Doak Walker…Sampson Not a Finalist

[papatomany]

There's a simpler way to try and put some context to the discussion. Here's the list of players with more rushing yards than Jeanty through 12 games.

Barry Sanders
Marcus Allen

That's it...that's the list. Regardless of conference/strength of schedule/whatever. There's no unhappening that hard fact with speculative applications of the transitive property.

Also bear in mind that in those games he's got G5 blocking too. In 3 games against P5 teams he's managed 226y and 3td per game.

Look, for reasons you posit I think Sampson should have been a finalist. Jeanty literally had an all time regular season at the RB position.

Well if we're going "regardless of conference/strength of schedule/whatever" then where are Nate Kmic and Dante Brown on your list?

 

[papatomany]

Lol no it’s not. These individual awards don’t care about sos, only you and few homers who can’t see the forest for the trees. If it were the case there’s plenty of other awards you could cry about.

Actually, this would be the absolute first year the givers of these individual awards didn't figure in strength of schedule. Since 1990, when the Doak Walker Award was established, non-power five running backs have led the country 13 times. Only one won the award.

Sports-Reference lists 23 annual individual awards. So, 230 in the last 10 years. In that time 212 have gone to power five players.

 

[papatomany]

Samson has been extremely consistent. He's simply a very good RB and anyone arguing otherwise (regardless of their fandom) needs to watch more 2024 Vols football.

I don't understand the people trying to "unhappen" Jeanty though. It's been 5 years since anybody, anywhere in any conference has broken 2K. And Jeanty's done that in 11 games so far. Barring injury he'll have at least 2 more. He's also doing that at 7.5ypc. He's the only RB with 1K over 7ypc. Again, anywhere in FBS. To hear some people talk there "should" be half a dozen Jeanty types every year on G5 teams...but there isn't. Why not? Maybe because that level of accomplishment is actually pretty impressive regardless? I just don't get the hate.

It's because it's rare for a back who could have put up fantastic numbers at a lesser place to be okay with being a big fish in a small pond. They're already in the SEC or the Big Ten or the ACC. You honestly don't think Bijan Robinson, for example could have destroyed records playing in the Mountain West?

Anyhow, Jeanty has had a great year, equivalent to Baily Zappe and his 5967 at Western Kentucky. (Remember where he ended up in the Heisman voting?) I'm certainly not hating on him; just hating on the hype.

 

[C-south]

Actually, this would be the absolute first year the givers of these individual awards didn't figure in strength of schedule. Since 1990, when the Doak Walker Award was established, non-power five running backs have led the country 13 times. Only one won the award.

Sports-Reference lists 23 annual individual awards. So, 230 in the last 10 years. In that time 212 have gone to power five players.

You don’t have a clue what they factor in. As it sits now Boise is in the CFP. I’m sure if you work hard enough you can try and undermine that but it still won’t matter. If you wanted to argue Sampson should’ve been invited ahead of Hampton and Johnson I don’t think anyone would disagree. The fact is the award is already spoken for regardless if he got invited or not.

 

[hndog609]

Well if we're going "regardless of conference/strength of schedule/whatever" then where are Nate Kmic and Dante Brown on your list?

C'mon man, you knew what "conference" meant with regard to FBS.

 

[hndog609]

It's because it's rare for a back who could have put up fantastic numbers at a lesser place to be okay with being a big fish in a small pond. They're already in the SEC or the Big Ten or the ACC. You honestly don't think Bijan Robinson, for example could have destroyed records playing in the Mountain West?

Anyhow, Jeanty has had a great year, equivalent to Baily Zappe and his 5967 at Western Kentucky. (Remember where he ended up in the Heisman voting?) I'm certainly not hating on him; just hating on the hype.

I've no idea what Robinson would have done and neither does anyone else. I'm assuming he'd have done very well but beyond that becomes speculative.

And I'm actually glad you brought up Zappe. Obviously the Heisman wi...oh wait, he wasn't even on the list. So at least the position specific Davey O'brien award? Nope. 4th round draft pick too. Meanwhile Jeanty may win the Heisman. Will win the Doak Walker and is pretty much a lock for the 1st RB taken in the draft. There's a reason the two have been viewed differently. Once you grasp that difference it makes more sense.

