Does anyone have an entitlement to advantage based on birth?

#102
#102
n_huffhines said:
You're talking to the person who made the meme, and I'm telling you that it has nothing to do with citizenship. The point is that we have a God-given right to exist where we want to exist. Government doesn't give us that right, it only takes it away.
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I moved off citizenship to simply entry for ya.

Is entry into the United States a natural right?
 
#103
#103
n_huffhines said:
You're talking to the person who made the meme, and I'm telling you that it has nothing to do with citizenship. The point is that we have a God-given right to exist where we want to exist. Government doesn't give us that right, it only takes it away.
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people also take it away via the notion of private property - now the big question becomes is private property a natural right?
 
#105
#105
volinbham said:
people also take it away via the notion of private property - now the big question becomes is private property a natural right?
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I don't think that it is, but not sure why that is the big question (especially relating to this thread)?
 
#106
#106
lawgator1 said:
Not at all. As a practical matter I do think that a probationary period of work and no significant criminal behavior is a reasonable solution, don't you?
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Then they just become illegals like the millions of others.
 
#109
#109
n_huffhines said:
You're talking to the person who made the meme, and I'm telling you that it has nothing to do with citizenship. The point is that we have a God-given right to exist where we want to exist. Government doesn't give us that right, it only takes it away.
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We have a right to exist . Where you chose to exist is determined by your ability, desire , and determination to make that happen according to the laws and conditions set in place by the people /governments that you are trying to join with . Anything other than that is the equivalent of saying .. I have the right to walk through the US as a citizen of Mexico , into Canada anytime I want , any place I chose , so I can moose hunt freely with being bothered or detained by those countries . You’ll be famous on all the MSM outlets but it won’t work out well for you .
 
#111
#111
lawgator1 said:
No. I'd like to ENCOURAGE them to be documented. That way we collect taxes from their work.
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For the most part we do collect taxes from their work. Most use stolen SSNs so we collect taxes on the majority of them.
 
#112
#112
EasternVol said:
I don't feel entitled over legal immigrants. If they followed the program they have as much right to be here as I do. I do have issues with illegals; in general they and their offspring don't belong.
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But they are legal if they are born here.
 
#114
#114
n_huffhines said:
If you believe in natural rights, how could you not believe that the government is interfering with them?
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I do believe in natural rights.

I’m still trying to discern if entry into the United States is a natural right.
 
#115
#115
lawgator1 said:
A number of threads of late about immigration. I understand if you move to another country and through hard work earn a spot in that society.

But for the vast majority of Americans there seems to be an assumption that they are entitled to some presumption that they belong, and others do not, based on the happenstance of where they were born.
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Not a fan of birthright citizenship. It should be earned. As should the privilege of voting.
 
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#117
#117
lawgator1 said:
Of course. But is it an entitlement by birth to belong whereas others are less worthy because they happened to be born elsewhere?
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It's not less worthy. They are just as worthy to legally immigrate here.

What makes them not worthy, if you want to use that phrase, is their actions and not their birth place. They are breaking our laws, and cutting in line. They are expecting special treatment because they didnt go through the process.

I always look at it as family. Anyone can marry in, anyone can leave, but blood is blood and that's different than water. And as far as birthright one of the parents would have to legitimately belong to the family for the children to count as family as well.

I would be fine if the so called anchor babies were given an easier path to citizenship themselves because of our current citizenship laws, but the parents should go through the regular process. Breaking the law should never grant special privilege.
 
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#118
#118
n_huffhines said:
I believe we should have a natural right to exist wherever we want to exist, just as long as it's not on somebody else's private property.

Citizenship is a construct and I don't think we have a natural right to that.
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Both natural rights and citizenship are constructs. Useful constructs, but constructs nonetheless.
 
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#119
#119
[QUOTE="Sandman 423, post: 2176634
As far as getting other countries to follow suite. f***'em, who cares about other countries.[/QUOTE]
If we're the only somewhat desirable state that allows free immigration we'll be the only one that gets the barrel scrapings. If all countries have it then we won't get so many. Why travel thousands of miles to Brooklyn when Frankfort is close by?
 
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#120
#120
85SugarVol said:
I do believe in natural rights.

I’m still trying to discern if entry into the United States is a natural right.
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Entry into the United States is an unnatural concept. It's in our nature to go wherever we want and let other people go wherever they want, just as long as they leave others' personal property alone. Government is used to deny these natural rights. We are using it to tell Juan Doe that he can't buy vacant property in Wyoming and live there. We are also telling John Doe he can't hire that guy and are eliminating him as a potential buyer of John Doe's property.

Now you can say, private property isn't natural and I don't disagree, but there is a world of difference between saying "You can't take what I have because I bled for it." and "You can't live within this 4 million square mile boundary because I was born in it."
 
#122
#122
n_huffhines said:
Entry into the United States is an unnatural concept. It's in our nature to go wherever we want and let other people go wherever they want, just as long as they leave others' personal property alone. Government is a construct that we use to deny these natural rights. We are using this construct to tell Juan Doe that he can't buy vacant property in Wyoming and live there. We are also telling John Doe he can't hire that guy and are eliminating him as a potential buyer of John Doe's property.

Now you can say, private property isn't natural and I don't disagree, but there is a world of difference between saying "You can't take what I have because I bled for it." and "You can't live within this 4 million square mile boundary because I was born in it."
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Well government works both ways. It is supposed to provide for the ones here legally and keep the ones out who are not. Deal with it and help them make their government better.
 
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