Different camera angle on Pig Fumble. MUST SEE!

#351
#351
UT_Tix79 said:
He lost control when his right hand comes off the ball, you can tell it wasn't him switching to his left hand because the force of his right hand slipping moved his hand almost all the way to his left elbow.

It was a fumble, it was clear as day, your arm does not move that way if you're switching the ball purposely. After his hand slips off, the ball control is lost, and what you're seeing is him trying to regain possession. Even when he hits the ground, the first hing he does is try to get up and find the ball, but it's already out of bounds.

He fumbled, he knew he fumbled, it's not debatable to anyone who knows anything about sports. Once his right hand comes off, you even see the trajectory of the ball change. That = loss of control
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See, that where I think most believe he lost control of the ball, when his right hand comes off of it. I don't agree, it looks to me like he lets go of it with his right hand on purpose, reaching with the ball still in his left hand. It clearly came out, but I still believe it broke the plane before it did.
 
#352
#352
Bryan1 said:
See, that where I think most believe he lost control of the ball, when his right hand comes off of it. I don't agree, it looks to me like he lets go of it with his right hand on purpose, reaching with the ball still in his left hand. It clearly came out, but I still believe it broke the plane before it did.
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Physics don't work that way, his right hand wouldn't travel almost to his left elbow, it would move away from the ball. What you're seeing is his force on the ball being reapplied against the air. Watch his arm, watch it slowly, watch his reaction, and watch him look for the ball as soon as he lands.
 
#353
#353
Take a football and squeeze it with both hands, then let go with your right hand and watch what your arm does.

Now, squeeze it with both hands, and while exerting the same amount of force, let your right hand slip free, watch where it ends up.
 
#354
#354
UT_Tix79 said:
Physics don't work that way, his right hand wouldn't travel almost to his left elbow, it would move away from the ball. What you're seeing is his force on the ball being reapplied against the air. Watch his arm, watch it slowly, watch his reaction, and watch him look for the ball as soon as he lands.
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Uh no, he simply switches hands. He turns the ball's trailing point toward his left hand to take control with his left hand.
 
#355
#355
Gonna have to disagree with ya on that too. He lets go of the ball with his right hand and appears to bend his arm in a normal motion in front of himself. I don't think it slipped out of his right hand, he let go of it to reach with the left.
 
#359
#359
NMVol said:
Uh no, he simply switches hands. He turns the ball's trailing point toward his left hand to take control with his left hand.
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Ok, you're right, and me, Pig, and CBJ are all wrong when Pig states it just slipped out of his hands, and CBJ states the ball just slipped out of his hands, and the physics of his motions coincide with that.

You're going with he intentionally was switching the ball to his non dominant hand, and the one he never carries the ball in, to try to score a TD..

If anything he would have switched it to his right hand since its closer to the sidelines, and away from the defense.
 
#360
#360
UT_Tix79 said:
Ok, you're right, and me, Pig, and CBJ are all wrong when Pig states it just slipped out of his hands, and CBJ states the ball just slipped out of his hands, and the physics of his motions coincide with that.

You're going with he intentionally was switching the ball to his non dominant hand, and the one he never carries the ball in, to try to score a TD..

If anything he would have switched it to his right hand since its closer to the sidelines, and away from the defense.
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I've watched it over and over. Doesn't matter if it slipped out of his right hand or whatever, he still had it in his left hand.
 
#361
#361
UT_Tix79 said:
Ok, you're right, and me, Pig, and CBJ are all wrong when Pig states it just slipped out of his hands, and CBJ states the ball just slipped out of his hands, and the physics of his motions coincide with that.

You're going with he intentionally was switching the ball to his non dominant hand, and the one he never carries the ball in, to try to score a TD..

If anything he would have switched it to his right hand since its closer to the sidelines, and away from the defense.
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There are two motions, one where he changes the ball from his right hand to his left hand and then drops his right elbow and then one when the ball slips out of his hand when his left arm is extended. Pig's comment, which I am taking at face value from your reference, is not inconsistent with this.

I don't blame CBJ for not lingering over it. I have been merely trying to piece together what happened. The point about the dominant hand is an interesting point.

Edit: Pig may be left handed, some of us are.
 
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#362
#362
Bryan1 said:
I've watched it over and over. Doesn't matter if it slipped out of his right hand or whatever, he still had it in his left hand.
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Then why would Pig, CBJ, and every relevant person who has watched it agree it was a fumble.... Let it go man, you're wrong
 
#363
#363
UT_Tix79 said:
Then why would Pig, CBJ, and every relevant person who has watched it agree it was a fumble.... Let it go man, you're wrong
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CBJ and Pig, know they have to let it go and move on because the know they cant change the outcome. Still doesn't make me believe any different than the call on the field should have been upheld.
 
#364
#364
Bryan, you are correct. Unfortunately, too many have invested themselves in their knee-jerk reactions. They cannot make any case that Pig was not in possession with his left hand at the plane, but they will refuse to admit they were duped by their surface impressions which proved to be wrong.

The back-end video makes it crystal clear that Pig switched hands and controlled the ball in his left hand to the plane. In combination with the side video, showing no separation until after the plane is reached, the evidence says Touchdown.
 
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#365
#365
I understand the loyalty. We all want it to be a touchdown. It's been all over the radio, it's been on espn several times, it's been on fox sports, CBJ has talked about it,

Everyone that has seen it agrees it was a fumble, except a few of our fans. If it was really not a fumble, people would be all over the place, banging pans, and burning mattresses. But we can't do that, because its clear to everyone it was a fumble.

