DC Black Hawk vs Plane crash, Philly Crash. Malicious, or incompotence?

#801
#801
BeardedVol said:
He arrested the decade long decline in staffing.

View attachment 718773

And in 2023 and 2024 the FAA hit their goal for ATC hires.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-hits-1500-controller-hiring-goal-2023
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Okay, good.

What else? Did the training/technology evolve? Of the 12,000 rejected applicants, were some reconsidered if possible? 1 in 12 applicants seems low to me, but then again, it's a high profile job and you'd want the best of the best...

But also, hiring numbers are great, except...

Did the DOT have the capacity to train more? Were additional instructors hired? How about facilities? Were all 1,800 able to start soonest? Etc...

Lot more moving parts than just hiring numbers. Because I saw up to 50% wash it at some point. So, three years down the road, 900 may be available to work.
 
#802
#802
Grand Vol said:
You can't not lay some of the blame at his feet either. He took over in 2021 and had ample opportunity to make changes as well. In hiring practices, in training and in technology.

Did he?

You say he shouldn't be judged on his lifestyle and party affiliation... I say you can't absolve him of blame because of it either. Look, I don't care that he's gay, he was an ineffective Secretary. And I also look long term that is not just a Pete problem. It's a lot like the VA when people tried to blame Obama for their failings.

It's not just an Obama problem... it's a Biden problem, a Trump problem, a Bush problem, a Clinton problem, a Daddy Bush, problem, etc.

Just like the woes at the DOT aren't just Pete's problem...

But what did he do to fix it? And you know the answer as well as I do.
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He's the first secretary to address the shortage, and I believe they met their ladt 2 hiring quotas under him. He is not a failed secretary at all. That's tribal ********.

And I've admitted he shares responsibility in the shortage, but to put all this on him is absurd. You and I both have zero insight into what he put into place to address the problem. He inherited it at its worst and you guys are saying he failed because a decades long problem at its very worst wasn't fixed in 4 years. Unbelievable.
 
#803
#803
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#804
#804
gcbvol said:
He's the first secretary to address the shortage, and I believe they met their ladt 2 hiring quotas under him. He is not a failed secretary at all. That's tribal ********.

And I've admitted he shares responsibility in the shortage, but to put all this on him is absurd. You and I both have zero insight into what he put into place to address the problem. He inherited it at its worst and you guys are saying he failed because a decades long problem at its very worst wasn't fixed in 4 years. Unbelievable.
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He has been abysmal.
 
#805
#805
Grand Vol said:
Okay, good.

What else? Did the training/technology evolve? Of the 12,000 rejected applicants, were some reconsidered if possible? 1 in 12 applicants seems low to me, but then again, it's a high profile job and you'd want the best of the best...

But also, hiring numbers are great, except...

Did the DOT have the capacity to train more? Were additional instructors hired? How about facilities? Were all 1,800 able to start soonest? Etc...

Lot more moving parts than just hiring numbers. Because I saw up to 50% wash it at some point. So, three years down the road, 900 may be available to work.
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Maybe you should ask why your dude and Chao did jack ****. Nah, easier to blame the dude you don't like.
 
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#809
#809
hog88 said:
He brought partial truth. His link doesn’t mention how many hires actually became certified or are still employed.
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Right, we'll have to see. But how can people seriously say he's failed when he's the only secretary in near 15 years to actually shift the trend? Insanity.
 
#810
#810
gcbvol said:
Right, we'll have to see. But how can people seriously say he's failed when he's the only secretary in near 15 years to actually shift the trend? Insanity.
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After they closed school for 6 months it’s only natural there would be an increase once it reopened. If you want to hang your hat on that being a “success” go for it. I mean the tower the other night was understaffed by almost half but he’s knocking it out of the park. Luckily everyone saw what a disaster he is and will be an afterthought going forward. Maybe he can do something with the “man” boob.
 
#811
#811
C-south said:
After they closed school for 6 months it’s only natural there would be an increase once it reopened. If you want to hang your hat on that being a “success” go for it. I mean the tower the other night was understaffed by almost half but he’s knocking it out of the park. Luckily everyone saw what a disaster he is and will be an afterthought going forward. Maybe he can do something with the “man” boob.
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So, let's hear your trashing of Trump for doing less than nothing about it during his first term. Pete did a lot more than Trump.

See, I can easily make the case Trump and Chao are way more responsible for the ATC shortage than Pete. This is so stupid.
 
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#813
#813
Grand Vol said:
Okay, good.

What else? Did the training/technology evolve? Of the 12,000 rejected applicants, were some reconsidered if possible? 1 in 12 applicants seems low to me, but then again, it's a high profile job and you'd want the best of the best...

But also, hiring numbers are great, except...

Did the DOT have the capacity to train more? Were additional instructors hired? How about facilities? Were all 1,800 able to start soonest? Etc...

