Does Anybody Else Love Chris Christie

#76
#76
shortgameVol said:
This argument is nonsense. Once again one of our "expert" posters is painting an entire group with a broad brush based on his LIMITED experience inside his own little bubble. I love it :birgits_giggle:

I agree with everything you've said about teachers. The dumbest statement of all time is that there are a bunch of people that would do it for 25K.

Let me correct you if I may. There are exponentially more dumb people in sales than teaching. It's not even close
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ironic post is ironic
 
#78
#78
shortgameVol said:
This argument is nonsense. Once again one of our "expert" posters is painting an entire group with a broad brush based on his LIMITED experience inside his own little bubble. I love it :birgits_giggle:

I agree with everything you've said about teachers. The dumbest statement of all time is that there are a bunch of people that would do it for 25K.

Let me correct you if I may. There are exponentially more dumb people in sales than teaching. It's not even close
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Who is the dumb guy now? Look how many teachers in Utah are making around $25K or less.

How to become a teacher in Utah : UT Teacher Certification
 
#80
#80
TheDeeble said:
Unless I missed something in that link you're talking about pre-school teachers?
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I would imagine, just by looking at the chart, that most teachers come on making a salary between the 10th percentile figure and the 25th percentile figure. This would support his argument.
 
#81
#81
#82
#82
can't speak for nbakerld, but i have issues with people who think they shouldn't be fired if they suck at their job and instead their younger harder working and cheaper counterparts should be fired..
 
#83
#83
therealUT said:
I would imagine, just by looking at the chart, that most teachers come on making a salary between the 10th percentile figure and the 25th percentile figure. This would support his argument.
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Yes. If even 1/10 of Utah teachers are making about $25K or less, and there is a bigger supply than demand then it refutes the comment, "The dumbest statement of all time is that there are a bunch of people that would do it for 25K."
 
#84
#84
JayVols said:
What is your beef with teachers? I am not trying to be a smart alec or pick a fight. I would just like to understand the general disdain vibe I'm getting from you when it comes to teachers. If I am mistaken, apologies.
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I love good teachers. My Dad and grandparents are/were educators. I respect the profession, but the teachers union holds the taxpayer hostage. It seems like all they ever do is cry about pay, and they always think they deserve more pay (who doesn't?). The schools don't improve, either. If teachers want more pay then they need to push the union to negotiate pay for performance. As long as we pay all teachers equally the good ones can't earn more because the bad ones will too.

Nothing pisses me off worse than complaining about pay. You agreed to your salary. You thought it was worth it. Suddenly it's not enough and you deserve more. Why do you deserve more when you're willing to work at that price and if you aren't somebody else is? Simple economics (which almost no K-12 teacher understands).
 
#85
#85
droski said:
can't speak for nbakerld, but i have issues with people who think they shouldn't be fired if they suck at their job and instead their younger harder working and cheaper counterparts should be fired..
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Read the tenure laws. They can be fired if they are ineffective. There are some out there that have the view that you stated, but most teachers I encounter feel that the bad teachers give those that work hard a bad name. I just don't understand the generalizations.
 
#86
#86
Also the teachers and teachers union are violently opposed to voucher systems, even though vouchers give them all they've ever demanded in order to improve schooling:

(1) More money per student
(2) Smaller classroom sizes

But under the voucher system schools have smaller total budgets, and the teachers union doesn't like that. They showed their true colors.
 
#87
#87
JayVols said:
Read the tenure laws. They can be fired if they are ineffective. There are some out there that have the view that you stated, but most teachers I encounter feel that the bad teachers give those that work hard a bad name. I just don't understand the generalizations.
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The reality is that "ineffective" is hard to define and the number of teachers fired (that should be) is minimal due to tenure and unions.

It's the same at universities - we support complete incompetents because of tenure rules.
 
#88
#88
nbakerld said:
I love good teachers. My Dad and grandparents are/were educators. I respect the profession, but the teachers union holds the taxpayer hostage. It seems like all they ever do is cry about pay, and they always think they deserve more pay (who doesn't?). The schools don't improve, either. If teachers want more pay then they need to push the union to negotiate pay for performance. As long as we pay all teachers equally the good ones can't earn more because the bad ones will too.