I've played football, I was a RB, a WR, and a punt returner/kick returner for several years in high school and college. When you lose contact with the football woth one handnwhile diving, it is pretty much impossible to hold onto the ball with the other. Had he started the dive with just one hand he would have probably held it; however, once his right hand lost contact the force from his left hand pushed the ball away, this is when we notice the trajectory change.

It was 100% a fumble, a tragic, terrible ending for such hard work, but sometimes crappy things happen.
 
#366
#366
Pig said "my hand slipped off the ball, and then I just lost it"

He didn't say I was trying to switch hands and stretch for the goal line
 
#367
#367
UT_Tix79 said:
Let it go man, you're wrong
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Why do you claim he is wrong, when you have absolutely no evidence that the ball was not in Pig's control at the plane.

Why should anybody be impressed by your posturing when you can't provide any evidence whatsoever to justify your claim that Pig lost possession before the goal?

We have two clear videos now showing a ball in possession of left hand and crossing the plane before it separated.

What is your evidence that Pig lost the ball before the plane? You have none! That's simply a fact. If you disagree, show me a video frame before the plane with separation?
 
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#368
#368
i really hate the fumble in the inzone, its a touchback rule. fumble anywhere else, and the team with last possession gets the ball. if it happens in the inzone they should rule it like they do an incomplete pass. oh well.
 
#369
#369
American Pig said:
Why do you claim he is wrong, when you have absolutely no evidence that the ball was not in Pig's control at the plane.

Why should anybody be impressed by your posturing when you can't provide any evidence whatsoever to justify your claim that Pig lost possession before the goal?

What is your evidence that Pig lost the ball before the plane? You have none! That's a fact.
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Well I honestly don't know what you were watching then. when he goes into the dive he clearly switches the ball from his right to left hand and reaches for the goal line with the ball in his left hand.
 
#370
#370
UT_Tix79 said:
I understand the loyalty. We all want it to be a touchdown. It's been all over the radio, it's been on espn several times, it's been on fox sports, CBJ has talked about it,

Everyone that has seen it agrees it was a fumble, except a few of our fans. If it was really not a fumble, people would be all over the place, banging pans, and burning mattresses. But we can't do that, because its clear to everyone it was a fumble.

I've played football, I was a RB, a WR, and a punt returner/kick returner for several years in high school and college. When you lose contact with the football woth one handnwhile diving, it is pretty much impossible to hold onto the ball with the other. Had he started the dive with just one hand he would have probably held it; however, once his right hand lost contact the force from his left hand pushed the ball away, this is when we notice the trajectory change.

It was 100% a fumble, a tragic, terrible ending for such hard work, but sometimes crappy things happen.
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Thing is the loss of control did not come when he switched hands. The video evidence shows no mishandling at that point. In fact it was a fluid motion where he positioned the ball in concert with the dive. It appears that he was approaching the sideline and switched hands to prevent the ball from going out of bounds in his right hand.

Your suggestion that the analysis is wishful thinking is wrong. It is what is. Including the fact that the call will never be overturned now and the game is in record books. However the evidence for a fumble prior to the ball crossing the line is scant. The motive of many Vol fans in looking at it closely is to know exactly what happened. Soundbite nation has no such interest.
 
#371
#371
Bryan1 said:
Well I honestly don't know what you were watching then. when he goes into the dive he clearly switches the ball from his right to left hand and reaches for the goal line with the ball in his left hand.
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That is exactly what happened. The back-side video shows this clearly and indisputably. Switched hands on purpose and controlled firmly to end zone plane. Not even a wobble. Then he dropped it at full extension - after the fact.
 
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#372
#372
NMVol said:
Thing is the loss of control did not come when he switched hands. The video evidence shows no mishandling at that point. In fact it was a fluid motion where he positioned the ball in concert with the dive. It appears that he was approaching the sideline and switched hands to prevent the ball from going out of bounds in his right hand.

Your suggestion that the analysis is wishful thinking is wrong. It is what is. Including the fact that the call will never be overturned now and the game is in record books. However the evidence for a fumble prior to the ball crossing the line is scant. The motive of many Vol fans in looking at it closely is to know exactly what happened. Soundbite nation has no such interest.
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Agree! There notion is that the ball slipped out of his right hand and he was trying to regain it with his left. I guess it just magically popped into his left hand ?
 
#373
#373
NMVol said:
Thing is the loss of control did not come when he switched hands. The video evidence shows no mishandling at that point. In fact it was a fluid motion where he positioned the ball in concert with the dive. It appears that he was approaching the sideline and switched hands to prevent the ball from going out of bounds in his right hand.

Your suggestion that the analysis is wishful thinking is wrong. It is what is. Including the fact that the call will never be overturned now and the game is in record books. However the evidence for a fumble prior to the ball crossing the line is scant. The motive of many Vol fans in looking at it closely is to know exactly what happened. Soundbite nation has no such interest.
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Right-on. Any notion that Pig lost control when his right hand let go is wishful thinking. He clearly and successfully switched hands and cleared the plane before letting go.

Don't be intimidated by those appealing to popular opinion and sound bites rather than the clear facts.
 
#374
#374
This must be the image with the elbow angle being referred to. This does not strike me as odd. One would extend one's elbow in passing hands. Again Pig appears to have a grip on the ball with his left hand. Without the rest of the things being examined including the videos this photo could easily be misinterpreted, but it is consistent with Pig switching hands, palming the trailing point, crossing the plane, then losing control.
9301177.jpeg
 
#375
#375
Yes, see there is a point when switching the ball from his right to left hand he is holding the ball parallel with the goal line. After the switch he has the ball by the point in his left hand, clearly shown in this pic.
 
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