Derrick Henry...New Car.....Bama shenanigans?

[BigOrangeTrain]

I should have just gone ahead and written this post for you, since it was incredibly predictable.

I'll go ahead and write your next one:

Defeatist post on cue from you. Just give it up man, you were called out on your BS and lies.

 

[bamawriter]

Defeatist post on cue from you. Just give it up man, you were called out on your BS and lies.

Oh I was, was I?

Was that during your first or second argument?

 

[rjd970]

My problem with the current state of affairs, is it immoral, unethical, and most importantly illegal at the State and Federal level. Most of the people coming up with these back-end deals have no way of implementing such things, the only thing that will be done is a complete destruction of the current system.

At the end of the day, the colleges should be moving individually as the NCAA will not be able to protect them. It's coming. All you need is players to ask their State Labor Department for a status determination, I would imagine you might get some wide variety of determinations based on the individual state, school, sport, and specific circumstances, I would say most of the big sports the players would be classified as employees, although some might be classified as contractors. Similar to the labor union situation.

As far as some big wide agreement to share revenue or something, I don't see how that is even possible, matter of fact, that would make things worse as then they would be admitting they are employees or contractors. And admitting to things that would probably fall under the RICO statutes.

First, the current way of doing business has to be completely scraped, the schools should be working with their State's labor department to get status determinations, based on those determinations then they can be in position to alter their current programs to met whatever goal they have in mind. Unless they change significantly I would say the big sport players are going to be classified as employees under the labor laws of most States, but that is a generalization.

Do I think players need to be paid?
Not necessarily but big changes would have to be made to the big sport programs to avoid it. Depends on the situation.

Should players be restricted from making money on their own?
I can't think of a reason why player making money from a 3rd party would be anyone's business other than, if they were illegally obtaining money.... say they were a drug dealer and being convicted for it. I doubt even most employment contracts with those kind of requirements would be enforceable let alone a scholarship.

Do I think what is going is immoral and unethical?
Damn straight.

Is it the end of college football?
Absolutely not, most college sports are not even regulated like the major sports, I would have to guess that most college athlete have very little restrictions.

Is Henry wrong for taking cars or money?
Absolutely not, he has a right to make a buck just like anyone else, not much of anyone's business that I can see. Good for him.

One thing I suspect, it's going to be a disaster, if the colleges do not get ahead of this very soon, it's coming whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what is the qualifier here? Should this be the same case for the women's swimming team? Is it the amount of money being made? Is so, what is the amount where the labor laws apply?

There are a lot of devil in the detail stuff to be hashed out. The flip side here is the NCAA can finally treat this like an amateur sport and enforce evenly across the board, and kick back the money to the schools to further the mission of an academic institution. Cap the revenue going back to the sports programs at a set amount and any school that generates that cap gets to keep it for whatever they choose, sports or not. Allow athletes to go pro immediately if they so choose. Hold million dollar coaches accountable for recruiting busts and mandate 4 year scholarships for any athlete that meets certain ethical and academic standards.

The problem now is we are caught in the middle. Some parts are treated like a business, others are treated like amateur sports. It needs to be one or the other. I'm not even sure I care which way it goes, but the system now is broke and breeds nothing but a ripe environment for corruption and competitive disadvantage. When everyone isn't playing by the same rules what's the point?

 

[bamawriter]

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what is the qualifier here? Should this be the same case for the women's swimming team? Is it the amount of money being made? Is so, what is the amount where the labor laws apply?

There are a lot of devil in the detail stuff to be hashed out. The flip side here is the NCAA can finally treat this like an amateur sport and enforce evenly across the board, and kick back the money to the schools to further the mission of an academic institution. Cap the revenue going back to the sports programs at a set amount and any school that generates that cap gets to keep it for whatever they choose, sports or not. Allow athletes to go pro immediately if they so choose. Hold million dollar coaches accountable for recruiting busts and mandate 4 year scholarships for any athlete that meets certain ethical and academic standards.

