Did Tee Martin influence Adoree Jackson to take us out of the picture?

[JonGrudensAgent]

A) he had a chance for UT to pay his bills.. he didn't want it... and what was the reason? Money? something we can all agree would have been a good reason? in order to do better for his family? NAY.. he was offered more then he was making at USC.
But no, it was because he didn't feel like his arse was kissed enough when he came f:birgits_giggler the interview.

So dont give me that load a crap..

B) Making off-handed comments about a high school kid. WHEN YOU KNOW MEDIA IS EVERYWHERE AROUND YOU, has nothing to do with who pays his bills. it has to do with being a spiteful buttmunch.

C) Negative recruiting is not something you are forced to do to make it in college football. It is something you do to IN-CONFERENCE rivals.. so that even if the kid in front of you does not choose you, they also do not choose your rival, so you are not forced to play against them every year. USC and UT never play, so there is no reason what so ever to negative recruit UT if your at USC. Yet we know he does it, and its purely out of spite.

D) you guys can call me names all you want.. make little *****arse comments about common sense all you want. Will not change the fact that all because Tee feels slighted that Manning gets more attention from UT fans when Tee won a NC and Manning did not. And because when he was coming for an interview we did not back up a brinks truck to his house, and throw him a parade.

He now has a vendetta against UT and takes every opportunity he can to hurt us and make us look bad.

you guys defending him say other people have no common sense? :lolabove:

get some of your own and look at his actions and his words. When it looks/smells/walks/sounds like a duck... then its a duck.

If Martin has a "vendetta" against UT, it's probably over diatribes like this from fans such as yourself.

 

[ImportedVoL]

Thoughts?

Neyland would have wept at the sheer stupidity of this post.

why is it stupid? do you have any points to discuss how he is wrong in his assumption? Any facts, or qoutes out there from Martin talking about how he loves UT? Is grateful for the education? for the chance to play the greatest game ever made at the greatest school to play it?

I really love how everyone who does not like Tee is making posts that would make Neyland cry, when they have reasons they list as to why they feel that way. Quotes and actions committed by Tee that makes them think he does not like UT any longer?

Then we have the people defending him. Who offer no proof, no quotes, no actions.. nothing to back up their view.

So what do they do? They use the time tested and approved verbal assault method. Call people names, make fun of there posts. Use our revered heroes when they can have no way of knowing what said people would think about ANY situation. As they have not even met said people a single time, let alone get to know them well enough to have any idea what they might think about said situation.

Why not right? If you have nothing to use in an actual conversation, lets just berate the people that do until they are to aggravated or scared to post.

 

[roosterjbh]

why is it stupid? do you have any points to discuss how he is wrong in his assumption? Any facts, or qoutes out there from Martin talking about how he loves UT? Is grateful for the education? for the chance to play the greatest game ever made at the greatest school to play it?

I really love how everyone who does not like Tee is making posts that would make Neyland cry, when they have reasons they list as to why they feel that way. Quotes and actions committed by Tee that makes them think he does not like UT any longer?

Then we have the people defending him. Who offer no proof, no quotes, no actions.. nothing to back up their view.

So what do they do? They use the time tested and approved verbal assault method. Call people names, make fun of there posts. Use our revered heroes when they can have no way of knowing what said people would think about ANY situation. As they have not even met said people a single time, let alone get to know them well enough to have any idea what they might think about said situation.

Why not right? If you have nothing to use in an actual conversation, lets just berate the people that do until they are to aggravated or scared to post.

From Tee-

"I was very honored to be offered a position on Coach Jones' Tennessee staff," Martin said in a statement released by the school. "I truly believe he will do an outstanding job with the Vols program. My decision to remain at USC was the toughest I have ever had to make because Tennessee is such a special place to me.

"At the end of the day, I am a man of my word. I promised Coach Kiffin when I was hired at USC that I had goals I wanted to accomplish here. We still have work to do here to reach those goals. I see a great future at USC with the players on our roster and the recruits we have coming in.

"I have so much love and respect for Tennessee. But at this time, the right decision was to continue at USC and I am looking forward to doing that."

-Evan Woodberry GoVolsXra

My opinion on the Jalen Hurd thing was that he was saying something in what he thought was private to his fellow coaches. It was no slander to the Tennessee football program or university, he was giving an opinion of a recruit. I'm sure Butch Jones has said some very negative things about other recruits, but it doesnt mean it is aimed toward the university of said recruit. Tee unfortunately got caught by a hot mic. Tee has done more for TN than anyone on this board and has made decisions for his family and on his word. Why people are so adamant about hating on him I do not understand.

