Debt ceiling: here we go AGAIN

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
No, that's not my only "grievance." I'm saying I don't understand the posturing under these circumstances.

But setting that aside I asked abiut this idea of permanently creating a mechanism to avoid the ceiling but tie it to mandatory reductions in deficits. I'm for decreased spending to the lower class programs and for increased taxes on the wealthy.

Promote the middle class.
Click to expand...

Promote all "classes" by removing the millstones around the necks of everyone. A rising tide raises all ships.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NurseGoodVol, NorthDallas40 and NEO
#53
#53
NEO said:
Two groups in America: those working and those who aren’t and a large group of working just got so much free money they joined the non working group.

The non working group wants its free stuff and the politicians are winning their votes by offering more.

The working group is screwed and all of them are about to get nailed.
Click to expand...
But Joe isn't raising taxes on anyone making under $400K... I heard him say it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEO
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
Spending is a huge part of the debt issue.

Is there some sort of bomb strapped to your body that will go off if you admit that maybe there are some unwise or undeserved tax breaks and loopholes that the wealthy have created for themselves which are also a part of the problem?

Do we need to call 911 for you?
Click to expand...
spending it truly the only issue wrt debt and deficits. Revenue is there to fund a govt limited to defined duties

you're so caught up in the few wealthy who might get breaks you ignore the millions being helped. They aren't the problem, govt spending is. Until that is cut there should be no talk of raising taxes. The math is out there and already done for you. Just read it
 
  • Like
Reactions: volfanhill, McDad and BreatheUT
#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
The Dems reward their constituents with more social service spending. The GOP rewards their constituency with more tax breaks.

Don't pretend like one has moral authority in this issue. Just flip sides of the same coin and the same result: More debt.
Click to expand...
The Democrats are increasing spend outside the United States also. They are spending money like a drunken sailor on leave in Singapore. At least the tax breaks lets the money stay home in the tax payers pockets.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEO
#58
#58
lawgator1 said:
there are some unwise or undeserved tax breaks and loopholes that the wealthy have created for themselves which are also a part of the problem?
Click to expand...

Tax revenue increased under Trump. It generally increased under Obama. It has increased under every administration.
 
#59
#59
utvolpj said:
Jealousy and complete lack of knowledge
Click to expand...
I am very interested in how the top 1% who are our "public servants" are going to craft a tax policy which extracts the fair share from others while excluding themselves.
 
#60
#60
McDad said:
How would you structure that tax law?

What is the purpose of doing so?
Click to expand...


Flat minimum tax of income, including passive, and reduce tax shelters. Know how much Elon Musk poays in taxes?

The ProPublica report alleged that Musk, who’s worth $152 billion, paid less than $70,000 in federal income tax in 2015 and 2017, and nothing at all in 2018. He did seem to have paid his due in 2016 when he exercised more than $1 billion in stock options. But his overall “true tax rate” for the five-year period between 2014 and 2018, calculated as the amount of tax paid divided by increase in net worth, is only 3.27 percent, much lower than an average American household.
Click to expand...


Someone worth $152 billion who pays an effective rate of 3.2 percent? If you don't think there's an issue there, you are just willfully blind.
 
#62
#62
lawgator1 said:
Flat minimum tax of income, including passive, and reduce tax shelters. Know how much Elon Musk poays in taxes?




Someone worth $152 billion who pays an effective rate of 3.2 percent? If you don't think there's an issue there, you are just willfully blind.
Click to expand...
Your flat minimum applies to everyone or only those with income above a specific amount?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol
#63
#63
lawgator1 said:
Flat minimum tax of income, including passive, and reduce tax shelters. Know how much Elon Musk poays in taxes?




Someone worth $152 billion who pays an effective rate of 3.2 percent? If you don't think there's an issue there, you are just willfully blind.
Click to expand...
Who pays yearly income taxes based on net worth?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 85SugarVol, Rasputin_Vol, NEO and 2 others
#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
Flat minimum tax of income, including passive, and reduce tax shelters. Know how much Elon Musk poays in taxes?




