Derek Chauvin trial

#2,427
#2,427
Weezer said:
And I don't disagree, but it's also up to the police to address and fix the problem of the bad officers they have among them. Derek Chauvin was a bad cop. Sadly, he'll probably take down 3 other cops who had no idea how to react to what their training officer was doing. Now, imagine if the force itself had weeded that problem out? That's what needs to happen. Police forces need to police themselves as much as they police their communities. Maybe more so, because they represent the law. They should hold themselves to a higher standard, yet in many ways, we're seeing they don't. I'm just asking those who are or have been cops, what's the solution to bad police? I don't believe the majority of cops are bad, which is the picture many want to paint. But you cannot deny that bad cops are out there. How do we, as a society, eliminate that if the police won't speak out against their "brethren"?
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Agree with a lot of this.

You re not going to eliminate bad cops or bad policing. And bad policing and cops dont all fit in the same way. Some are bad at what they do because of training and or experience. Others are just not the type of person capable of making the decisions that they get put in to make. And others may just flat out be bad people. Honestly that's really the situation with anything you want to analyze.
Can you make it better? Sure. Should they do a better job of evaluating and removing people that dont need to be there in that job? Yes. Will you always be able to catch those few problems before a big problem is had? No.

The current climate is not going to help either. I dont think you are going to have people signing up in droves to be cops. Not because of the Chauvin types but rather the fallout when they become the target for something somebody like him did. The reaction to the more recent situation in Columbus is a good example.
Whenever you have a complex problem you need multiple options (sometimes using more than 1) to make improvements. From the cop standpoint you re going to have less to choose from and its easy to understand why. And thats not a good thing.
 
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#2,428
#2,428
Tastylicks said:
I think the biggest problem is that cops are scared of black people. When they talk about "systemic racism" thats one facet of it. I'm not completely sure its racist in nature but I suppose it is as they don't appear to be as scared of white people. Not every type of racism is a guy spouting the N-word, I wish it was that easy. But its not, it can be underlying and not even intentional.
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With George Floyd, the dude was all messed up and handcuffed and yet they were still scared of him. The murderer cop in Dallas, she freaked out at the sight of a black guy in his kitchen. Philando Castile, same thing. Guy had his kids in the car and they were scared of him.

They get scared and they shoot. Gotta stop with that
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You are confusing prejudice with racism. They are two very distinct things. The word racist gets used too much when prejudice is the proper term.

Prejudice unfortunately is human nature. You base beliefs and opinions on your observations and others. Everyone is prejudiced. Officers deal with the worst of humanity routinely. Most of their contacts are negative in nature. Officers, like all of us, see their interactions with those they deal with through that lens. They are no different than you or I by and large, they just see the worst of humanity every.....single..... day.
 
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#2,429
#2,429
SpaceCoastVol said:
Good Lord. You pick one case out of literally millions of contacts to build a hill upon which to die. Mr Botham was a tragedy. Many are not. The 16 year old fool in Columbus was not tragic. She got what she asked for.
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The stupid example BB picked in this case didn’t even apply which is usual for his dumbassery examples chosen.

Botham Jean/Amber Guyger had nothing to do with policing. Amber Guyger was an individual whom happened to be a police officer who made some horribly poor choices on which apartment she thought she was in and who the individual was she encountered.

It had ZERO to do with policing. And she was convicted for her horrible judgment.

But since this was brought up let’s compare how the Jean family reacted to the situation as compared to most of these yahoos that idiots like Ben Crump spool up. There’s a relevant contrast to highlight.
 
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#2,435
#2,435
McDad said:
Because the verdict is wrong? Buttinski political figures? Fear of jurors? Potpourri?
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To me it seems the verdict is somewhat over prosecution however there have been dissection of the MN statutes which say it fits. I absolutely think it met the bar of manslaughter in I’d guess nearly any state. Just speculation on my part.

Just think back to the two times during the trial the Judge even spoke out about external forces. At the start when the city made a crazy high settlement and at the end when Mad Max ran her mouth. Couple that with the article above and...🤷‍♂️. If the juror actually affirmed what the article claimed that sounds like some correlation anyway. Regardless a verdict is now logged and over turning them is quite difficult generally.

Oh and just because an appeal is granted and the case is reheard by a higher court doesn’t mean a reversal is guaranteed. See comments above, I think reversal rates on appeals are quite low which is probably a good thing actually as to the integrity of the judicial system.
 
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#2,436
#2,436
CagleMtnVol said:
As I expected and I bet some was were threatened by fellow jurors.

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I was afraid this was going to happen. MN will burn and jurors were put in a very difficult situation. The case should never have been handled in Minneapolis and the jury sequestered. Dumb move by the judge not to move it.
 
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#2,439
#2,439
Tastylicks said:
I think the biggest problem is that cops are scared of black people. When they talk about "systemic racism" thats one facet of it. I'm not completely sure its racist in nature but I suppose it is as they don't appear to be as scared of white people. Not every type of racism is a guy spouting the N-word, I wish it was that easy. But its not, it can be underlying and not even intentional.
---

With George Floyd, the dude was all messed up and handcuffed and yet they were still scared of him. The murderer cop in Dallas, she freaked out at the sight of a black guy in his kitchen. Philando Castile, same thing. Guy had his kids in the car and they were scared of him.