 

[BowlBrother85]

From Tee-

"I was very honored to be offered a position on Coach Jones' Tennessee staff," Martin said in a statement released by the school. "I truly believe he will do an outstanding job with the Vols program. My decision to remain at USC was the toughest I have ever had to make because Tennessee is such a special place to me.

"At the end of the day, I am a man of my word. I promised Coach Kiffin when I was hired at USC that I had goals I wanted to accomplish here. We still have work to do here to reach those goals. I see a great future at USC with the players on our roster and the recruits we have coming in.

"I have so much love and respect for Tennessee. But at this time, the right decision was to continue at USC and I am looking forward to doing that."

-Evan Woodberry GoVolsXra

My opinion on the Jalen Hurd thing was that he was saying something in what he thought was private to his fellow coaches. It was no slander to the Tennessee football program or university, he was giving an opinion of a recruit. I'm sure Butch Jones has said some very negative things about other recruits, but it doesnt mean it is aimed toward the university of said recruit. Tee unfortunately got caught by a hot mic. Tee has done more for TN than anyone on this board and has made decisions for his family and on his word. Why people are so adamant about hating on him I do not understand.

Fair enough and maybe he deserves a pass for the Hurd comment but I still think he should have admitted to it when Jayson Swain called him about it.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

why is it stupid? do you have any points to discuss how he is wrong in his assumption? Any facts, or qoutes out there from Martin talking about how he loves UT? Is grateful for the education? for the chance to play the greatest game ever made at the greatest school to play it?

I really love how everyone who does not like Tee is making posts that would make Neyland cry, when they have reasons they list as to why they feel that way. Quotes and actions committed by Tee that makes them think he does not like UT any longer?

Then we have the people defending him. Who offer no proof, no quotes, no actions.. nothing to back up their view.

So what do they do? They use the time tested and approved verbal assault method. Call people names, make fun of there posts. Use our revered heroes when they can have no way of knowing what said people would think about ANY situation. As they have not even met said people a single time, let alone get to know them well enough to have any idea what they might think about said situation.

Why not right? If you have nothing to use in an actual conversation, lets just berate the people that do until they are to aggravated or scared to post.

I berate people when they make a stupid assumption that Martin should do anything other than throw UT under the bus if he is competing against the Vols for a player.

USC pays his bills now, not the Vols.

And Google is a very useful tool to find multiple occasions to see where he made gracious comments towards the Vols while declining Jones' offer.

But it's also convenient for people such as yourself to forget how he was passed over by Dooley and ended up in Kentucky in 2010 as well.

People seem all too quick to sweep aside Dooley alienating former players and it shouldn't be shocking if a few among them do harbor ill will towards their school for hiring a jackass like that in the first place.

Martin is not among those however and you'll not find a negative comment towards this program by him unless you want to count some off camera opinion regarding Hurd.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

From Tee-

"I was very honored to be offered a position on Coach Jones' Tennessee staff," Martin said in a statement released by the school. "I truly believe he will do an outstanding job with the Vols program. My decision to remain at USC was the toughest I have ever had to make because Tennessee is such a special place to me.

"At the end of the day, I am a man of my word. I promised Coach Kiffin when I was hired at USC that I had goals I wanted to accomplish here. We still have work to do here to reach those goals. I see a great future at USC with the players on our roster and the recruits we have coming in.

"I have so much love and respect for Tennessee. But at this time, the right decision was to continue at USC and I am looking forward to doing that."

-Evan Woodberry GoVolsXra

My opinion on the Jalen Hurd thing was that he was saying something in what he thought was private to his fellow coaches. It was no slander to the Tennessee football program or university, he was giving an opinion of a recruit. I'm sure Butch Jones has said some very negative things about other recruits, but it doesnt mean it is aimed toward the university of said recruit. Tee unfortunately got caught by a hot mic. Tee has done more for TN than anyone on this board and has made decisions for his family and on his word. Why people are so adamant about hating on him I do not understand.

Good points and thanks for pulling those quotes.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

From Tee-

"I was very honored to be offered a position on Coach Jones' Tennessee staff," Martin said in a statement released by the school. "I truly believe he will do an outstanding job with the Vols program. My decision to remain at USC was the toughest I have ever had to make because Tennessee is such a special place to me.