 

[VolPack22]

Apparently they do given he's the Doak Walker winner, still possibly the Heisman winner and a lock for AA honors. You have an interesting interpretation of "nobody".

And you are in a bit of a bind with this incessant drum beat about the conference. If your assessment that any decent rb should be able to practically waltz for 2k yards in the MW do explain how aside from Jeanty over the past 5 seasons the conference rushing leader has averaged 1325 yards over 12 games? The reason your math doesn't hold up is because of the degree to which Jeanty is an outlier. You're trying to make a weighted argument, based on a not unreasonable metric, but failing to recognize the limitation. Let's see if we can help you out.

In 2022 the nation's leading rusher was Air Force's Brad Roberts with 1728y. He didn't make the Doak Walker finalist list. Neither in fact did the #2 or #3 rushing leaders. They didn't make it for the reasons you invoke in that context. 1600-1700y is a very nice season but for AF etc. it just doesn't have the "it" factor. Where this (your) argument loses steam is when ANYBODY puts up 2288y and 28tds in just 12 games. Only 2 other players have pulled that off, regardless of competition level, EVER. And that was Marcus Allen and Barry F'ing Sanders. It isn't that competition doesn't matter but rather that while it can contextually temper raw numbers (see the '22 DW above) it can't shade that level of production...and indeed does not.

You keep bringing up Barry Sanders and Marcus Allen. They played against the big boys in their conference. Sorry but nothing or that other Jeanty jock sniffer will say will change my opinion on the matter. Jeanty hasn’t played against quality competition other than Oregon and y’all really just don’t understand the grind of going up against teams loaded with 4 and 5 star players on a routine basis. Not just a single game against Oregon, but the entire damn season. The hits you absorb throughout a game in the SEC and Big Ten are just not comparable. Studs on defense everywhere. If Jeanty were exposed to that on a weekly basis he wouldn’t have the stats he has accumulated. I’m sorry, he just wouldn’t.

 

[VolPack22]

Actually, this would be the absolute first year the givers of these individual awards didn't figure in strength of schedule. Since 1990, when the Doak Walker Award was established, non-power five running backs have led the country 13 times. Only one won the award.

Sports-Reference lists 23 annual individual awards. So, 230 in the last 10 years. In that time 212 have gone to power five players.

It’s a lost cause with these two Jeanty jock sniffers. They can have him. He won’t even be in the CFP after champ week so the shine will go away instantly. Hope he enjoys the offseason and being overdrafted by some poor sap GM in the NFL.

 

[VolPack22]

Some people can’t take their orange glasses off and be objective. Nobody said anything bad about Sampson and he had a great year but Jeanty has been on another level. I’m not sure why they think sos and sec superiority complex matters.

You are right about one thing: he is on another level…. IN THE MOUNTAIN WEST

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Sampson is the leading rusher in the SEC.

Imagine how better his stats would be if he played in the Mountain West.

 

[VolPack22]

Sampson is the leading rusher in the SEC.

Imagine how better his stats would be if he played in the Mountain West.

A couple people in this thread refuse to believe he would be that much better. It’s like talking to a rock to them about this situation. It’s no use.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

A couple people in this thread refuse to believe he would be that much better. It’s like talking to a rock to them about this situation. It’s no use.

This is an ignorant argument. Compare Sampson’s stats to the last 3 winners.
We all know he’s getting snubbed, it’s just hard for some to admit it.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

A couple people in this thread refuse to believe he would be that much better. It’s like talking to a rock to them about this situation. It’s no use.

2022 completely destroys the competition argument.
Going on stats alone and not judging level of competition, there are at least 3 players more worthy than Bijan Robinson, to win the Doak Walker award.

