Don't know if true but I'm not happy...(Memphis St series)

#226
#226
MemphisCanes said:
Slap in the face? You still don't seem to understand why Pastner or Cal wanted out of the series. We can't keep people out of Memphis.

We can, however, keep from having to go to Knoxville every other year, play in front of a hostile crowd and take an RPI hit, while not showcasing for any recruits.

It's becoming quite apparent who "needs" this series more from the responses on this message board. Have fun playing Arkansas or Ole Miss in the Forum on a Monday/Tuesday night. That'll be barn burner for sure.
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You're exactly right we need this series more for recruiting than anything else, I see nobody arguing that, I'm certainly not. I just find it funny that a rivalry game like this comes down to we don't wanna continue because it gives you access to our guys.

It's a great game for the state and it's fun for he fans IMO, a good hyped rivalry is a blast IMO. It's sad to me that it has to end because Pastner is getting overly concerned about losing recruits.

And take a rpi hit? How would you take a rpi hit? You make it sound like we are 300th in rpi ever year, seriously?

And you recently made the point that playing in storrs is only about 3 hours from NYC so going to play Uconn will me pastner in there. Well that works both ways, Atlanta is about 21/2 hour from Knoxville and has probably 2nd best talent to Memphis. So yea, coming to knoxville by your theory is showing for recruits much like you will when you go to storrs.

Well gladly take either of those games in downtown Memphis and when you lose recruits to us still like you did stokes and are going to Nichols I don't wanna hear your crying.
 
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#227
#227
bleedingTNorange said:
You're exactly right we need this series more for recruiting than anything else, I see nobody arguing that, I'm certainly not. I just find it funny that a rivalry game like this comes down to we don't wanna continue because it gives you access to our guys.

It's a great game for the state and it's fun for he fans IMO, a good hyped rivalry is a blast IMO. It's sad to me that it has to end because Pastner is getting overly concerned about losing recruits.

Again, it's not about "losing" recruits, it's about what UT has to offer Memphis. We can't keep a team out of Memphis, but we can play in more fertile recruiting grounds than Knoxville with our OOC games. It is a great rivalry for the state and it's sad that UT never warmed up to the idea of playing in Nashville.

And take a rpi hit? How would you take a rpi hit? You make it sound like we are 300th in rpi ever year, seriously?

You guys have had an RPI in the 100+ range all season, and sometimes into the 240+ range. That's awful and we've had to play you twice. If we hadn't, we'd probably have an RPI 3 spots highers right now. It was one thing when Bruce was around and you guys were top 10 RPI, but now under the new regime, it's more of an RPI anchor.

And you recently made the point that playing in storrs is only about 3 hours from NYC so going to play Uconn will me pastner in there. Well that works both ways, Atlanta is about 21/2 hour from Knoxville and has probably 2nd best talent to Memphis. So yea, coming to knoxville by your theory is showing for recruits much like you will when you go to storrs.

We play UConn in conference, chief. If we wanted to grab the attention of recruits in the ATL, we'd go play in the ATL, not Knoxville.

Well gladly take either of those games in downtown Memphis and when you lose recruits to us still like you did stokes and are going to Nichols I don't wanna hear your crying.

We can't sign em all out of Memphis. More power to you. We'll continue to cherry pick our favorites, though, and Martin will have to deal with it. We're willing to deal with the loss of Stokes when we have a McD's AA coming in that plays the same sport. We're willing to deal with losing a player like Nichols when we'll wrap up King and maybe JW3.
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#228
#228
MemphisCanes said:
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Yes this year we had a bad rpi, but I was talking about throughout the series. We have always had a good rpi, it's a down year for us it was kind if expected.

You won't be cherry picking recruits, if you were you wouldn't have lost poythress. Also, you'd have king, hubbs and jw3 coming in in 13' class and Nichols. You'll be lucky to get 1 of 4, not exactly a big time accomplishment in that.

How a first year coach is gonna come into Memphis and take out its best player for '12 class says something about what recruits are starting to think of pastner. Top that with the fact that another top player in Nichols wants no part of Memphis, riddle me that one. Don't say josh don't want then he went and is going after both hard.

As I said out of king, jw3, hubbs and nichols(the big 4) you'll be lucky to get 1, which as I said isn't very impressive.

