke and Pepsi."

Hmmmm...I would say they needed NEW employees in charge of the "taste lab" (or good analysis of data provided from the tests). Someone was sure off!:loco: or maybe marketing was being marketing...you know "we polled and everyone wanted the change"

 

[Smallvol#1]

I would guess the LV players care which is the most important group....I agree with stream lining both programs but getting rid of the logo makes no sense.

You must be a "snobby Lady Vol fan". :rock:

 

[Smallvol#1]

That's two words (unless, of course, you are going to tell me that the word "the" is not important to "the majority," which is fine until you try to speak without ever using it). And "the majority" is a completely subjective and wholly unquantifiable term in this regard. How do you know what "the majority" prefers? Who, specifically, makes up this "majority" to which you refer? You say football is more important because it is more important to YOU. However, you, Sunshine, are not the center of anyone's universe but your own. And so what if "the majority" prefers football as you claim? There are a hell of a lot of sports to go around and a lot of people out there who are interested in watching each one of them (and I assure you, there are plenty of people out there who have zero interest in football). The fact that football brings in more revenue overall and has a lot of fans in no way means that women's sports programs are inferior, uninteresting, or that they should not have just as much focus placed upon them by their respective universities' athletic departments as the men's sports programs (football specifically). You seem to think that the women's programs are significantly beneath the men's programs (football specifically) and that these programs should be happy with any scraps the athletic departments deign to give them. The fact is, it doesn't work that way, nor should it. If the women's athletic teams at UT (all of them, not just basketball) want to keep the Lady Vols moniker, then they should be able to do so.
You know something else? There is one program -- ONE -- that the University of Tennessee is universally recognized for, and it isn't football. It isn't men's basketball. It's women's basketball, operating under the "Lady Vols" banner. Outside of east Tennessee and the surrounding areas, where support for all of UT's programs is strong, the one program that brings the most recognition and accolades to the university is women's basketball. So you can refer to the "snobby Lady Vols" fans all day long . . . just know that in doing so, you are in effect bashing the most consistently successful sports program at your university and the one for which it is the most recognized and lauded, both nationally and internationally.

I do love reading your posts. Even if I don't agree with you sometimes, I can always admire someone who uses the English language so well!
But...if he wants to worry about "majority" then it would have to be Football, not that American football wimps play, but the real FOOTball; you know, the one where they play the ball with their feet. And before someone goes nonlinear on me I love (American) football. I'm just giving input on what I have heard when traveling overseas. Perspective sort of depends on where one is sitting:yes:.

 

[butchna]

I do love reading your posts. Even if I don't agree with you sometimes, I can always admire someone who uses the English language so well!
But...if he wants to worry about "majority" then it would have to be Football, not that American football wimps play, but the real FOOTball; you know, the one where they play the ball with their feet. And before someone goes nonlinear on me I love (American) football. I'm just giving input on what I have heard when traveling overseas. Perspective sort of depends on where one is sitting:yes:.

.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Not really. I guess "the Lady Vols" is Coca Cola in this analogy, but what is NEW COKE? Is it the absence of the Lady Vols? Who preferred that in blind taste tests?

Lady Vols = Coca Cola
Absence of Lady = New Coke
Preference of blind taste tester = whatever Hart wants

Just my interpretation of it. OP can verify or not.

 

[ivyleague]

I do love reading your posts. Even if I don't agree with you sometimes, I can always admire someone who uses the English language so well!

Thank you.

But...if he wants to worry about "majority" then it would have to be Football, not that American football wimps play, but the real FOOTball; you know, the one where they play the ball with their feet. And before someone goes nonlinear on me I love (American) football. I'm just giving input on what I have heard when traveling overseas. Perspective sort of depends on where one is sitting:yes:.

Indeed.

Perspective, unfortunately, is something that far too many individuals sorely lack.

 

[Smallvol#1]

.

which one is you?

 

[butchna]

which one is you?

Hurts doesn't it ?

 

[Smallvol#1]

Hurts doesn't it ?

Not at all, had nothing to do with me. I just wondered which one was you, so I asked.