Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

[Smallvol#1]

Hart inherited a department that was in a financial hole because of stupid contracts and buy outs. It had nothing to do with separate athletic departments. The law suits he caused by his actions haven't helped matters at all. People like to say he eliminated redundant positions and that is true, but what they don't tell you is the athletic department has more people now than the combined effort before. How is that saving money? The finances are coming back because of the SEC network money and football revenue picking up along with buyouts ending. Don't be fooled into thinking it's because Mr. Hart is a financial genius and really whipped things into shape. He has done some of that, but the majority of the recovery is not due to his actions.

And 1!
Good post, thank you for posting with reason and clarity.

Playing devil's advocate. Three points you make are unquestionable: law suits, SEC network/football revenue/buyouts, and that those 3 greatly affected the financial recovery, but can you provide a reference as to the number of AD employees being greater than before? Since UT is a public school, I presume that data is public record. Thanks again.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Of course. Hart and Cheeks are liars. We know that.

But Dave Hart is THE TRUTH

 

[OuterBanksVol]

...

To your entire post I say PSHAW.

If you support gender equality, you should have no beef here. Like guys had to stomach Title 9, Lady Vols have to stomach a singular athletics department. Nuff said.

 

[madtownvol]

The pro "Lady Vol" folks appear to be hanging on to "unfairness" claims, yet forget that -- back in the day -- Title 9 forced schools to offer equal sports opportunities to women. Back then, the result of this action was often the elimination of non-revenue male sports like wrestling, swimming, etc. at numerous schools. Was that "fair" to men? Of course not. Yet, now the shoe is on the other foot.

I am learning that it is futile to counter unsubstantiated opinions with facts but the claim that Title IX has caused a reduction in men's sport has been debunked, thoroughly. AD's sometimes use Title IX as a justification for making cuts when their football budget explodes but its a CYA move.

One analysis here:False Assumptions: Why Title IX is not to Blame for Changes in Men

One excerpt from this link:

In addition to evidence pointing to other factors as the causes for changes in men’s athletics, there are a few statistics that prove the arguments made against Title IX are unfounded. Statistics show the number of opportunities for males to participate in college athletics has actually increased since the passing of Title IX in 1972. There are currently about 38,000 more male college athletes than there were when Title IX was passed in 1972 (Ali cites Title IX: 40 years of transforming women's lives). Statistics also show that women’s athletics continue to significantly lag behind men’s athletics programs. While women constitute 51% of students at Division I-FBS schools, they only receive about 45% of the athletic opportunities among these schools (Title IX and Athletics). In addition to receiving many more athletic opportunities than women, men also receive the majority of the funding. Based on the NCAA Gender Equity Report, 72% of the total athletic budget of Division I-FBS schools is spent on male athletes. Males also receive about 69% of the recruiting money and 58% of the scholarship money (Title IX and Men’s Sport: A False Conflict).

 

[Smallvol#1]

To your entire post I say PSHAW.

If you support gender equality, you should have no beef here. Like guys had to stomach Title 9, Lady Vols have to stomach a singular athletics department. Nuff said.

You definitely should stick with PSHAW. Your reading comprehension is abysmal; your logic is as well.

 

[Benionsopinion]

Here I am adding fuel to the fire. For those who consider all to be Vols you are right,though calling female teams Lady Vols should not cause some of the vitriolic posts that have shown up. Just as an aside,so all may know where I am on this debate,my wife and I are both Smiths,but she is Gail and I am Benion. We would not both be Benion and that's how it should be. There is nothing inherently wrong about female athletes being Lady Vols.I stand with you,Gule!!

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

Hart did what needed to be done...still let the basketball program keep the name. He has done a great job. We were lucky to get him.

Except for the fact he forced coach summitt into early retirement when she wasn't ready, then he lied about it and tried to cover it up. You conveniently left that part out. I'm eagerly awaiting the day when his ass gets canned and we can actually hire someone who cares about ALL ut athletics, not just ones that are profitable.

 

[Slydell]

Watching this whole "controversy" over the merging of the men's and women's athletic programs, and virtual elimination of the "Lady Vol" brand. In a nutshell, while I empathize with those opposed to our athletic department mirroring virtually all other D1 schools in the nation, I say to you, get over it. Move on.

The pro "Lady Vol" folks appear to be hanging on to "unfairness" claims, yet forget that -- back in the day -- Title 9 forced schools to offer equal sports opportunities to women. Back then, the result of this action was often the elimination of non-revenue male sports like wrestling, swimming, etc. at numerous schools. Was that "fair" to men? Of course not.