Someone worth $152 billion who pays an effective rate of 3.2 percent? If you don't think there's an issue there, you are just willfully blind.
Click to expand...
Your minimum tax rate wouldnt change how much Musk paid. At least not enough to satisfy you. He can make his billions in a limited time, and then live off it forever. His net worth is completely separate from any type of income he makes.

If you want to tax interest rates or gains, you dont want anyone to retire or save
Increasing dependency on the government.
 
  • Like
Reactions: red butler and McDad
#65
#65
lawgator1 said:
A few thoughts based on a few different scenarios:

1) What is McConnell's opposition to a stand alone debt ceiling measure? Seems like he is saying no to even that because he is trying to prevent passage of the large spending bill. If it was stand alone, it's pretty irresponsible to block it.

2) There has been talk of a measure that would permanently deal with the debt ceiling but tie it to mandatory deficit reduction. That sounds like a reasonable starting point. But both sides arguably hate it because when it's their turn to pay off their constituents with either spending or tax cuts they don't want to be ham-strung.

3) Seems like a really, really bad time to be playing this game.

In the end I am sure they will pass it. But the posturing back and forth seems pointless and costly to me.
Click to expand...

Serious question:

Do you believe debt and spending matters?

And do we agree that inflation primarily harms the poor?
 
#66
#66
lawgator1 said:
Flat minimum tax of income, including passive, and reduce tax shelters. Know how much Elon Musk poays in taxes?




Someone worth $152 billion who pays an effective rate of 3.2 percent? If you don't think there's an issue there, you are just willfully blind.
Click to expand...

Your proposal is a different basis for income tax yet your example is assessing tax rate based on wealth.

You either aren't serious or have a fundamental misunderstanding of income vs wealth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: red butler, Rasputin_Vol, NorthDallas40 and 1 other person
#67
#67
Shouldn't attorneys who want more tax revenue band together and lobby for million-dollar personal injury judgments are taxable? Those judgments are currently not taxed.

I wonder why they don't lobby for those to be taxed?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NurseGoodVol, red butler and LouderVol
#68
#68
volinbham said:
Your proposal is a different basis for income tax yet your example is assessing tax rate based on wealth.

You either aren't serious or have a fundamental misunderstanding of income vs wealth.
Click to expand...
Many times people use their own moral failing as an insult to others.

Perhaps it is LG who is willfully blind?
 
#70
#70
McDad said:
Shouldn't attorneys who want more tax revenue band together and lobby for million-dollar personal injury judgments are taxable? Those judgments are currently not taxed.

I wonder why they don't lobby for those to be taxed?
Click to expand...

They should be, at least at a certain point, especially if part of the claim is lost income or earning capacity.
 
#71
#71
The government doesn’t have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem. Cut your expenses before coming to me for more handouts at the barrel of a gun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rasputin_Vol
#72
#72
lawgator1 said:
Flat minimum tax of income, including passive, and reduce tax shelters. Know how much Elon Musk poays in taxes?




Someone worth $152 billion who pays an effective rate of 3.2 percent? If you don't think there's an issue there, you are just willfully blind.
Click to expand...


He didn’t make 152 billion. His stock is worth that and with all stock could be zero the following day.

He also had very little liquidity and has stated so under oath.

He also owes almost 500 million in debt that his stock was used as collateral.

Musk is a bad example because he cares very little about money. He is trying to sell his 37.5 million dollar home and currently lives in a 50k tiny prefab home.
 
#74
#74
Vol8188 said:
Serious question:

Do you believe debt and spending matters?

And do we agree that inflation primarily harms the poor?
Click to expand...

I agree than debt and spending matter. Why it is so hard for conservatives to admit that the taxation system is easily manipulated to protect the wealthiest? Its so obviously true. And if we ever want to break out of this cycle, both are going to have to give something up.

volinbham said:
Your proposal is a different basis for income tax yet your example is assessing tax rate based on wealth.

You either aren't serious or have a fundamental misunderstanding of income vs wealth.
Click to expand...

I understand the difference, but cannot see how a person who has $152 billion does not have income. I think the only issue is how its characterized, which is how the system is manipulated by the wealthiest.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top