IMO, if josh doesn't make noise this year or big time noise next year then it's the beginning of the downfall for Memphis basketball. You can't have to sub standard years, miss on big recruits, and then join a conference like the big east. Pastner needs to have a very good next year and a half leading into the joining of the big east or it's going to be very rough IMO.
 
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#229
#229
bleedingTNorange said:
Yes this year we had a bad rpi, but I was talking about throughout the series. We have always had a good rpi, it's a down year for us it was kind if expected.

That's yet to be seen. So far, Martin's team at UT has an average RPI of 100+.

You won't be cherry picking recruits, if you were you wouldn't have lost poythress. Also, you'd have king, hubbs and jw3 coming in in 13' class and Nichols. You'll be lucky to get 1 of 4, not exactly a big time accomplishment in that.

I don't even need to respond to this. You should be ashamed. You are giving UT basketball fans everywhere a bad name.

How a first year coach is gonna come into Memphis and take out its best player for '12 class says something about what recruits are starting to think of pastner. Top that with the fact that another top player in Nichols wants no part of Memphis, riddle me that one. Don't say josh don't want then he went and is going after both hard.

It says that Stokes could play right away at UT and nowhere else. Again, congrats on leaving a scholarship hanging. I'm sure that won't stop you from proclaiming that CCM "outrecruited" Pastner, Cal and others, however inaccurate that may be.

As I said out of king, jw3, hubbs and nichols(the big 4) you'll be lucky to get 1, which as I said isn't very impressive.

You just keep your fingers crossed on that, man. Your knowledge of recruiting is less than impressive, as you've already demonstrated.

IMO, if josh doesn't make noise this year or big time noise next year then it's the beginning of the downfall for Memphis basketball. You can't have to sub standard years, miss on big recruits, and then join a conference like the big east. Pastner needs to have a very good next year and a half leading into the joining of the big east or it's going to be very rough IMO.

Pastner has signed 4 McD's AA in his short tenure at Memphis, including 2 from ATL, UT's backyard according to you. Hard to say that he's "missing on recruits" when he already had an AA recruited for the 4 spot this season. His recruiting is just fine and will only improve with Memphis' inclusion in the Big East. No reason to think otherwise. I know you wish it were otherwise, but that's simply just not the case from the evidence that we have available.
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#230
#230
MemphisCanes said:
Slap in the face? You still don't seem to understand why Pastner or Cal wanted out of the series. We can't keep people out of Memphis.

We can, however, keep from having to go to Knoxville every other year, play in front of a hostile crowd and take an RPI hit, while not showcasing for any recruits.

It's becoming quite apparent who "needs" this series more from the responses on this message board. Have fun playing Arkansas or Ole Miss in the Forum on a Monday/Tuesday night. That'll be barn burner for sure.
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Wow, its quite apparent memphis is scared to continue to play UT and thats it! All these ridiculous excuses are funny. Before this year and the NCAA mess memphis had lost 4 of the last 5 and 9 of the last 12. Thats why you're scared to play. You know this is Martins first year and will be an off year just like Pastners was. Except Martin now has 3 wins against ranked teams and Pastner has NONE after 3 years. If you thought you could consistently beat TN then why would you not want to play them. Dont try the rpi hit excuse, TN has helped boost memphis rpi not decrease it. For instance last years rpi for UT was 33, the year before that UT's rpi was 14 and memphis was 53. Plus I believe our strength of schedule is always higher than memphis so try again!
 
#231
#231
MemphisCanes said:
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What's so funny about poythress? That he's not technically Memphis, and is from Clarksville. Hubbs isn't technically from Memphis either. I was simply saying a boy from the state of TN and close to Memphis that Pastner wanted badly, completely missed on.

Just make sure to reappear and check in that's all I ask. Pastner is not the answer, point blank, he isn't going to be nearly as successful as cal. You will be lucky to have a top 25 program with him as your coach, he can recruit a good as you'd like, he needs to learn to coach. In 3 years he has yet to finish in the top 25, that's pretty sad if you ask me.

As I said if he doesn't make some noise this year or next before heading to a much tougher conference you may wanna try bringing cal back.
 