Yet, now the shoe is on the other foot.

Merging the two programs improves financial efficiencies, unifies "VOL" branding, and reflects the reality of what both men and women represent: THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE.

Our teams aren't comprised of "lady vols" or "male vols" or "transgender mystery vols". They and we are ALL VOLS. Period.

That this issue has now been elevated to the full-blown lawsuit stage is just embarrassing, and brings undue attention and criticism to our school.

One lawsuit alleges:

• Hart directed employees to take down photos, banners and logos related to the Lady Vols that hung inside the UT athletics complex after the two departments merged.

• The common areas were branded with the power T logo, and photographs of female athletes were replaced by photographs of male athletes.

• A UT athletics official ordered only male-sized shoes and clothing for female employees in sports medicine.

Former staffers allege that these anecdotes demonstrate that the merger was handled without "sensitivity" to the women's athletics program and its history.

To quote ESPN, come on, man! Ahem. Pardon me. Better be politically correct here. Come on, woman!

Lady Vols are going bye-bye. The end. You can argue whether it's right or wrong til the cows come home. In the meantime, please don't continue to embarrass the TENNESSEE VOLS brand and all its students and fans with frivolous lawsuits.

To your entire post I say PSHAW.

If you support gender equality, you should have no beef here. Like guys had to stomach Title 9, Lady Vols have to stomach a singular athletics department. Nuff said.

These two statements dismiss any of your weird arguments, IMO. Not sure why anyone would be against women participating in athletic games. It's sad that Title IX had to be enacted in order to give women equal ground or any ground in sports in which they should have been entitled from the beginning. I'm sure a lot of males felt challenged and still do finding out that a lot of women felt more comfortable excelling in sports than making a sandwich.

 

[butchna]

Except for the fact he forced coach summitt into early retirement when she wasn't ready, then he lied about it and tried to cover it up. You conveniently left that part out. I'm eagerly awaiting the day when his ass gets canned and we can actually hire someone who cares about ALL ut athletics, not just ones that are profitable.

When was she going to "be ready"? Holly shouldered most of the load that last year IMO (Don't get stirred up). Alzheimer's is a tricky subject... Giving her that season and then keeping her in an emeritus honorary position at a $300,000 dollar salary doesn't come across as too callous...I think he's doing too exemplary a job for your wish to become fruition.

 

[Slydell]

I am learning that it is futile to counter unsubstantiated opinions with facts but it the claim that Title IX has caused a reduction in men's sport has been debunked, thoroughly. AD's sometimes use Title IX as a justification for making cuts when their football budget explodes but its a CYA move.

One analysis here:False Assumptions: Why Title IX is not to Blame for Changes in Men

One excerpt from this link:

In addition to evidence pointing to other factors as the causes for changes in men’s athletics, there are a few statistics that prove the arguments made against Title IX are unfounded. Statistics show the number of opportunities for males to participate in college athletics has actually increased since the passing of Title IX in 1972. There are currently about 38,000 more male college athletes than there were when Title IX was passed in 1972 (Ali cites Title IX: 40 years of transforming women's lives). Statistics also show that women’s athletics continue to significantly lag behind men’s athletics programs. While women constitute 51% of students at Division I-FBS schools, they only receive about 45% of the athletic opportunities among these schools (Title IX and Athletics). In addition to receiving many more athletic opportunities than women, men also receive the majority of the funding. Based on the NCAA Gender Equity Report, 72% of the total athletic budget of Division I-FBS schools is spent on male athletes. Males also receive about 69% of the recruiting money and 58% of the scholarship money (Title IX and Men’s Sport: A False Conflict).

Nice find.:hi:

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Except for the fact he forced coach summitt into early retirement when she wasn't ready, then he lied about it and tried to cover it up. You conveniently left that part out. I'm eagerly awaiting the day when his ass gets canned and we can actually hire someone who cares about ALL ut athletics, not just ones that are profitable.

The athletic department was in shambles
Tennessee athletic department mired in $200 million debt | NCAA Football | Sporting News

So yes Harts attention is fully on football at the moment so it can fund womens rowing etc. NCAA athletics are a business and football pays the bills, so does he care about womens cross country at the moment? Honestly probably not, because he's addressing the problems with football to make money for this broke ass athletic department.

 

[OuterBanksVol]

These two statements dismiss any of your weird arguments, IMO. Not sure why anyone would be against women participating in athletic games. It's sad that Title IX had to be enacted in order to give women equal ground or any ground in sports in which they should have been entitled from the beginning. I'm sure a lot of males felt challenged and still do finding out that a lot of women felt more comfortable excelling in sports than making a sandwich.