Nothing pisses me off worse than complaining about pay. You agreed to your salary. You thought it was worth it. Suddenly it's not enough and you deserve more. Why do you deserve more when you're willing to work at that price and if you aren't somebody else is? Simple economics (which almost no K-12 teacher understands).
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I understand most of your points. However, things have changed enormously since your grandparents taught. Discipline has been removed from the schools. Teachers in general are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
 
#89
#89
volinbham said:
The reality is that "ineffective" is hard to define and the number of teachers fired (that should be) is minimal due to tenure and unions.

It's the same at universities - we support complete incompetents because of tenure rules.
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No offense, but that is on the administration. It's their job to do the things you mentioned.
 
#90
#90
JayVols said:
I understand most of your points. However, things have changed enormously since your grandparents taught. Discipline has been removed from the schools. Teachers in general are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
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My high school didn't have a discipline problem at all, but it is still a failing school in my opinion. It was such a breeze.
 
#91
#91
JayVols said:
Read the tenure laws. They can be fired if they are ineffective.
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then why doesn't it happen? do you know how bad you have to be as a teacher to get written up? outside of showing up drunk you can't get fired.
 
#92
#92
droski said:
can't speak for nbakerld, but i have issues with people who think they shouldn't be fired if they suck at their job and instead their younger harder working and cheaper counterparts should be fired..
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This is where I agree with you 100%. The problem is you have a few bad apples ruining for the tons and tons of really good teachers. The teachers' unions have absolutely made a mockery out of tenure
 
#93
#93
nbakerld said:
Also the teachers and teachers union are violently opposed to voucher systems, even though vouchers give them all they've ever demanded in order to improve schooling:

(1) More money per student
(2) Smaller classroom sizes

But under the voucher system schools have smaller total budgets, and the teachers union doesn't like that. They showed their true colors.
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Not necessarily against vouchers. So, you are for public tax money going to private entities you approve, and against public money going to private entities that you don't approve (unions)? I really am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't understand your logic on this one. :hi:
 
#94
#94
JayVols said:
No offense, but that is on the administration. It's their job to do the things you mentioned.
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I agree but while teachers do resent freeloaders they also rally against administration. Through in lawsuits and you have a system that does not clear itself of ineffective employees.

Bottomline, it's very hard to fire a teacher regardless of their performance.
 
#95
#95
droski said:
then why doesn't it happen? do you know how bad you have to be as a teacher to get written up? outside of showing up drunk you can't get fired.
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As I said before, that's on the administration. That's their job.
 
#96
#96
nbakerld said:
My high school didn't have a discipline problem at all, but it is still a failing school in my opinion. It was such a breeze.
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How long have you been out? The changes in the last 5-7 years are astounding. Later guys.
 
#98
#98
JayVols said:
As I said before, that's on the administration. That's their job.
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if you are an administrator why are you going to put yourself out on a limb and try to prove beyond a resonable doubt that this person sucks at their job? remember it's not just the administrators word or opinion they need proof.
 
#99
#99
JayVols said:
Not necessarily against vouchers. So, you are for public tax money going to private entities you approve, and against public money going to private entities that you don't approve (unions)? I really am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't understand your logic on this one. :hi:
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Public unions should be illegal. They create extremely powerful special interest groups. The teachers union takes my tax dollar and donates it to candidates I don't support, then when that guy wins office they lobby him to take more of my money and give it to them. It's an extremely corrupt system.

Vouchers give me a better opportunity to take my kid out of a failing system and send some* of my tax dollars to a school I trust will not use my tax dollars against me.

*Average $ spent on K-12 students in Utah was $7K when the proposed vouchers were defeated. At a max $3K was to go with the child to a private school. Part of the remaining $4K was to remain in the education budget and part was to remain in the overall state budget. Everybody wins (except the Union and bad teachers).
 
#100
#100
JayVols said:
Not necessarily against vouchers. So, you are for public tax money going to private entities you approve, and against public money going to private entities that you don't approve (unions)? I really am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't understand your logic on this one. :hi:
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many private schools offer a better education at an equivalent (many times better) price per student.
 
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