"At the end of the day, I am a man of my word. I promised Coach Kiffin when I was hired at USC that I had goals I wanted to accomplish here. We still have work to do here to reach those goals. I see a great future at USC with the players on our roster and the recruits we have coming in.

"I have so much love and respect for Tennessee. But at this time, the right decision was to continue at USC and I am looking forward to doing that."

-Evan Woodberry GoVolsXra

My opinion on the Jalen Hurd thing was that he was saying something in what he thought was private to his fellow coaches. It was no slander to the Tennessee football program or university, he was giving an opinion of a recruit. I'm sure Butch Jones has said some very negative things about other recruits, but it doesnt mean it is aimed toward the university of said recruit. Tee unfortunately got caught by a hot mic. Tee has done more for TN than anyone on this board and has made decisions for his family and on his word. Why people are so adamant about hating on him I do not understand.

Hot mics have caught, Bush jr., Putin, Obama, Alec Baldwin, news anchors, Speilberg, politicians of which it seems the Repubs get hit more consistently, and many others. But rooster, here's the thing, your common sense post notwithstanding, we have posters on VN who literally must, demand to, make it a policy to, have a mandate to, hate on specific targets. And repetitively, over extended periods of time expound and post that hate. They're Gorilla glued to it and nothing you say, and I strongly suspect, nothing even the deity they worship says can change it.

 

[ImportedVoL]

From Tee-

"I was very honored to be offered a position on Coach Jones' Tennessee staff," Martin said in a statement released by the school. "I truly believe he will do an outstanding job with the Vols program. My decision to remain at USC was the toughest I have ever had to make because Tennessee is such a special place to me.

"At the end of the day, I am a man of my word. I promised Coach Kiffin when I was hired at USC that I had goals I wanted to accomplish here. We still have work to do here to reach those goals. I see a great future at USC with the players on our roster and the recruits we have coming in.

"I have so much love and respect for Tennessee. But at this time, the right decision was to continue at USC and I am looking forward to doing that."

-Evan Woodberry GoVolsXra

My opinion on the Jalen Hurd thing was that he was saying something in what he thought was private to his fellow coaches. It was no slander to the Tennessee football program or university, he was giving an opinion of a recruit. I'm sure Butch Jones has said some very negative things about other recruits, but it doesnt mean it is aimed toward the university of said recruit. Tee unfortunately got caught by a hot mic. Tee has done more for TN than anyone on this board and has made decisions for his family and on his word. Why people are so adamant about hating on him I do not understand.

First... Great job on backing up your position with facts and quotes instead of just calling people absurd names over their opinions.
That is all I wanted. Intelligent debate backed up by actual facts instead of the childish name calling fest this place turns into all too often.

No one, on either side of the fence should be humiliated or intimidated because of an opinion they hold.

Even if you have the proof they are wrong in what they are saying. A simple quote will go a lot farther in changing their mind then any kind of intimidation technique

 

[ImportedVoL]

Hot mics have caught, Bush jr., Putin, Obama, Alec Baldwin, news anchors, Speilberg, politicians of which it seems the Repubs get hit more consistently, and many others. But rooster, here's the thing, your common sense post notwithstanding, we have posters on VN who literally must, demand to, make it a policy to, have a mandate to, hate on specific targets. And repetitively, over extended periods of time expound and post that hate. They're Gorilla glued to it and nothing you say, and I strongly suspect, nothing even the deity they worship says can change it.

While I agree to a point, Hot mics when someone is not trying to be politically correct, or forced due to Public relations to say things they do not mean. Are what tell you what someone is really like, and the opinions they truly hold.

I still hold the position that what he said about Hurd, even in private company shows his true demeanor and outlook towards our school. He is bitter.. probably rightfully so due to Dooley and a few other select people.

But he should also recognize that those few people who are now gone, are not UT as a whole. And keep his disdain aimed towards those people, instead of a high-school kid who worked extremely hard to get to where he is.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

While I agree to a point, Hot mics when someone is not trying to be politically correct, or forced due to Public relations to say things they do not mean. Are what tell you what someone is really like, and the opinions they truly hold.

I still hold the position that what he said about Hurd, even in private company shows his true demeanor and outlook towards our school. He is bitter.. probably rightfully so due to Dooley and a few other select people.

But he should also recognize that those few people who are now gone, are not UT as a whole. And keep his disdain aimed towards those people, instead of a high-school kid who worked extremely hard to get to where he is.

OK. We can just agree to disagree. After all, we are Vols fans at the end of the day, eh? So until next time:

 

[ImportedVoL]

I berate people when they make a stupid assumption that Martin should do anything other than throw UT under the bus if he is competing against the Vols for a player.