Not following any logic in your position. Title 9 had a negative effect on men's sports, as it directly resulted in the elimination of a number of male teams to enable athletic departments the wherewithal to financially support new female teams.

Was this "fair" to men? No. Was it the right thing to do? Yes insofar as its goal of creating equal opportunity for women.

I think the real issue at hand is pride. From my perspective lots of women athletes -- like my ex -- have taken pride in being "different" as a Lady Vol. Nothing wrong with that. But at the end of the day, we're all just Vols, right?

There's a reason the rest of the country has a unified athletic department. That's not an accident.

Hart's personnel decisions coupled with his decisive action regarding this issue are testament to his fine leadership. We should be thanking him for breaking our science oven.

 

[GAVol]

Except for the fact he forced coach summitt into early retirement when she wasn't ready, then he lied about it and tried to cover it up. You conveniently left that part out. I'm eagerly awaiting the day when his ass gets canned and we can actually hire someone who cares about ALL ut athletics, not just ones that are profitable.

I never understand the argument that Hart railroaded Summitt. It is a tough situation all the way around, but what was Hart supposed to do? He kept her in her position probably a year longer than he had to and now has her in an emeritus position making a sizable income for basically just being Pat. It's not like he told her to clean out her office and now denies her existence.

 

[northknoxvol]

Hart is an arrogant and borderline female hater......the guy has basically spit on the Lady Vol traditions at UT for no good reason other than his hatred for women. He doesnt like women being in charge so he dismantles the womens athletic dept. Forces Summit out the door....even if it is a day too early it is pitiful treatment for a hall of famer. He has a history of not handling sex crimes the correct way. All this stuff is not necessary and makes no sense. He does have a level of information that nobody else has. Just look at what he said about Butch Jones recently. Dave said that he was going to give the assistants a bigger raise than Butch wanted. Implies that Butch shortchanged his assistant coaches. Brilliant

 

[butchna]

Hart is an arrogant and borderline female hater......the guy has basically spit on the Lady Vol traditions at UT for no good reason other than his hatred for women. He doesnt like women being in charge so he dismantles the womens athletic dept. Forces Summit out the door....even if it is a day too early it is pitiful treatment for a hall of famer. He has a history of not handling sex crimes the correct way. All this stuff is not necessary and makes no sense. He does have a level of information that nobody else has. Just look at what he said about Butch Jones recently. Dave said that he was going to give the assistants a bigger raise than Butch wanted. Implies that Butch shortchanged his assistant coaches. Brilliant

I don't think Hitler could be depicted as worse than this portrayal. :ermm:

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

I never understand the argument that Hart railroaded Summitt. It is a tough situation all the way around, but what was Hart supposed to do? He kept her in her position probably a year longer than he had to and now has her in an emeritus position making a sizable income for basically just being Pat. It's not like he told her to clean out her office and now denies her existence.

I'm sure coach Summitt would have liked to have retired on her on terms, and not to feel like she was being forced out. Hart was the new kid on the block so to speak and coach summitt arguably was one of UT's all time great coaches, if not the greatest. What hart SHOULD have done was step back and let coach retire when she was ready, she def earned at least that much. It's not like she was an invalid. I just thought the situation was handled extremely unprofessional and callous on Hart's part. Not to mention all the lawsuits that multiple women have filed against Hart and the university since he became AD. I understand all you folks who only follow the football or men's basketball team not really caring how hart is single handily destroying womens sports at UT "brick by brick", but for us that are lady vol basketball fans, we care a lot and the majority of us despise Hart, as we should.

 

[GAVol]

Hart is an arrogant and borderline female hater......the guy has basically spit on the Lady Vol traditions at UT for no good reason other than his hatred for women. He doesnt like women being in charge so he dismantles the womens athletic dept. Forces Summit out the door....even if it is a day too early it is pitiful treatment for a hall of famer. He has a history of not handling sex crimes the correct way. All this stuff is not necessary and makes no sense. He does have a level of information that nobody else has. Just look at what he said about Butch Jones recently. Dave said that he was going to give the assistants a bigger raise than Butch wanted. Implies that Butch shortchanged his assistant coaches. Brilliant

This is borderline nut job stuff.

