DC Black Hawk vs Plane crash, Philly Crash. Malicious, or incompotence?

#826
#826
BeardedVol said:
I have no clue what possible advances in technology are available that could help ATC education and certification, feel free to research it and get back to us.

If you want to move the goalpost from "he didn't do enough to hire more ATC's" to " he didn't do enough to advance the ATC training curriculum technology", then you should probably at least familiarize yourself with the the technology that is currently employed.
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That's because I'm not moving the goal post at all. I acknowledge the FAA met hiring targets during his tenure.

But coming from both a hiring and training background, there's a lot, I mean a LOT more to it than just "meeting goals."

Many times, and most in federal jobs will agree, you can be "hired" then wait months and sometimes years for a training position to open. Due to a variety of factors, but usually because of a lack of instructors, training space or combination of both. Not even going to get into the stupidity of covid...

So, I'll give his agency an A for arresting the decline and stopping the sinking ship.

But give them an F for not having any plan to get the boat floating again.
 
#827
#827
FLVOL_79 said:
FYSA..the ATC target hiring goals are waaaaaaay below what they need because the washout rate at the academy in Okie City is sky high. Shoot for the moon but then it always turns into "Any old port in the storm"..

The FAA has only hired new controllers and technicians like twice a year for as long as I can remember. There is no continuous process/pipeline in place. I blame the unions who represent the instructors.
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So, this is a bigger issue than the SOT? I'm sincerely trying to understand what's needed. Multiple of you ATC guys have stated the quotas need to be raised. How does that happen?
 
#832
#832
Grand Vol said:
Oh, I think you know better than to acuse me of tribal feelings. I have no problem calling out anyone from any Admin that doesn't do a good job. And he didn't.

Yes, he halted the hiring shortage for two years. That's good. But what did he do to fix it long term? Because it's like the 400 lbs person saying "hey, I didn't gain any weight this year!"

Well, that's nice... now what are you going to do about the weight you've gained?

Same situation in reverse. What did he do to fix the long term manpower problem? It's one thing to halt the loss, but what plans were made to "put the weight back on" so to speak.

Yes, he's a failed Secretary. But then again, I couldn't name you one over the past 30 years that's impressed anyone. So, the bar isn't exactly high on that.
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Thank you for admitting he's not some terrible anomaly, and did some positive things in this space. I just don't understand why for him the good is dismissed and it's an immediate pivot to a harsh critique. It's like he's held to a higher standard, and that's probably on him and his visibility. It's crazy, though.
 
#834
#834
Grand Vol said:
But I'm not because I don't think he did a good job?
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I've said he made mistakes. 79 is in the business, and is much more familiar with what Pete did and didn't do.

Folks like you and me who do not have all the details can learn from guys like him. And it sounds like some of the things being put on him are things he can't do.
 
#836
#836
gcbvol said:
The lawsuit was from the Obama administration. If it has merit, they will win in court. Right now, we just have claims. But it sounds like the 1,100 plaintiffs all failed a new test introduced under that admin. Personally, I think they probably got screwed, but I don't know all the details.
None of this is Pete's fault.
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Pete f’d up. Paternity leave was a priority though for optics for the beta males.
 
#842
#842
gcbvol said:
So, this is a bigger issue than the SOT? I'm sincerely trying to understand what's needed. Multiple of you ATC guys have stated the quotas need to be raised. How does that happen?
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Congress. Unions need to lobby congress. People like me (senior management) can't.

I'm a firm believer in more automation. We already have the products in place where if you're flying at altitude you don't even have to talk to ATC anymore. Still need human eyes on things though. ATC doesn't do themselves any favors though. They only work half the shift they are scheduled for (the rest is on break). Find a large ATC facility and sit outside it at 6am and watch all the people come out in their pajamas, holding pillows and sleeping bags....
 
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#844
#844
gcbvol said:
She played a part in the declining staffing, where Pete actually increased it. This is way more on her than Pete.
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So you can’t direct me to the deaths. Disregarding the covid layoffs or just when it’s convenient? You plugging the increase is like Biden talking about the jobs he created after the pandemic layoffs.
 
#845
#845
So DEI in hiring ATC. For a handful of years the FAA threw out their old methodology for selecting controllers and used a new and improved for DEI version. You could have literally already been an air traffic controller and they would have said you werent a good fit. Did you play sports though? BLAMO - You're in!! Aaaaand then the 50%+ washout rates started.
 
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#847
#847
Majors said:
So you can’t direct me to the deaths. Disregarding the covid layoffs or just when it’s convenient? You plugging the increase is like Biden talking about the jobs he created after the pandemic layoffs.
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If you're going to play this game, the deaths are on Duffy.
 
#848
#848
gcbvol said:
Yep. It's the craziest thing how much Pete is hated around here. Posters can make crude comments about him personally, tell outright lies, and nothing but kudos. But you dare say anything in defense or try to clarify and they pounce all over you.
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I don't have strong feelings towards him one way or the other, but what I don't understand is that if your primary argument against him is that he wasn't qualified to be in the position, then I don't know how you can honestly support Sean Duffy being the person to replace him, other than saying "well it was my guy that picked him".
 
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#849
#849
gcbvol said:
If you're going to play this game, the deaths are on Duffy.
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I’d say Duffy will be the Sec of Transportation that Peter was hoping to be. But good to see you protect Peter and deflect, we know the teams now. Had Peter done his job Duffy wouldn’t have to do it for him now.
 
#850
#850
FLVOL_79 said:
So DEI in hiring ATC. For a handful of years the FAA threw out their old methodology for selecting controllers and used a new and improved for DEI version. You could have literally already been an air traffic controller and they would have said you werent a good fit. Did you play sports though? BLAMO - You're in!! Aaaaand then the 50%+ washout rates started.
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This happened under Obama, right? I thought I read they scrapped the new test, is that accurate? Are you back to a more skills-based exam?
 
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