The problem now is we are caught in the middle. Some parts are treated like a business, others are treated like amateur sports. It needs to be one or the other. I'm not even sure I care which way it goes, but the system now is broke and breeds nothing but a ripe environment for corruption and competitive disadvantage. When everyone isn't playing by the same rules what's the point?

I agree with a lot of this. As an absolute best case scenario, it would be best for actual amateurism to happen. The problem with saying "you can go pro whenever you want" is that's not up to the NCAA or the schools. That's up to the leagues. The NFL in particular gets all the benefits of a developmental league without any of the expense. Not that the colleges are complaining about getting the best football players for at least three years.

But I will disagree to an extent with the idea that there is a competitive disadvantage. There is between the major schools in the big 5 and the mid-majors. But the big 5 are all in the same boat, and that looks like it might get codified if the NCAA goes thru with this new governance model that's been proposed. At the moment, the NCAA appears to be treating every major school with the same kid gloves.

 

[rjd970]

I agree with a lot of this. As an absolute best case scenario, it would be best for actual amateurism to happen. The problem with saying "you can go pro whenever you want" is that's not up to the NCAA or the schools. That's up to the leagues. The NFL in particular gets all the benefits of a developmental league without any of the expense. Not that the colleges are complaining about getting the best football players for at least three years.

But I will disagree to an extent with the idea that there is a competitive disadvantage. There is between the major schools in the big 5 and the mid-majors. But the big 5 are all in the same boat, and that looks like it might get codified if the NCAA goes thru with this new governance model that's been proposed. At the moment, the NCAA appears to be treating every major school with the same kid gloves.

The going pro comment would obviously need NFL buy in, that was assumed. We can disagree on the competitive disadvantage, but when special BCS considerations for Notre dame were in place and a school like Boise st can almost go undefeated for 4 years and not play for the title, there is a disadvantage created because of the market considerations of each school following. Take the business side out of it and some of these smaller schools would have had at least a better opportunity to play for the title. The very need for a BCS instead of playoffs had a revenue component to it.

Treat it like a business or not. This in between nonsense is ridiculous.

 

[bamawriter]

The going pro comment would obviously need NFL buy in, that was assumed. We can disagree on the competitive disadvantage, but when special BCS considerations for Notre dame were in place and a school like Boise st can almost go undefeated for 4 years and not play for the title, there is a disadvantage created because of the market considerations of each school following. Take the business side out of it and some of these smaller schools would have had at least a better opportunity to play for the title. The very need for a BCS instead of playoffs had a revenue component to it.

Treat it like a business or not. This in between nonsense is ridiculous.

Of all the factors that go into major college athletics, the only one that isn't treated like a business is the athlete. And it's been like that since at least the early 80s when TV deals were deregulated, if not earlier. It would take a much more significant sea change to bring about legit amateurism than it would be to simply acknowledge the truth.

And I'm with you when it comes to the smaller schools competing with the big boys. But that appears to be heading the way of the buffalo.

 

[rjd970]

Of all the factors that go into major college athletics, the only one that isn't treated like a business is the athlete. And it's been like that since at least the early 80s when TV deals were deregulated, if not earlier. It would take a much more significant sea change to bring about legit amateurism than it would be to simply acknowledge the truth.

And I'm with you when it comes to the smaller schools competing with the big boys. But that appears to be heading the way of the buffalo.

I've always said if this is going to be a business, let's call it what it is and pay these kids.

I agree that it has reached critical mass and going complete amateur may not be possible at this point, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be amateur.

 

[bamawriter]

I've always said if this is going to be a business, let's call it what it is and pay these kids.

I agree that it has reached critical mass and going complete amateur may not be possible at this point, but if I had to choose one or the other, it would be amateur.

I couldn't agree more. I think it's indefensible to run it the way that it's being run at present.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what is the qualifier here? Should this be the same case for the women's swimming team? Is it the amount of money being made? Is so, what is the amount where the labor laws apply?

I actually agree with a lot of what you wrote. The devil is in the details, but I would say the details can be worked out separately by each school, sport, player and situation, by and through their State. It's too much to handle and may not even be possible on a larger scale.

