Department of Government Efficiency - DOGE

[BernardKingGOAT]

Some people thrive with remote work.

It's easier to thrive when the situation is, "because I can if I feel like it!" Especially when your grinding efforts made it possible

 

[volfanhill]

I'm in the private sector.

I always assumed you owned your own business ... not a hooker joke...maybe

 

[TheDeeble]

No, leases aren’t the reason Corporate America is bringing workers back to the office - that’s just something tangible for you to latch onto.

Corporate America is bringing workers back to the office because teams function more efficiently, and deliver better products, when they are immersed with one another in a collaborative environment.

You recognize wage theft occurs in the office, but somehow think it’s less prevalent at home?

From my experience with WFH people, in general it makes everyone else's life more difficult. I've been griped at because I called and asked for someone to do something "but I'm about to walk my dog can't it wait". I've been griped at because I got someone on the phone, then called back about 10 min later with more information but they were "trying to get their kid to fall asleep and the phone ringing keeps waking her up. Why can't you just send an email." But I did I said. 3 hours ago and nobody has responded. (It was a team email so it went to like 12 people). And that's when I can actually get someone to answer a phone. Look them up in the employee directory and it shows their office phone number. But they don't use those at home. They have personal cell phones that nobody has the number for except each other and their manager. Some had their office phone forwarded to the personal phone. Others just laugh and say oh I never get those calls.

Why is this happening? Because they're working from home. And it's not even like these are people that work in my office. They're in a different building, but at least when they were physically at work they were present and available to do what was needed. But since they're now working from home all semblance of responsibility is gone. Not applicable to everyone as there are some people that are just as great and helpful as when they were at an office computer. But there is a definite overall negative from my interactions.

 

[TheDeeble]

Off topic I know, but when I see your avi it reminds me of feeling full of dread in a hospital which led to the greatest day I can remember. I was watching that game on their tv while waiting for the docs with a loved one. Doc came out a few minutes after that tuddy. Great stuff.

Glad it has two positive memories for you.

 

[85SugarVol]

From my experience with WFH people, in general it makes everyone else's life more difficult. I've been griped at because I called and asked for someone to do something "but I'm about to walk my dog can't it wait". I've been griped at because I got someone on the phone, then called back about 10 min later with more information but they were "trying to get their kid to fall asleep and the phone ringing keeps waking her up. Why can't you just send an email." But I did I said. 3 hours ago and nobody has responded. (It was a team email so it went to like 12 people). And that's when I can actually get someone to answer a phone. Look them up in the employee directory and it shows their office phone number. But they don't use those at home. They have personal cell phones that nobody has the number for except each other and their manager. Some had their office phone forwarded to the personal phone. Others just laugh and say oh I never get those calls.

Why is this happening? Because they're working from home. And it's not even like these are people that work in my office. They're in a different building, but at least when they were physically at work they were present and available to do what was needed. But since they're now working from home all semblance of responsibility is gone. Not applicable to everyone as there are some people that are just as great and helpful as when they were at an office computer. But there is a definite overall negative from my interactions.

I’ve heard multiple people make statements to the effect of -
“I have to work remote tomorrow, I have to [… ] my kids [… ] tomorrow…”

I tell them they should stop saying that out loud.

They just laugh.

 

[volfanhill]

I’ve heard multiple people make statements to the effect of -
“I have to work remote tomorrow, I have to [… ] my kids [… ] tomorrow…”

I tell them they should stop saying that out loud.

They just laugh.

Meh. If they worked at the office they still would have handled the kid situation. In fact they probably got back to work faster since most appointments are going to be scheduled closer to home than work.

It's a manager/leader problem. Not worker. It's an attractive viable benefit. A competitive advantage with competent leadership in jobs where possible

 

[CobbVol]

Any of you work for the government?

Not being a wise-guy, but working a position where if you don’t kill, you don’t eat is different from working government job from home - where you get paid regardless of productivity (see @hog88’s post, above.)

By requiring government employees to work in the office, it will give the new administration a read on who is committed to their careers in public service. It can make any reductions in the workforce easier for all.

 

[volfanhill]

By requiring government employees to work in the office, it will give the new administration a read on who is committed to their careers in public service. It can make any reductions in the workforce easier for all.