 

[hndog609]

You keep bringing up Barry Sanders and Marcus Allen. They played against the big boys in their conference. Sorry but nothing or that other Jeanty jock sniffer will say will change my opinion on the matter. Jeanty hasn’t played against quality competition other than Oregon and y’all really just don’t understand the grind of going up against teams loaded with 4 and 5 star players on a routine basis. Not just a single game against Oregon, but the entire damn season. The hits you absorb throughout a game in the SEC and Big Ten are just not comparable. Studs on defense everywhere. If Jeanty were exposed to that on a weekly basis he wouldn’t have the stats he has accumulated. I’m sorry, he just wouldn’t.

Allen and Sanders keep being brought up because they're the only others to have done what Jeanty has done in 12 games. That's a dead simple empirical statement.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're just arguing to argue at this point. I flat out stated, exactly for the reasons you cite, that when the nation's leading rusher in '22 (and the next 2 for that matter) wasn't even in consideration for the DW it was because of where they played. Jeanty is different. This is not my "opinion". He may still win the Heisman. He's going to win the DW. He's a lock for AA and almost certainly the 1st RB taken. That's entirely due to what he's done on the field in spite of where he played, not because of where he played. Your comparisons are contextually flawed.

Which brings us to your last point which only emphasizes your disconnect. Has anyone argued Jeanty would have gained 2288 yards in the SEC? I sure as hell haven't. I'll state right now prime Barry Sanders wouldn't have either. Where you're simply faceplanting with your appeals to the transitive is that a 1 to 1 comparison isn't relevant. Do you know if Jeanty were in the SEC he wouldn't still be the leading rusher in the nation but with "only" 1700 yards and in the same Heisman/DW scenario he is now? Would he? Damned if I know. What I do know is you've got the square root of jack to counter that being the case. That's why such speculation on that shallow a level is meaningless, for or against Jeanty. He's done what he's done on a literally historic level and individually looked good doing it. That's what has elevated his status among awards voters and NFL scouts beyond some smaller school back with good numbers. That you're practically maliciously opposed to such a simple observation is franly weird.

It will be interesting to see how things go later. On paper it shouldn't matter how good any RB is a G5 OL shouldn't be able to hold up to a good big school front 7, certainly not regarding depth. Having said that quite literally the point of individual accolades is a function of looking at the individual and not the team.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

Let me be clear, the kid from Boise is deserving of the award. Is he the best back in the country? It’s hard to make that claim for or against the argument.
What I’m saying is Sampson absolutely got snubbed by not being named a finalist for the award.

 

[VolPack22]

Allen and Sanders keep being brought up because they're the only others to have done what Jeanty has done in 12 games. That's a dead simple empirical statement.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're just arguing to argue at this point. I flat out stated, exactly for the reasons you cite, that when the nation's leading rusher in '22 (and the next 2 for that matter) wasn't even in consideration for the DW it was because of where they played. Jeanty is different. This is not my "opinion". He may still win the Heisman. He's going to win the DW. He's a lock for AA and almost certainly the 1st RB taken. That's entirely due to what he's done on the field in spite of where he played, not because of where he played. Your comparisons are contextually flawed.

Which brings us to your last point which only emphasizes your disconnect. Has anyone argued Jeanty would have gained 2288 yards in the SEC? I sure as hell haven't. I'll state right now prime Barry Sanders wouldn't have either. Where you're simply faceplanting with your appeals to the transitive is that a 1 to 1 comparison isn't relevant. Do you know if Jeanty were in the SEC he wouldn't still be the leading rusher in the nation but with "only" 1700 yards and in the same Heisman/DW scenario he is now? Would he? Damned if I know. What I do know is you've got the square root of jack to counter that being the case. That's why such speculation on that shallow a level is meaningless, for or against Jeanty. He's done what he's done on a literally historic level and individually looked good doing it. That's what has elevated his status among awards voters and NFL scouts beyond some smaller school back with good numbers. That you're practically maliciously opposed to such a simple observation is franly weird.

It will be interesting to see how things go later. On paper it shouldn't matter how good any RB is a G5 OL shouldn't be able to hold up to a good big school front 7, certainly not regarding depth. Having said that quite literally the point of individual accolades is a function of looking at the individual and not the team.