What has lead to this "problem" to me, is the schools attempting to "collectively" solve their problems, their problem is protecting their revenue stream. Which in turn has basically lead to a system which is immoral, unethical and illegal in my eyes.

The problems seem huge but they can be sorted out by using the processes that are already in place.

1. I don't think colleges have to necessarily pay players. It depends.
2. They might have to majorly adjust their programs though.
3. Some might elect to go in a different direction, say treat it like a normal school function instead of big business.
4. I feel like the schools have created the problem as they are trying to protect their revenue stream, hence, they have the solution.
5. The sooner they get in front of this the better.
6. I fail to see why Henry can't receive a car, a yacht, or cash money from a third party, I fail to see why that is anyone's business as long as its not from an illegal source.

Just my take. The sooner the schools get ahead of this the better, the NCAA is no help, matter of fact they threw the schools right under the bus by saying the players were being "compensated".

Changes are coming, not much anyone is going to do to stop it.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Jameis to Derrick Henry "if u gone ride skrong u got to be skrong and the Dodge Challenger is skrong as long as Tide Pride pay skrong

lol:

 

[bamawriter]

I actually agree with a lot of what you wrote. The devil is in the details, but I would say the details can be worked out separately by each school, sport, player and situation, by and through their State. It's too much to handle and may not even be possible on a larger scale.

I agree with pretty much everything in your post, except I fear that government intervention is going to be sticky. The sports cannot be treated differently because of Title IX. In a purely business model where everyone was treated as an employee, it's justifiable to pay the football and basketball players more than the volleyball team. But Title IX says that's a no-no. So if the government says that athletes are employees, Title IX says they all have to be compensated the same, and we're still going to wind up with crazy inequity between the schools and the players.

 

[Vol4life25]

No one is saying Henry is wrong, we're saying the school is wrong for allowing it.

I'd take a new car too, who wouldn't?

So what if one school has a big booster, that will buy every star on that team a new car and one school doesn't. Both school's play each other every year. Do you not see the competitive disadvantage?

 

[bamawriter]

No one is saying Henry is wrong, we're saying the school is wrong for allowing it.

I'd take a new car too, who wouldn't?

So what if one school has a big booster, that will buy every star on that team a new car and one school doesn't. Both school's play each other every year. Do you not see the competitive disadvantage?

Such disparities do not actually exist between the major schools. If they did, School A would never, ever lose a recruiting battle to School B.

 

[sanddune50]

Its completely normal in that it's done here and everywhere else where football is taken seriously.

Cool story, got proof? Only proof I see is a Bama player standing next to a $30k plus car.

And not a thing will be done seeing as though Mark Emmert is the NCAA president and Saban coached under him when they were at LSU. Different rules for different schools.

 

[sanddune50]

The new car issue is the single most played out "violation" possible.

If the NCAA wanted to crack down on players getting wheels, every major program in America would be shut down. ESPN would be showing SWAC, SoCon, and Ivy League games all Fall.

Rationalize much. Different set of rules means only reason for Bama's recent success. Same goes for Auburn. Guess the NCAA feel sorry for anyone that resides in that 3rd world country.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Cool story, got proof? Only proof I see is a Bama player standing next to a $30k plus car.

And not a thing will be done seeing as though Mark Emmert is the NCAA president and Saban coached under him when they were at LSU. Different rules for different schools.

Totally agree with everything you said. I have asked for proof of the "every school that takes football seriously cheats" argument yet I have not seen any.

Bamawriter will not acknowledge the Saban/Emmert Alabama favoritism. He just wants to kick it under the rug like it doesn't even matter.

 

[bamawriter]

Totally agree with everything you said. I have asked for proof of the "every school that takes football seriously cheats" argument yet I have not seen any.

Bamawriter will not acknowledge the Saban/Emmert Alabama favoritism. He just wants to kick it under the rug like it doesn't even matter.

UT is on probation for cheating. There is your proof that UT cheats.

And now you can proceed with your inevitable explanation for how it's not as bad was what Alabama does.