For most jobs you don't need to physically see someone to measure their productivity. Just being "present" doesn't mean shat

One lie in business is that the best ability is availability. No. The best ability is productivity. That's where value exists

 

[CobbVol]

For most jobs you don't need to physically see someone to measure their productivity. Just being "present" doesn't mean shat

One lie in business is that the best ability is availability. No. The best ability is productivity. That's where value exists

That is why I was referring to government employees.

 

[volfanhill]

That is why I was referring to government employees.

It's the same with them. Creating more overhead is dumb

 

[CobbVol]

It's the same with them. Creating more overhead is dumb

Having more employees than you need is worse.

 

[85SugarVol]

For most jobs you don't need to physically see someone to measure their productivity. Just being "present" doesn't mean shat

One lie in business is that the best ability is availability. No. The best ability is productivity. That's where value exists

Yea, and if Corporate America believed they were getting the value (productivity) from remote work, they wouldn’t be bringing employees back to the office.

They are going to do whatever the data informs them is in the best interest of the business. They didn’t build those towers by getting lucky over and over.

 

[volfanhill]

Yea, and if Corporate America believed they were getting the value (productivity) from remote work, they wouldn’t be bringing employees back to the office.

They are going to do whatever the data informs them is in the best interest of the business. They didn’t build those towers by getting lucky over and over.

But they really aren't bringing them back at some huge rate. It's a hybrid model. That alone gives you the answer.

 

[85SugarVol]

Meh. If they worked at the office they still would have handled the kid situation. In fact they probably got back to work faster since most appointments are going to be scheduled closer to home than work.

It's a manager/leader problem. Not worker. It's an attractive viable benefit. A competitive advantage with competent leadership in jobs where possible

Eh that’s just the same old mantra from those that support remote work - “more efficient at home”. Corporate actions would indicate they aren’t buying it.

Sure it’s a competitive advantage. And it will be leveraged as long as the market will bear it.

As remote/hybrid continues to dry up in Big Corporate, we’ll likely see mid-size companies attempt to leverage it to attract big talent.

 

[85SugarVol]

But they really aren't bringing them back at some huge rate

Amazon is. Wall St is.
Anecdotally I’ve heard of multiple others that have ended remote/hybrid.

It’s certainly not expanding, it’s contracting. It will continue to do so imo.

 

[volfanhill]

Amazon is. Wall St is.
Anecdotally I’ve heard of multiple others that have ended remote/hybrid.

It’s certainly not expanding, it’s contracting. It will continue to do so imo.

In 10 years do you think it's more or less than pre Covid. A lot of this is old school bosses. Our recently retired CEO was 100% against remote. His hand picked successor is 100% ok with it. He's has had the job for two years. His mantra, that I agree with, is that if productivity is a problem then managers should address. If they can't then it's on them. We will use it as comp advantage. Worked well so far. For the record I'm in operations. There is no work from home

 

[85SugarVol]

In 10 years do you think it's more or less than pre Covid. A lot of this is old school bosses. Our recently retired CEO was 100% against remote. His hand picked successor is 100% ok with it. He's has had the job for two years. His mantra, that I agree with, is that if productivity is a problem then managers should address. If they can't then it's on them. We will use it as comp advantage. Worked well so far. For the record I'm in operations. There is no work from home

Yes, and it will be sooner than that. We’ll suffer another downturn before then - and that will be the dagger imo.

And it wasn't just Amazon that rocked the remote boat: Companies like the Washington Post and UPS announced full-time returns to office this year as well, while others, like Dell, are now limiting career advancement for remote workers.

by hook or by crook -

The latest research from KPMG found that, among 1,325 CEOs worldwide, 8 in 10 believe remote arrangements will be dead in three years or less, with a majority affirming they will reward employees who do return with choice assignments, raises or promotions.

 

[volfanhill]

Yes, and it will be sooner than that. We’ll suffer another downturn before then - and that will be the dagger imo.

And it wasn't just Amazon that rocked the remote boat: Companies like the Washington Post and UPS announced full-time returns to office this year as well, while others, like Dell, are now limiting career advancement for remote workers.

by hook or by crook -

The latest research from KPMG found that, among 1,325 CEOs worldwide, 8 in 10 believe remote arrangements will be dead in three years or less, with a majority affirming they will reward employees who do return with choice assignments, raises or promotions.

