Debt ceiling: here we go AGAIN

#76
#76
lawgator1 said:
They should be, at least at a certain point, especially if part of the claim is lost income or earning capacity.
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How are your efforts to see this enacted coming along? What's your progress?
 
#77
#77
lawgator1 said:
I agree than debt and spending matter. Why it is so hard for conservatives to admit that the taxation system is easily manipulated to protect the wealthiest? Its so obviously true. And if we ever want to break out of this cycle, both are going to have to give something up.



I understand the difference, but cannot see how a person who has $152 billion does not have income. I think the only issue is how its characterized, which is how the system is manipulated by the wealthiest.
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You realize the lower class in our country pay 0 in taxes and that for many of them income tax is actually profitable right? The people paying the taxes in this country are the wealthy and they pay a disproportionate share relative to their income.

Now to my second question. Do we agree inflation (like the kind created by mass spending) harms the poor and increase the wealth gap?
 
#79
#79
Vol8188 said:
Serious question:

Do you believe debt and spending matters?

And do we agree that inflation primarily harms the poor?
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No he doesn't agree and neither do 99% of the politicians that exist today. They "claim" they are for the poor and middle class but their policies always benefit the themselves or their friends and harm the middle class when it comes to taxing and spending
 
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#81
#81
Redleg68 said:
The Democrats are increasing spend outside the United States also. They are spending money like a drunken sailor on leave in Singapore. At least the tax breaks lets the money stay home in the tax payers pockets.
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Drunken sailors stop spending when they run out of money. From a former Navy guy, I can attest to that being true. Congress just prints more. It seems I remember Ras saying once that we should just let it go and start defaulting and get it over with (I could be wrong about that). I tend to agree at this point.
 
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#82
#82
lawgator1 said:
I agree than debt and spending matter. Why it is so hard for conservatives to admit that the taxation system is easily manipulated to protect the wealthiest? Its so obviously true. And if we ever want to break out of this cycle, both are going to have to give something up.



I understand the difference, but cannot see how a person who has $152 billion does not have income. I think the only issue is how its characterized, which is how the system is manipulated by the wealthiest.
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From your own link he paid $70,000 in income tax - that shows he did have income (quite a bit to have $70,000 in taxes).
 
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#86
#86
the market is in a engineered correction to ensure the passage of three bills that never had a hope otherwise, this included the debt ceiling BS>
 
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#87
#87
House passes government funding and debt limit increase destined to hit Senate filibuster

The House passed a stopgap government funding bill paired with an increase in the federal borrowing limit that will likely face a GOP filibuster in the Senate.

The vote was 220-211, with no Republicans supporting the measure.

Democrats, determined to avoid raising the debt limit without GOP support, looped in must-pass funding that will keep the government operating through Dec. 3.

Republicans refused to back the bill, citing their opposition to the Democrats’ $3.5 trillion social welfare spending package they plan to pass in the coming weeks without any GOP support. Republicans say that bill constitutes reckless spending that will contribute to the nation's debt and deficit.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, urged Senate Republicans to block the bill. Senate rules require 60 votes to pass legislation, which means Democrats need at least 10 Republicans to vote for it.

House passes government funding and debt limit increase destined to hit Senate filibuster
 
#88
#88
lawgator1 said:
I understand the difference, but cannot see how a person who has $152 billion does not have income. I think the only issue is how its characterized, which is how the system is manipulated by the wealthiest.
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I'm not in favor of the income tax at all. However, if we are looking for a middle ground, why not tax the individual the same way you tax businesses?

Individuals are taxed on their gross. Why not tax an individual on profit (revenue - expenses)?
 
#89
#89
Amazing that legislators, with the exception of very few, literally do not care about the debt OR what it can/will do. So either they're intentionally trying to crash the system, they're stupid or both. Been saying it forever, but eventually every last program/social safety net is going to get a haircut whether by DC's choosing or not....and it's probably just going to be a complete buzz cut with some big ass clippers. Tax increases can't even touch this level of debt.

The hidden meaning behind the Evergrande blow up: Morning Brief
 
#90
#90
lawgator1 said:
A few thoughts based on a few different scenarios:

1) What is McConnell's opposition to a stand alone debt ceiling measure? Seems like he is saying no to even that because he is trying to prevent passage of the large spending bill. If it was stand alone, it's pretty irresponsible to block it.

2) There has been talk of a measure that would permanently deal with the debt ceiling but tie it to mandatory deficit reduction. That sounds like a reasonable starting point. But both sides arguably hate it because when it's their turn to pay off their constituents with either spending or tax cuts they don't want to be ham-strung.

3) Seems like a really, really bad time to be playing this game.

In the end I am sure they will pass it. But the posturing back and forth seems pointless and costly to me.
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The Democrats control both houses of Congress and can pass anything they wish. Quit trying to blame the minority party for the Dem‘s inability to get things done. I don’t blame McConnell one bit for refusing to give the village idiots on the left a fig leaf of bipartisanship on this one. Let the Dems own their own foolishness
 
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#91
#91
OrangeTsar said:
The Democrats control both houses of Congress and can pass anything they wish. Quit trying to blame the minority party for the Dem‘s inability to get things done. I don’t blame McConnell one bit for refusing to give the village idiots on the left a fig leaf of bipartisanship on this one. Let the Dems own their own foolishness
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False.

The Senate GOP filibuster blocks things.
 
#92
#92
NEO said:
Two groups in America: those working and those who aren’t and a large group of working just got so much free money they joined the non working group.

The non working group wants its free stuff and the politicians are winning their votes by offering more.

The working group is screwed and all of them are about to get nailed.
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Wild to me that the insanely rich in this country can so easily divide and pit the middle class vs the poor as if the poor are the problem. Truly wild.
 
#96
#96
The party who is not in power always becomes fiscally responsible and willing to screw the country over to prove a point.
 
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#97
#97
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not in favor of the income tax at all. However, if we are looking for a middle ground, why not tax the individual the same way you tax businesses?

Individuals are taxed on their gross. Why not tax an individual on profit (revenue - expenses)?
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That's one of the dumber ideas that I've ever heard.
 
#99
#99
NorthDallas40 said:
Neither becomes fiscally responsible. Ever. It’s just neither wants to be holding the bag when our inevitable debt default occurs.
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This guy/gal gets it. Each party plays to its base and in the end nothing changes. Im not a Thomas Massie fan but he made a great point. "In the last three decades, which party has consistently raised or suspended the debt limit without implementing any serious reforms to curtail deficit spending?
Whichever party has been in power."
 
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