Different camera angle on Pig Fumble. MUST SEE!

#451
#451
WriterVol said:
You're using a strawman here. I'm not saying UT was robbed of anything. I just wanted to examine the minutia of the case. We've more or less done that.
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I wasn't really talking about you. To your credit, you've more or less sounded like someone who accepts reality and is simply testing the waters rather than diving headlong into denial.
 
#453
#453
orangeslice13 said:
I'm with you.
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I think the few of "us" left are just trying to understand exactly what it takes to overturn a call. We're well aware it's not actually changing anything.

I mean, this isn't the first time I've watched a replay and said, "Oh, well it's probably a (insert play here), but there's not enough evidence in that video to overturn the call on the field." And then they overturn the call anyway. It seems they do inject some subjectivity in their replay calls. Or maybe I'm just too rigid in my idea of irrefutable. I can accept that.

Pass interference calls are even worse. Those things are all over the map with what gets called.
 
#454
#454
This will be my only post in this thread.

I was in a room full of people dressed in orange. There were beverages involved that should have brought out whatever bias we could muster. Every soul there absolutely, positively wanted that play to result in a TD. By the 2nd replay not one person in that profoundly Vol-biased group didn't think it wasn't a fumble. If not one of those people (myself included) could convince themselves it was a TD then I'm pretty dubious about what anyone else was seeing where they could.

If you want to talk about the Gaffney "catch" in 2000 that'd be different.

Go Vols.
 
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#458
#458
VolunteerTitan3 said:
The refs were gonna make sure we didn't spoil the dawgs national championship hopes regardless!
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:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:
One week we hear about the Dawgs being the most penalized team in the league and the next the refs are protecting the Dawgs national championship hopes .. whatever dude.
 
#459
#459
hndog609 said:
This will be my only post in this thread.

I was in a room full of people dressed in orange. There were beverages involved that should have brought out whatever bias we could muster. Every soul there absolutely, positively wanted that play to result in a TD. By the 2nd replay not one person in that profoundly Vol-biased group didn't think it wasn't a fumble. If not one of those people (myself included) could convince themselves it was a TD then I'm pretty dubious about what anyone else was seeing where they could.

If you want to talk about the Gaffney "catch" in 2000 that'd be different.

Go Vols.
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Obviously the commentators opining about it, had some bearing on viewers own opinions...and when I first saw it, it did "appear" that the ball came loose at about the 1yd line.

But after viewing it myself, from clips online (highlights available everywhere), and watching it closely, his taking his right hand off the ball was not an indication of loss of control. It initially appears that way. But after watching where his left hand is placed on the ball and the lack of movement of the ball from that hand....until after it crosses the plane. His left hand maintained control well after he released it with his right. Why? Cause it was the closest on to the pylon, and he was stretching the ball as far as he possibly could (with his left hand). Take notice of the ball's orientation while it is still held by both hands. It is not pointing toward the pylon. It's pointing from left to right. What does that have to do with anything? It has EVERYTHING to do with it! It CLEARLY indicates that Pig had it cupped from the end, with his left hand. It shows he clearly intended to stretch the ball out with his left hand...ONLY.

Again, if you look closely, you can see rotation on the ball and see it drop, too, once his left hand releases it....AFTER it has already crossed the plane.

At the 5:00 mark
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVnq36uDPys&list=PL6weYoLf7qRJuVChW7mecgaEoQS7nrVuZ[/youtube]
 

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#462
#462
VOLorNuttin said:
Obviously the commentators opining about it, had some bearing on viewers own opinions...and when I first saw it, it did "appear" that the ball came loose at about the 1yd line.

But after viewing it myself, from clips online (highlights available everywhere), and watching it closely, his taking his right hand off the ball was not an indication of loss of control. It initially appears that way. But after watching where his left hand is placed on the ball and the lack of movement of the ball from that hand....until after it crosses the plane. His left hand maintained control well after he released it with his right. Why? Cause it was the closest on to the pylon, and he was stretching the ball as far as he possibly could (with his left hand).

Again, if you look closely, you can see rotation on the ball and see it drop, too, once his left hand releases it....AFTER it has already crossed the plane.
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That's complete conjecture and baseless assumption. I watched the game with the sound off, so there's no way the commentators influenced me.

I could make the same assumption to you saying you having other Vols fans say it should have stood has influenced how you are viewing it, because you've run into people who are saying what you want to hear.
 
#464
#464
Vols520 said:
The mods should ban the people who think it was a td.

Lol at using still shots and grainy gifs as evidence.
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So, we should be banned for noticing that he had the ball cupped in his left hand? Yeah...you rode the short bus to school, for sure.
 