 

[Vol_Maul]

Cool story, got proof? Only proof I see is a Bama player standing next to a $30k plus car.

And not a thing will be done seeing as though Mark Emmert is the NCAA president and Saban coached under him when they were at LSU. Different rules for different schools.

And where is the proof that anyone even remotely associated with the school bought it? That doesn't look like a bad neighborhood he is from. Why does everybody assume that every football player comes from such abject poverty that his family can't afford a car? I wouldn't doubt that the payment triples when the guy is draft eligible, but that is another thing... This board only cares because most UT fans on this board think that the only reason Alabama is good is because they cheat. They spent a truckload of cash on a coach. That is why they win. Give up on this pipe dream that Saban is going to **** up something this mundane and blow up his entire career. UT will be back soon. Focus on that.

 

[LSU-SIU]

So if the government says that athletes are employees, Title IX says they all have to be compensated the same, and we're still going to wind up with crazy inequity between the schools and the players.

I actually 100% agree with you, but at the end of the day I am not sure it matters.

I think the best way for the schools to approach this is not whether their program will be equal but whether they are doing the right thing, and determine what they want their programs to be. If they want to run a big business, then they should have all the oversight big business has, if they want a simple football program I think they can have that as well.

The one thing they need to get out their system, is that they think they can regulate what a scholarship player or even a walk-on can make from a 3rd party. Generally, this is none of their business, absent some extraordinary situation.

Their problems are not really difficult, if they are not trying to protect a revenue stream.... but you and I know the truth. I think it's their choice, but pretty soon the piper is going to have to be paid, whether they acknowledge right now or not.

I still think the solutions can be simple, but on the surface they might not appear that way.... but if the schools want to continue down the big business path I think their are some major problems coming their way without significant changes.

You have to remember I actually thought the players were going to lose the labor union dispute, the NCAA then threw the schools under the bus, the schools still haven't figured it out yet.... others have.

I think we appear to be at least speaking on realistic possibilities as to what the future holds or might become... I appreciate that and welcome input.

And everyone talking about Henry's car... Haha, I have said it before you should have seen the cars some LSU BB players were driving around 88-90. And I saw it with my own eyes.

 

[golfballs]

I'm sure plenty of places would give him a loan

 

[vols_fan_68]

I'm sure plenty of places would give him a loan

And the booster(s( pays the payment

 

[LibertyVol]

UT is on probation for cheating. There is your proof that UT cheats.

And now you can proceed with your inevitable explanation for how it's not as bad was what Alabama does.

This is one of my favorites. This is not me saying it. This is not a Tennessee fan saying it, nor an Auburn fan. This the NCAA saying it.

The NCAA praised Alabama for its thorough internal investigation and yet stung the school in its report, calling it a "serial repeat offender," saying its infractions track record was "abysmal" and suggesting that its "appalling and unprecedented" infractions history was "unmatched by any other member institution in the NCAA."

 

[ajvol01]

This is one of my favorites. This is not me saying it. This is not a Tennessee fan saying it, nor an Auburn fan. This the NCAA saying it.

The NCAA praised Alabama for its thorough internal investigation and yet stung the school in its report, calling it a "serial repeat offender," saying its infractions track record was "abysmal" and suggesting that its "appalling and unprecedented" infractions history was "unmatched by any other member institution in the NCAA."

The ends justify the means for the bammers ...just as long as they're winning

 

[bamawriter]

This is one of my favorites. This is not me saying it. This is not a Tennessee fan saying it, nor an Auburn fan. This the NCAA saying it.

The NCAA praised Alabama for its thorough internal investigation and yet stung the school in its report, calling it a "serial repeat offender," saying its infractions track record was "abysmal" and suggesting that its "appalling and unprecedented" infractions history was "unmatched by any other member institution in the NCAA."

Great. Link to where I said Alabama isn't cheating, or even where I said that Alabama isn't doing it to a greater degree than any other team?

 

[bamawriter]

The ends justify the means for the bammers ...just as long as they're winning

With today's NCAA? Absolutely.