Now I know you’re either ignorant or trolling or just a flat out idiot. Barry Sanders would’ve run over any conference. I guess you never watched old tape of him against teams like Nebraska and Oklahoma. Those were top ten programs. The fact y’all even mention this Jeanty kid in the same breath as someone like Barry Sanders is blasphemy. Barry Sanders is the greatest running back of all time to some people. You can GTFO with that nonsense.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

Allen and Sanders keep being brought up because they're the only others to have done what Jeanty has done in 12 games. That's a dead simple empirical statement.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're just arguing to argue at this point. I flat out stated, exactly for the reasons you cite, that when the nation's leading rusher in '22 (and the next 2 for that matter) wasn't even in consideration for the DW it was because of where they played. Jeanty is different. This is not my "opinion". He may still win the Heisman. He's going to win the DW. He's a lock for AA and almost certainly the 1st RB taken. That's entirely due to what he's done on the field in spite of where he played, not because of where he played. Your comparisons are contextually flawed.

Which brings us to your last point which only emphasizes your disconnect. Has anyone argued Jeanty would have gained 2288 yards in the SEC? I sure as hell haven't. I'll state right now prime Barry Sanders wouldn't have either. Where you're simply faceplanting with your appeals to the transitive is that a 1 to 1 comparison isn't relevant. Do you know if Jeanty were in the SEC he wouldn't still be the leading rusher in the nation but with "only" 1700 yards and in the same Heisman/DW scenario he is now? Would he? Damned if I know. What I do know is you've got the square root of jack to counter that being the case. That's why such speculation on that shallow a level is meaningless, for or against Jeanty. He's done what he's done on a literally historic level and individually looked good doing it. That's what has elevated his status among awards voters and NFL scouts beyond some smaller school back with good numbers. That you're practically maliciously opposed to such a simple observation is franly weird.

It will be interesting to see how things go later. On paper it shouldn't matter how good any RB is a G5 OL shouldn't be able to hold up to a good big school front 7, certainly not regarding depth. Having said that quite literally the point of individual accolades is a function of looking at the individual and not the team.

Now I will argue with you about prime Barry! He was a man amongst boys and would’ve destroyed the SEC or any other conference you could’ve put him in.
JMO

 

[VolPack22]

Now I will argue with you about prime Barry! He was a man amongst boys and would’ve destroyed the SEC or any other conference you could’ve put him in.
JMO

Yep, dude is a straight troll at this point.

 

[hndog609]

Now I will argue with you about prime Barry! He was a man amongst boys and would’ve destroyed the SEC or any other conference you could’ve put him in.
JMO

Oh he would have for sure. I just can't see 2288y in the SEC even for Barry in 12 games...though if anyone could do it...

 

[hndog609]

Yep, dude is a straight troll at this point.

LOL. Says the guy that's literally based his entire line of speculative argumentation on precisely the caveat used to make my observation. It's just impossible to take you seriously at this point. It's like you're not even trying.

Go Vols.

 

[Sk8nby]

Just a comment... yrds. per carry is kind of a misleading number. Say 23 rushes for 3-7 yrds. each, then 2 carries for 47 yrds each makes avg. much higher. So a RB who carries 23 rushes for 9 yrd. per carry, but has a lower total yrds , would be more productive each time. Who would you want?

 

[papatomany]

Except it not even remotely relevant to anything. If they both add 4 more teams they’ll have more . Who gives a s***?

If the 4 teams they add have the average number of NFL players the rest of the conference has, they'll have just over 100. In fact, let them double the size of the conference and they're still less than one third of the number in either of the SEC or Big 10 and still less than half of the ACC.

Your idea of "relevant" is mysterious, to say the least. And, as for "sec superiority complex": saying it over and over doesn't make it actually mean something. These words you keep saying: I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

 

[overseasorange2]

Sure I'll set my alarm to watch an ESPN program.

 

[apevol]

Honest question: how many is too many? Jeanty has two.

does anyone remember ricky williams????

 

[VolPack22]

LOL. Says the guy that's literally based his entire line of speculative argumentation on precisely the caveat used to make my observation. It's just impossible to take you seriously at this point. It's like you're not even trying.

Go Vols.

At least we have something in common now because I say the same thing about you