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#466
#466
VOLorNuttin said:
Obviously the commentators opining about it, had some bearing on viewers own opinions...and when I first saw it, it did "appear" that the ball came loose at about the 1yd line.

But after viewing it myself, from clips online (highlights available everywhere), and watching it closely, his taking his right hand off the ball was not an indication of loss of control. It initially appears that way. But after watching where his left hand is placed on the ball and the lack of movement of the ball from that hand....until after it crosses the plane. His left hand maintained control well after he released it with his right. Why? Cause it was the closest on to the pylon, and he was stretching the ball as far as he possibly could (with his left hand).

Again, if you look closely, you can see rotation on the ball and see it drop, too, once his left hand releases it....AFTER it has already crossed the plane.
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This is a good explanation. I had a monitor in front of me at the game and thought it was clearly a fumble. But after watching about 25 replays, I think there is an argument that he had control. If you look closely, his left hand drops down after crossing the goaline, and the trajectory of the ball changes. In my mind, if he had dropped it earlier, the ball would not have changed trajectories. I was not good at physics, so maybe someone with a science background could opine on it.
 
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#467
#467
VOLorNuttin said:
So, we should be banned for noticing that he had the ball cupped in his left hand? Yeah...you rode the short bus to school, for sure.
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U are right. The 52 people who think it wasn't a fumble can stay. But only in this thread so you can be morons together.

I hope u all never make fun of another fan base. It's embarrassing.
 
#468
#468
Vols520 said:
U are right. The 52 people who think it wasn't a fumble can stay. But only in this thread so you can be morons together.

I hope u all never make fun of another fan base. It's embarrassing.
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It's not embarrassing to actually look at what happened. Whatever we say will not change the outcome- just a discussion. But, it wasn't as clear cut as people want to think. Sometimes, I am not sure people actually look at it. Whether this was a UT player or a player of a team that I do not care about, I would say the same thing. It is what it is.
 
#469
#469
VOLorNuttin said:
Obviously the commentators opining about it, had some bearing on viewers own opinions...and when I first saw it, it did "appear" that the ball came loose at about the 1yd line.

But after viewing it myself, from clips online (highlights available everywhere), and watching it closely, his taking his right hand off the ball was not an indication of loss of control. It initially appears that way. But after watching where his left hand is placed on the ball and the lack of movement of the ball from that hand....until after it crosses the plane. His left hand maintained control well after he released it with his right. Why? Cause it was the closest on to the pylon, and he was stretching the ball as far as he possibly could (with his left hand).

Again, if you look closely, you can see rotation on the ball and see it drop, too, once his left hand releases it....AFTER it has already crossed the plane.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1843311/tenfumble.gif[/IMG
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Very well stated!!!!!! I agree with you 100%:rock:
 
#471
#471
allvol said:
Please post this photo... make sure its at the point where the nose of the ball just slightly passes the goal line.
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He can't. Notice the ball still has the left to right orientation (instead of straight ahead)....meaning he held initially held it steady with his right hand while cupping it from the end, with his left hand. Same thing you'd do if you tried to cup the end of the ball with with one hand and point it at someone. Exact same motion.

Same steps you'd take if you were trying to reach the ball as far as you could. You'd cup it from the end...not hold it with both hands. All the naysaying idiots here can't get it through their thick heads that he was NOT attempting to extend the ball with both hands.....but ONLY his left hand. They keep harping that when the right hand came off the ball, he lost control of it. NOT TRUE AT ALL!
 
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#472
#472
bamawriter said:
Sigh...

Touching. A. Ball. Does. Not. Equate. To. Possession.
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An argument can be made that pig had controll until he thought "oh shat I'm losing the ball" and reacted to it. his first visual reaction is the flick of his wrist. Almost like he's trying to regrip the ball.
 
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#474
#474
orangeslice13 said:
An argument can be made that pig had controll until he thought "oh shat I'm losing the ball" and reacted to it. his first visual reaction is the flick of his wrist. Almost like he's trying to regrip the ball.
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Hey, we agree!

The issue is, he started losing control and reacted a split second too late to regain it. By the time he vainly tried to regrip, possession was already lost.
 
#475
#475
VOLorNuttin said:
Cupping it from the end DOES, idiot! You've never seen players in pre-game clips point the ball at the camera? They cup the ball from the end, you inbred SOB.
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He was not cupping the ball by the end when it crossed the goal line. He simply had a few finger tips on it. He was touching it, but he did not have possession. The ball was clearly moving independent of his hand around the half yard point.
 
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