Lot more moving parts than just hiring numbers. Because I saw up to 50% wash it at some point. So, three years down the road, 900 may be available to work.
Click to expand...
I have no clue what possible advances in technology are available that could help ATC education and certification, feel free to research it and get back to us.

If you want to move the goalpost from "he didn't do enough to hire more ATC's" to " he didn't do enough to advance the ATC training curriculum technology", then you should probably at least familiarize yourself with the the technology that is currently employed.
 
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#814
#814
hog88 said:
He was an ineffectual SOT as a whole.
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Matter of opinion. Considering he took over in the teeth/aftermath of an unprecedented modern global pandemic, I think he did an admirable job. No other moder SOT has had to deal with anything like it. People tend to ignore that. It doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes, but folks ignore context.
 
#816
#816
BeardedVol said:
I have no clue what possible advances in technology are available that could help ATC education and certification, feel free to research it and get back to us.

If you want to move the goalpost from "he didn't do enough to hire more ATC's" to " he didn't do enough to advance the ATC training curriculum technology", then you should probably at least familiarize yourself with the the technology that is currently employed.
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Yep. It's the craziest thing how much Pete is hated around here. Posters can make crude comments about him personally, tell outright lies, and nothing but kudos. But you dare say anything in defense or try to clarify and they pounce all over you.
 
#817
#817
gcbvol said:
Matter of opinion. Considering he took over in the teeth/aftermath of an unprecedented modern global pandemic, I think he did an admirable job. No other moder SOT has had to deal with anything like it. People tend to ignore that. It doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes, but folks ignore context.
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He was horrible. His handwringing during the port strike was inexcusable his failure to approve the work around of the DEF sensors until over a hundred thousand trucks were out of service was nothing but incompetence.
 
#818
#818
gcbvol said:
He's the first secretary to address the shortage, and I believe they met their ladt 2 hiring quotas under him. He is not a failed secretary at all. That's tribal ********.

And I've admitted he shares responsibility in the shortage, but to put all this on him is absurd. You and I both have zero insight into what he put into place to address the problem. He inherited it at its worst and you guys are saying he failed because a decades long problem at its very worst wasn't fixed in 4 years. Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

Oh, I think you know better than to acuse me of tribal feelings. I have no problem calling out anyone from any Admin that doesn't do a good job. And he didn't.

Yes, he halted the hiring shortage for two years. That's good. But what did he do to fix it long term? Because it's like the 400 lbs person saying "hey, I didn't gain any weight this year!"

Well, that's nice... now what are you going to do about the weight you've gained?

Same situation in reverse. What did he do to fix the long term manpower problem? It's one thing to halt the loss, but what plans were made to "put the weight back on" so to speak.

Yes, he's a failed Secretary. But then again, I couldn't name you one over the past 30 years that's impressed anyone. So, the bar isn't exactly high on that.
 
#819
#819
gcbvol said:
Yep. It's the craziest thing how much Pete is hated around here. Posters can make crude comments about him personally, tell outright lies, and nothing but kudos. But you dare say anything in defense or try to clarify and they pounce all over you.
Click to expand...

I don’t hate Pete, he’s probably a nice guy that I would be happy to have a beer with. But that doesn’t change anything about his term as SOT.
 
#820
#820
NashVol11 said:
She was a co-pilot supervised by 2 men, why did that confirm something
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She was the pilot. I've heard this story before. Rescue squadron I was at 20+ years ago has a bird come in with the hardest landing Ive ever seen that wasnt a crash. When we ask why the pilot landed it like that we get yelled at "SHES A HERO!". Her heroism was when she was stationed at Moody AFB and flew a helicopter into power lines and had to get rescued. No died luckily.

Not saying women can't be pilots but I am saying in the military they are never held to the same standard as the guys.
 
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#821
#821
BeardedVol said:
He arrested the decade long decline in staffing.

View attachment 718773

And in 2023 and 2024 the FAA hit their goal for ATC hires.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-hits-1500-controller-hiring-goal-2023
Click to expand...
Looks like we can all actually blame Obama for this.

giphy.gif
 
#822
#822
hog88 said:
I don’t hate Pete, he’s probably a nice guy that I would be happy to have a beer with. But that doesn’t change anything about his term as SOT.
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You may be one of the only ones who doesn't. So, tell me this, even if you feel he failed would you admit he's the best SOT in the last few administrations?
 
#823
#823
FYSA..the ATC target hiring goals are waaaaaaay below what they need because the washout rate at the academy in Okie City is sky high. Shoot for the moon but then it always turns into "Any old port in the storm"..

The FAA has only hired new controllers and technicians like twice a year for as long as I can remember. There is no continuous process/pipeline in place. I blame the unions who represent the instructors.
 
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#824
#824
hog88 said:
I don’t hate Pete, he’s probably a nice guy that I would be happy to have a beer with. But that doesn’t change anything about his term as SOT.
Click to expand...
Pete gave me 3 hours off early every holiday for years. He's ok in my book. Where Pete failed was securing appropriate funding to update FAA infrastructure.
 
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