USC pays his bills now, not the Vols.

And Google is a very useful tool to find multiple occasions to see where he made gracious comments towards the Vols while declining Jones' offer.

But it's also convenient for people such as yourself to forget how he was passed over by Dooley and ended up in Kentucky in 2010 as well.

People seem all too quick to sweep aside Dooley alienating former players and it shouldn't be shocking if a few among them do harbor ill will towards their school for hiring a jackass like that in the first place.

Martin is not among those however and you'll not find a negative comment towards this program by him unless you want to count some off camera opinion regarding Hurd.

Berating anyone over an opinion they hold is childish and moronic, no one deserves to be treated like that. And even if they did, it would not be your place to do it.

Forums are for intelligent debate, but sadly the internet has turned into a troll fest, where many people feel like this type of behavior is warranted and accepted.

arguing a point is easy if you use facts to back up your claims..

a fellow poster here did it just a few posts ago.. that is how a proper response should have been handled. Quotes showing Tee in a much better light then his comments about a highschool player he will never have to play against and therefor should be a non-issue for him. Instead he goes out of his way to make a hurtful comment towards..

When his true anger should be directed at people like Dooley and probably Hamilton.

And as far as google, it is no ones job but your to back up your argument with proof, other people can not be burdened with searching the internet to see if you are right.

But as a rebuttal I submit that what someone says on camera in order to appease PR people is not what they truly want to say.. where tidbits caught when they think no one is listening shows what that person truly thinks.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Berating anyone over an opinion they hold is childish and moronic, no one deserves to be treated like that. And even if they did, it would not be your place to do it.

Forums are for intelligent debate, but sadly the internet has turned into a troll fest, where many people feel like this type of behavior is warranted and accepted.

arguing a point is easy if you use facts to back up your claims..

a fellow poster here did it just a few posts ago.. that is how a proper response should have been handled. Quotes showing Tee in a much better light then his comments about a highschool player he will never have to play against and therefor should be a non-issue for him. Instead he goes out of his way to make a hurtful comment towards..

When his true anger should be directed at people like Dooley and probably Hamilton.

And as far as google, it is no ones job but your to back up your argument with proof, other people can not be burdened with searching the internet to see if you are right.

But as a rebuttal I submit that what someone says on camera in order to appease PR people is not what they truly want to say.. where tidbits caught when they think no one is listening shows what that person truly thinks.

And yet Import, you engage in the same thing. I'm not upset because it's common for people to not practice what they preach, basically insist others adhere to standards they don't hold themselves to. Common yes, not right, but you know how humans are. Quark's description of us while coming from a fictional character is dead on.

Further, VN is comprised of many personalities. Some have irked me to the point I put them of IGNORE and left them there, even tried to do that with a moderator once. Didn't know he was a mod until I tried it. In my case, I'm a person who doesn't really take most things in life seriously, I mean man, life is terminal. I have a silly bent because I find a lot of things funny or fun to make fun of, I like to laugh. I'm well-aware my brand of humor doesn't appeal to everybody. But learned long ago to not try to please everybody because it just isn't fun on account it takes the fun out of fun.

Even when exchanging barbs, to me it's just fun. On the other hand, we got some serious bigots here too. Folks who're just mean for meanness sake or worse. But for me, even when they peeve me, my underlying view is as follows:

VN is a soup. Ingredients of soup depends on what kind of soup it is. While most wouldn't find eating an onion solo a tasty treat, we love it in the soup. Almost none of us would lick powdered curry, black pepper, or cumin, we will put it in soups. Folks don't even like chewing vanilla beans or dried nutmeg but go ga ga over it in ice cream. You see, it's the mixture of ingredients that works the magic. And that's why humans like stuff they wouldn't like otherwise. VN is that way, it's a soup, for some, it's even an ice cream. But only because of that mix of ingredients. Now, others may have digestive issues so double over in pain (actually anger) and groan the way you are now.

Finally, regarding your intelligent discussion, humans try it, and try it, and try it. But they never maintain it. Proof? United Nations debates, especially when matters conflict with the desires or demands of certain parties. NATO, they never really agree on courses of action and usually end up not fulfilling their mandates. Russia knows this. Congress, man, do I really need to say more? So ImportVol, I say this, WELCOME TO HUMAN RACE.