 

[keckjm]

The argument that Hart lied is null at best. Pat wasn't going to give it up, but she needed to. Pat made UT women's basketball what it is today. Iconic. However, she needs to worry about Pat now. Whether Hart pushed the door open or not is irrelevant to the overall point that it was time for her to step down and take care of her health. You can be the best women's basketball coach in the world, like Pat is, and still get pushed out the door at some point. Maybe Hart had the thought process of, Pat's health and quality of life is more important than a few more great seasons with her sitting on the bench. Yea, she earned the right to be there, but she has a serious health condition. We didn't force her out because she got old, we let her go because she became terminally ill. Hart had the impossible job of doing what was best for UT, which was making Pat step down for her own wellbeing. She gave us all she had, and now it's time for her to take care of herself. I'm sure Pat's happiness came from basketball, but there's a time in all our lives that enough is enough. You got to learn to let it go, and focus on taking care of yourself and spending your remaining days with your family and not on the recruiting trail or in the film room.

 

[butchna]

The argument that Hart lied is null at best. Pat wasn't going to give it up, but she needed to. Pat made UT women's basketball what it is today. Iconic. However, she needs to worry about Pat now. Whether Hart pushed the door open or not is irrelevant to the overall point that it was time for her to step down and take care of her health. You can be the best women's basketball coach in the world, like Pat is, and still get pushed out the door at some point. Maybe Hart had the thought process of, Pat's health and quality of life is more important than a few more great seasons with her sitting on the bench. Yea, she earned the right to be there, but she has a serious health condition. We didn't force her out because she got old, we let her go because she became terminally ill. Hart had the impossible job of doing what was best for UT, which was making Pat step down for her own wellbeing. She gave us all she had, and now it's time for her to take care of herself. I'm sure Pat's happiness came from basketball, but there's a time in all our lives that enough is enough. You got to learn to let it go, and focus on taking care of yourself and spending your remaining days with your family and not on the recruiting trail or in the film room.

Well said.

 

[Sandvol]

This issue isn't about Pat or Title 9 or finances or anything like that. My problem with Hart is his dishonesty. He apparently thinks Vol fans are stupid. He apparently thinks it is OK to lie to us. He is a politician, both he and Cheeks and neither have a clue about leadership. Very piss poor job by BOT putting those two in charge.

 

[gule]

Damn straight! Hart stinks! Cheek(booger picker) is clueless, and the BOT should let them both go. especially Cheek.

 

[Nerf_Herder_Vol]

Hart was on the nation tonight. Brice and Chris Low asked him the tough questions about branding, the Lady Vol logo, etc. Hart's responses were clear, concise, and well-founded. After originally siding with those of you who wish to re-instate the brand for all women's teams, I left my vehicle on Hart's side. I would recommend those of you labeled as "fanatics" head over and listen to the conversation as soon as it's uploaded. Perhaps you can better understand the other side of the argument after listening. Again, the radio broadcast is The Nation.

Sports Radio WNML - "The Nation" w/Chris Low & John Brice - Sundays 6 to 7pm

 

[Sandvol]

Hart was on the nation tonight. Brice and Chris Low asked him the tough questions about branding, the Lady Vol logo, etc. Hart's responses were clear, concise, and well-founded. After originally siding with those of you who wish to re-instate the brand for all women's teams, I left my vehicle on Hart's side. I would recommend those of you labeled as "fanatics" head over and listen to the conversation as soon as it's uploaded. Perhaps you can better understand the other side of the argument after listening. Again, the radio broadcast is The Nation.

Sports Radio WNML - "The Nation" w/Chris Low & John Brice - Sundays 6 to 7pm

It is absolutely irrelevant what Hart says. No hired gun non VOL should be making this decision. It should be the decision of the current and former women athletes of the University of Tennessee. Not some temporal mercenary hired gun whose approach was to lie about it like the stinking politician he is.

P.S.-If they really wanted to ask tough questions why didn't they ask what about the athletes who say there was no survey? Ass kissers.

 

[Nerf_Herder_Vol]

It is absolutely irrelevant what Hart says. No hired gun non VOL should be making this decision. It should be the decision of the current and former women athletes of the University of Tennessee. Not some temporal mercenary hired gun whose approach was to lie about it like the stinking politician he is.

P.S.-If they really wanted to ask tough questions why didn't they ask what about the athletes who say there was no survey? Ass kissers.

should have specified no Sandvol. You're a little too out there to have a discussion with. no offense :hi:

 

[Sandvol]

should have specified no Sandvol. You're a little too out there to have a discussion with. no offense :hi:

I guess if expecting honesty and integrity in our leaders is out there then I'm out there.