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#232
#232
CWGvol said:
Wow, its quite apparent memphis is scared to continue to play UT and thats it! All these ridiculous excuses are funny. Before this year and the NCAA mess memphis had lost 4 of the last 5 and 9 of the last 12. Thats why you're scared to play. You know this is Martins first year and will be an off year just like Pastners was. Except Martin now has 3 wins against ranked teams and Pastner has NONE after 3 years. If you thought you could consistently beat TN then why would you not want to play them. Dont try the rpi hit excuse, TN has helped boost memphis rpi not decrease it. For instance last years rpi for UT was 33, the year before that UT's rpi was 14 and memphis was 53. Plus I believe our strength of schedule is always higher than memphis so try again!
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For this season:

RPI for 2012-02-14 - College Basketball - StatSheet.com

Memphis- RPI: 20; SOS: 16 (no real help from UT on this one)

UT- RPI: 109; SOS: 37.

Again, Bruce Pearl ain't walking back through the door. No need to discuss stats when he was here, just like there's no need to discuss Cal's stats.
 
#233
#233
bleedingTNorange said:
Just make sure to reappear and check in that's all I ask. Pastner is not the answer, point blank, he isn't going to be nearly as successful as cal. You will be lucky to have a top 25 program with him as your coach, he can recruit a good as you'd like, he needs to learn to coach. In 3 years he has yet to finish in the top 25, that's pretty sad if you ask me.
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That's your opinion. Pastner may not have signature wins, but he's got a winning pct over 70% and has avoided horrible losses, such as Losing to Austin Peay at home. He's recruiting as well or better than Cal did when he was here (save for the 2009 class that never was). His team is playing noticeably better this season than last, and he's on his way to his third straight 20 win season.

Plus he's young and he's bound to become a better coach over time. However, if he's not the answer, Memphis is in a great position to attract a new high-profile coach. The biggest knock on Memphis' program (I.e. conference affiliation) is now moot.
 
#234
#234
MemphisCanes said:
For this season:

RPI for 2012-02-14 - College Basketball - StatSheet.com

Memphis- RPI: 20; SOS: 16 (no real help from UT on this one)

UT- RPI: 109; SOS: 37.

Again, Bruce Pearl ain't walking back through the door. No need to discuss stats when he was here, just like there's no need to discuss Cal's stats.
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We all get Tennessee is down this year nobodies debating that. It's just pretty chicken ****tish to get handled the previous years then when UT dips down a bit jump out of the series at first chance.

Just pretty skittish IMO
 
#235
#235
bleedingTNorange said:
What's so funny about poythress? That he's not technically Memphis, and is from Clarksville. Hubbs isn't technically from Memphis either. I was simply saying a boy from the state of TN and close to Memphis that Pastner wanted badly, completely missed on.

Just make sure to reappear and check in that's all I ask. Pastner is not the answer, point blank, he isn't going to be nearly as successful as cal. You will be lucky to have a top 25 program with him as your coach, he can recruit a good as you'd like, he needs to learn to coach. In 3 years he has yet to finish in the top 25, that's pretty sad if you ask me.

As I said if he doesn't make some noise this year or next before heading to a much tougher conference you may wanna try bringing cal back.
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Do you even know where Clarksville is?
 
#236
#236
MemphisCanes said:
That's your opinion. Pastner may not have signature wins, but he's got a winning pct over 70% and has avoided horrible losses, such as Losing to Austin Peay at home. He's recruiting as well or better than Cal did when he was here (save for the 2009 class that never was). His team is playing noticeably better this season than last, and he's on his way to his third straight 20 win season.

Plus he's young and he's bound to become a better coach over time. However, if he's not the answer, Memphis is in a great position to attract a new high-profile coach. The biggest knock on Memphis' program (I.e. conference affiliation) is now moot.
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BAHAHAHAHA at his winning percentage

He plays in c USA, really your gonna brag about it haha.

What was cals while he was there? Exactly

Sorry but any loss in c USA is a bad loss, how many of those does pastner have?

How many did Texas el paso win by last year, 30 something BAHAHAHAHA

How do you lose by 30 to a c-USA team, what a joke.

And no Memphis won't bring in some big time coach, do you not recall the search after cal? There wa nobody big time interested.
 