They get scared and they shoot. Gotta stop with that
Click to expand...
Seeing you post is like watching Beethoven compose the 5th, Michelangelo paint the Sistine Chapel, or even Newton developing his laws. It’s an honor and truly humbling to see you work. I suspect you have me on ignore so you probably won’t see this but your contribution is certainly recognized.
 
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#2,440
#2,440
Tastylicks said:
no thanks. But I'm willing to bet even if I did I would not be shot
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You’re wrong. If they think you’re armed and you aren’t complying you certainly could be shot. I had a gun pulled on me once because I had a hand dangling down over the front of the seat as a cop had me pulled over. I didn’t even realize it and the cop asked if I had something under my seat. I said no, and then leaned forward a little to see why he was asking. Next thing I know he had his gun out yelling to get my hands up immediately. Had I continued down I easily could’ve been shot, all over a mistake. It’s awfully easy to play armchair QB when your life isn’t on the line every day and when you get days to think about what if’s while a cop has minutes or seconds to make a life or death decision. Sure there are bad apples and there are jerks that are cops. Most aren’t and most certainly aren’t racist.
 
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#2,442
#2,442
Once Floyd was handcuffed, Chauvin should have taken his knee off Floyd’s neck. Chauvin should go to jail.

The bigger question is why the police even showed up to the scene? Floyd had left the store with his counterfeit money and was sitting in a car. (If I remember correctly). There are way too many violent crimes happening for law enforcement to worry about a petty situation that was already taken care of. His alleged crime that day was nothing more than the equivalent of a burnt out tag light. We see it all the time were cops show up or pull someone over for petty sh$t and abuse the citizen. (The granny with dementia and the soldier who was looking for a well lighted area).

Police resources would be better served by only working violent crimes. (The cop who prevented the girl from being stabbed)

George Floyd probably would have died from his addition on the street somewhere without many people knowing his name, but an overzealous cop made him famous by taking his life and destroying his in the process.
 
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#2,443
#2,443
Wouldn't it be something if all the black leadership came out publicly and said (in the vein of Dr King) that for this day/week, any black person that has an encounter with the police just don't resist.... don't argue and comply. Be peaceful. Like Dr King did.


The problem is that Dr King is rolling in his grave at the current black leadership.
 
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#2,445
#2,445
BeecherVol said:
Agree with a lot of this.

You re not going to eliminate bad cops or bad policing. And bad policing and cops dont all fit in the same way. Some are bad at what they do because of training and or experience. Others are just not the type of person capable of making the decisions that they get put in to make. And others may just flat out be bad people. Honestly that's really the situation with anything you want to analyze.
Can you make it better? Sure. Should they do a better job of evaluating and removing people that dont need to be there in that job? Yes. Will you always be able to catch those few problems before a big problem is had? No.

The current climate is not going to help either. I dont think you are going to have people signing up in droves to be cops. Not because of the Chauvin types but rather the fallout when they become the target for something somebody like him did. The reaction to the more recent situation in Columbus is a good example.
Whenever you have a complex problem you need multiple options (sometimes using more than 1) to make improvements. From the cop standpoint you re going to have less to choose from and its easy to understand why. And thats not a good thing.
Click to expand...
Based on what I see in other industries around the country, if the same general pool of people are becoming cops then we’re lucky we don’t see way more issues. People are just dumb. I’m still waiting for just 1 person at a drive thru to figure out why those bubbles on the drink lids exist. I actually had someone write the type of drink on the side of the cup recently! Hey, I’m happy they had enough sense to do that as most don’t even think that far ahead but it blows my mind that people can’t look at something right in front of them and apply common sense. I call it the lid phenomenon but it goes way beyond drink lids.
 
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#2,447
#2,447
hUTch2002 said:
Seeing you post is like watching Beethoven compose the 5th, Michelangelo paint the Sistine Chapel, or even Newton developing his laws. It’s an honor and truly humbling to see you work. I suspect you have me on ignore so you probably won’t see this but your contribution is certainly recognized.
Click to expand...

Thank you. And no I don't have anyone on ignore
 
#2,448
#2,448
Weezer said:
And I don't disagree, but it's also up to the police to address and fix the problem of the bad officers they have among them. Derek Chauvin was a bad cop. Sadly, he'll probably take down 3 other cops who had no idea how to react to what their training officer was doing. Now, imagine if the force itself had weeded that problem out? That's what needs to happen. Police forces need to police themselves as much as they police their communities. Maybe more so, because they represent the law. They should hold themselves to a higher standard, yet in many ways, we're seeing they don't. I'm just asking those who are or have been cops, what's the solution to bad police? I don't believe the majority of cops are bad, which is the picture many want to paint. But you cannot deny that bad cops are out there. How do we, as a society, eliminate that if the police won't speak out against their "brethren"?
Click to expand...

You first have to take the military surplus toys away, and remind everyone that police forces are civil law enforcement. Then you can discuss civility. The problem is that there's a segment of "society" that doesn't understand what it means to be a part of a civilized society, so presenting another side may gain some sympathy (from non liberals), but I'd bet the thug population would simply see it as more opportunity. Still we have to draw the line someplace and return to the concept of civil rather than military law enforcement - and weed out bad apples when discovered. I firmly believe the chance to play army in a police uniform attracts bad apples.
 
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#2,450
#2,450
McDad said:
Appeal is an absolute certainty now?
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There absolutely should be a new trial. There can be no justice in a courtroom when any person except the defendant is in fear. Fear in the defendant simply because he/she doesn't control destiny. The justice system is obviously going to have to review how to conduct a trial without putting participants in danger.
 
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