 

[RockyTop411]

Hey guys, #1 player in Tennessee is announcing today between Tennessee, Ohio St, Auburn, Alabama, and northwestern. Jauan Jennings dt qb and safety from Murfreesboro. Would be a big get from middle Tennessee. 10:15 ET.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

And yet Import, you engage in the same thing. I'm not upset because it's common for people to not practice what they preach, basically insist others adhere to standards they don't hold themselves to. Common yes, not right, but you know how humans are. Quark's description of us while coming from a fictional character is dead on.

Further, VN is comprised of many personalities. Some have irked me to the point I put them of IGNORE and left them there, even tried to do that with a moderator once. In my case, I'm a person who doesn't really take most things in life seriously, I mean man, life is terminal. I have a silly bent because I find a lot of things funny or fun to make fun of, I like to laugh. I'm well-aware my brand of humor doesn't appeal to everybody. But learned long ago to not try to please everybody because it just isn't fun on account it takes the fun out of fun.

Even when exchanging barbs, to me it's just fun. On the other hand, we got some serious bigots here too. Folks who're just mean for meanness sake or worse. But for me, even when they peeve me, my underlying view is as follows:

VN is a soup. Ingredients of soup depends on what kind of soup it is. While most wouldn't find eating an onion solo a tasty treat, we love it in the soup. Almost none of us would lick powdered curry, black pepper, or cumin, we will put it in soups. Folks don't even like chewing vanilla beans or dried nutmeg but go ga ga over it in ice cream. You see, it's the mixture of ingredients that works the magic. And that's why humans like stuff they wouldn't like otherwise. VN is that way, it's a soup, for some, it's even an ice cream. But only because of that mix of ingredients. Now, others may have digestive issue so double over in pain (actually anger) and groan the way you are now.

Finally, regarding your intelligent discussion, humans try it, and try it, and try it. But they never maintain it. Proof? United Nations debates, especially when matters conflict with the desires or demands of certain parties. NATO, they never really agree on courses of action and usually end up not fulfilling their mandates. Russia knows this. Congress, man, do I really need to say more? So ImportVol, I say this, WELCOME TO HUMAN RACE.

I would have just called him a hypocrite and been done with it but this works as well.

It's a message board. We aren't turning keys to launch a first strike here.

Not everyone on here is going to play Kumbaya and get along in conformity to Imported Vols high double standards and I have no intentions of trying.

I'll voice my opinion as I see fit within reasonable bounds and when someone puts a post up about a former Vol actually recruiting for his current program instead of the Vols, I will call it as is.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I would have just called him a hypocrite and been done with it but this works as well.

It's a message board. We aren't turning keys to launch a first strike here.

Not everyone on here is going to play Kumbaya and get along in conformity to Imported Vols high double standards and I have no intentions of trying.

I'll voice my opinion as I see fit within reasonable bounds and when someone puts a post up about a former Vol actually recruiting for his current program instead of the Vols, I will call it as is.

Hear you loud and clear. I was trying to be nice, which I'm kind of bad at sometimes. He did post for me a non-attacking post so I thought it might be a good start. We'll see.

 

[BearCat204]

Tee Martin is NOT a VFL..

He has proved that many times over the past 4-5 years. .

Personally I have him wrote off..people can try to defend him all they want, it will not change anything.

And the UT does not pay his bills argument does not hold water..

UT does not pay Manning's bills... UT does not pay Berry's bills

They still represent the university with class, and will do anything they can to help us succeed. While Martin would like nothing else then to see us fail, all because he didn't have a limo waiting for him at the airport along with other nonsense.

Not a bit of this tirade makes a lick of sense. Where you the head of the committee that voted on the VFLness of Tee?

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

This thread is silly. Of course he influenced Adoree not to come here - that's kind of his job. Jesus.

 

[TVA]

It may be possible to have a good team without Adoree.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Hear you loud and clear. I was trying to be nice, which I'm kind of bad at sometimes. He did post for me a non-attacking post so I thought it might be a good start. We'll see.

Subtleties aren't a strong point with me, especially on a message board this expansive .

You, sir,have a far more deft touch with the keyboard and internet relations as they relate to message board etiquette than myself.

I find myself having little patience for the Vollyannas of Vol Nation lately but will work on it.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Subtleties aren't a strong point with me, especially on a message board this expansive .

You, sir,have a far more deft touch with the keyboard and internet relations as they relate to message board etiquette than myself.

I find myself having little patience for the Vollyannas of Vol Nation lately but will work on it.