Of course there will be a down turn. And I think companies will look to cut costs. Escape rent. They've already practiced hybrid. This whole "collaborate" is crap. In office meetings don't happen. It's teams and zoom in the office so no one gets off their ass

 

[85SugarVol]

Of course there will be a down turn. And I think companies will look to cut costs. Escape rent. They've already practiced hybrid. This whole "collaborate" is crap. In office meetings don't happen. It's teams and zoom in the office so no one gets off their ass

I mean collaboration is a real thing. Some companies do it well, some don’t - but it’s real, and the ones that do it well benefit.

It’s all perspective at the end of the day. I think the argument that companies are bringing them back “cause rent” is crap.

If companies believe it’s better for the bottom line to offer remote - then they’ll offer remote.
If they don’t - they won’t.

I realize it’s en vogue to trash management (and I know you’re management and that’s not directed at you), but those board rooms aren’t overrun with stupid people.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

If jobs can be effectively performed by the WFH workforce, then they can be done for 1/3rd of the cost by staff in India, Mexico, Indo China, etc.

Government workers in government buildings can serve the members of the public that visit the offices and then fill the slower parts of the day doing things that can be done by WFH employees. But WFH employees can’t easily provide service to those walk-ins. I guess the government can install kiosks with cameras in the buildings so walk-ins can interact with the WFH staff.

 

[hog88]

If most workers were truly more efficient at home, producing more and producing better - employers would shutter their offices and send everyone home.

They’re not.

But, but what would they do with all of that incompetent middle management?

 

[hog88]

Meh. If they worked at the office they still would have handled the kid situation. In fact they probably got back to work faster since most appointments are going to be scheduled closer to home than work.

It's a manager/leader problem. Not worker. It's an attractive viable benefit. A competitive advantage with competent leadership in jobs where possible

For the right people you’re right but for far too many no amount of leadership is going to make it work.

 

[hog88]

If jobs can be effectively performed by the WFH workforce, then they can be done for 1/3rd of the cost by staff in India, Mexico, Indo China, etc.

Government workers in government buildings can serve the members of the public that visit the offices and then fill the slower parts of the day doing things that can be done by WFH employees. But WFH employees can’t easily provide service to those walk-ins. I guess the government can install kiosks with cameras in the buildings so walk-ins can interact with the WFH staff.

^^This and it gets easier to let people go when there is no face with the employee number.

 

[FLVOL_79]

From my experience with WFH people, in general it makes everyone else's life more difficult. I've been griped at because I called and asked for someone to do something "but I'm about to walk my dog can't it wait". I've been griped at because I got someone on the phone, then called back about 10 min later with more information but they were "trying to get their kid to fall asleep and the phone ringing keeps waking her up. Why can't you just send an email." But I did I said. 3 hours ago and nobody has responded. (It was a team email so it went to like 12 people). And that's when I can actually get someone to answer a phone. Look them up in the employee directory and it shows their office phone number. But they don't use those at home. They have personal cell phones that nobody has the number for except each other and their manager. Some had their office phone forwarded to the personal phone. Others just laugh and say oh I never get those calls.

Why is this happening? Because they're working from home. And it's not even like these are people that work in my office. They're in a different building, but at least when they were physically at work they were present and available to do what was needed. But since they're now working from home all semblance of responsibility is gone. Not applicable to everyone as there are some people that are just as great and helpful as when they were at an office computer. But there is a definite overall negative from my interactions.

If I had an employee do any of what you said I'd take away their ability to work from home.
And I've forced people back in for less. One of my managers could never respond in less than 30 minutes..he isn't allowed to work from home anymore and is retiring now. I won't replace him either.

 

[jwells]

That wasn’t the question. I was asking how you get the claim that the poor pay half of all sales taxes

I think you misunderstood me. In Tennessee there is no income tax, but a 9%+ sales tax. In Georgia there is an income tax and a lower sales tax (4% GA vs 7% TN base + local).

My mistake was choosing Georgia in my example. After more research on their income tax brackets, turns out they're pretty ****** to the poor and tax them at a fairly low income tax threshold. This, given that much of the South is hard on their working poor, is not surprising.

Ohio would be a better example. State sales tax of 5.75% vs TN 7% and no taxes paid on the first 26k, with 2.x on the next 74k.