Don't sweat it. Besides, I'm in no position to presume to teach anyone else board etiquette. I'm probably one of the worst on VN when it comes to swinging a verbal baseball bat. But I understand you fully about being fed up with what you call Vollyannas and which I give worse labels to. I'd say to you, keep on trucking. If either of us or anyone get really out of hand, I harbor no doubts Freak will make that clearer than crystal clear. Like I said, we can try to be civil 100% of the time, it just won't work because human nature defies such efforts. Even full blooded Vulcans don't consistently follow the logic only approach. Even if they could, incidents of improbability would force them to commit breaches resulting in periodic illogical actions and decisions. Wishes and reality rarely shake hands, Robert's Rules of Order notwithstanding. Shucks man, even Abraham and Moses had spats with the Celestial Beings they dared to question regarding the wisdom of their decisions.

 

[sjt18]

This thread is silly. Of course he influenced Adoree not to come here - that's kind of his job. Jesus.

Correct.

Cut went to Bama, right? So if he had not aggressively done all he could to win recruiting battles with Bama while coaching at UT... what would have been the response from the fans condemning Martin? IIRC, Richt was an FSU grad... if so, should he cut them slack when recruiting against them?

Martin is doing his job if he's recruiting hard when he goes up against UT.

It will be next to impossible for a UT player that goes into coaching at the BCS level to be a "VFL" in the way many here understand it.

 

[champyvol]

Rivals has Adoree recruited by Tee Martin.

I would have NEVER thought Tee capable of purposefully throwing his alma mater under the bus, but my opinion on Tee greatly changed when he was hating on Jalen Hurd on NSD.

Any thoughts?

tee is garbage, I wouldn't walk across the street to shake his hand. far as I'm concerned he was never a vol.

 

[gule]

Tee who?

 

[gnm53108]

tee is garbage, I wouldn't walk across the street to shake his hand. far as I'm concerned he was never a vol.

Tee Martin Dr disagrees.

 

[ImportedVoL]

And yet Import, you engage in the same thing. I'm not upset because it's common for people to not practice what they preach, basically insist others adhere to standards they don't hold themselves to. Common yes, not right, but you know how humans are. Quark's description of us while coming from a fictional character is dead on.

Further, VN is comprised of many personalities. Some have irked me to the point I put them of IGNORE and left them there, even tried to do that with a moderator once. Didn't know he was a mod until I tried it. In my case, I'm a person who doesn't really take most things in life seriously, I mean man, life is terminal. I have a silly bent because I find a lot of things funny or fun to make fun of, I like to laugh. I'm well-aware my brand of humor doesn't appeal to everybody. But learned long ago to not try to please everybody because it just isn't fun on account it takes the fun out of fun.

Even when exchanging barbs, to me it's just fun. On the other hand, we got some serious bigots here too. Folks who're just mean for meanness sake or worse. But for me, even when they peeve me, my underlying view is as follows:

VN is a soup. Ingredients of soup depends on what kind of soup it is. While most wouldn't find eating an onion solo a tasty treat, we love it in the soup. Almost none of us would lick powdered curry, black pepper, or cumin, we will put it in soups. Folks don't even like chewing vanilla beans or dried nutmeg but go ga ga over it in ice cream. You see, it's the mixture of ingredients that works the magic. And that's why humans like stuff they wouldn't like otherwise. VN is that way, it's a soup, for some, it's even an ice cream. But only because of that mix of ingredients. Now, others may have digestive issues so double over in pain (actually anger) and groan the way you are now.

Finally, regarding your intelligent discussion, humans try it, and try it, and try it. But they never maintain it. Proof? United Nations debates, especially when matters conflict with the desires or demands of certain parties. NATO, they never really agree on courses of action and usually end up not fulfilling their mandates. Russia knows this. Congress, man, do I really need to say more? So ImportVol, I say this, WELCOME TO HUMAN RACE.

I have regrettably been guilty in the past of the same thing. But I realized what I was doing and made a decision to change. This place all to often just turns into a name calling fest, instead of a place to go and discuss the vols in an open setting.. no one should be scared to post how they feel or think on these boards.

But all to often after I make a post on a subject, I get responses from other posters like: I feel the same way but would never dream of posting it because of the attacks I would be subject to by other people here. I find it extremely sad that is the case. No one should be intimidated into not talking, in the very place that is meant to discuss such things.

It is very easy to get caught up in the junk around here, and respond in kind when attacked by people who would rather call you a mean name and tell you how stupid you are. Then actually back up their position with anything meaningful.