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#237
#237
bleedingTNorange said:
We all get Tennessee is down this year nobodies debating that. It's just pretty chicken ****tish to get handled the previous years then when UT dips down a bit jump out of the series at first chance.

Just pretty skittish IMO
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It has nothing to do with UT's relative strength or weakness. Believe me, I'd like to keep playing you for the next 5 years so we can take the series lead, but it's about more efficient use of our OOC games, not bragging rights.
 
#239
#239
bleedingTNorange said:
BAHAHAHAHA at his winning percentage

He plays in c USA, really your gonna brag about it haha.

What was cals while he was there? Exactly

Sorry but any loss in c USA is a bad loss, how many of those does pastner have?

And no Memphis won't bring in some big time coach, do you not recall the search after cal? There wa nobody big time interested.
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See my earlier post. Who has the harder schedule, the SEC team or the C-USA team? The C-USA team.

Is a loss in C-USA worse than a loss at home to, say, Austin Peay? Honestly, I want your take on it.

You mean the search in which Memphis was still in the C-USA, had impending NCAA sanctions and had just had it's recruiting class imploded? That search? Yeah.
 
#240
#240
MemphisCanes said:
See my earlier post. Who has the harder schedule, the SEC team or the C-USA team? The C-USA team.

Is a loss in C-USA worse than a loss at home to, say, Austin Peay? Honestly, I want your take on it.

You mean the search in which Memphis was still in the C-USA, had impending NCAA sanctions and had just had it's recruiting class imploded? That search? Yeah.
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Sec team clearly, which leaves me guessing why your gloating about joshys winning %

IMO looking at talent disparity no it actually pretty close We lost in a season we were projected to be about the 180th team in the country to a team that is about 200th iirc.

You guys were supposed to be #8 team losing to an unranked and not NCAA team in Texas el paso BY 30 FREAKING POINTS.

When both are considered, us supposing to be horrible and losing to a horrible team closely, or Memphis projected to be top 10 losing embarrassingly to a c USA bottom dweller.

Don't know that you can honestly say one is much better than the other.

Excuse after excuse. Would job have been more appealing before if you were in big east? Definitely. But once pastner drowns the program I the level of depaul in the big east people won't be lined up for the job.
 
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#242
#242
MemphisCanes said:
Then you're aware that Clarksville is not close to Memphis, and has nothing to do with this conversation?
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For the 37574347th time, my point was its a kid from TN, whose closer to Memphis than Lexington, pastner wanted desperately and missed on. That's all I was saying, that he doesn't cherry pick recruits because if he did he'd have gotten poythress. Simple concept really.
 
#243
#243
bleedingTNorange said:
Sec team clearly, which leaves me guessing why your gloating about joshys winning %

IMO looking at talent disparity no it actually pretty close We lost in a season we were projected to be about the 180th team in the country to a team that is about 200th iirc.

You guys were supposed to be #8 team losing to an unranked and not NCAA team in Texas el paso BY 30 FREAKING POINTS.

When both are considered, us supposing to be horrible and losing to a horrible team closely, or Memphis projected to be top 10 losing embarrassingly to a c USA bottom dweller.

Don't know that you can honestly say one is much better than the other.

Excuse after excuse. Would job have been more appealing before if you were in big east? Definitely. But once pastner drowns the program I the level of depaul in the big east people won't be lined up for the job.
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LOL. Again, please refer to the numbers before you spout off about UT playing a harder schedule than Memphis. It's simply untrue.

And the rest of your post has just devolved into illiterate rantings. Are you having a stroke, or is trying to keep up in this argument frying your brain?
 
#244
#244
bleedingTNorange said:
For the 37574347th time, my point was its a kid from TN, whose closer to Memphis than Lexington, pastner wanted desperately and missed on. That's all I was saying, that he doesn't cherry pick recruits because if he did he'd have gotten poythress. Simple concept really.
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Poythress =/= Memphis kid. Keep up, plz.
 
#246
#246
MemphisCanes said:
LOL. Again, please refer to the numbers before you spout off about UT playing a harder schedule than Memphis. It's simply untrue.

And the rest of your post has just devolved into illiterate rantings. Are you having a stroke, or is trying to keep up in this argument frying your brain?
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A harder conference schedule, that was the topic genius not overall. Sec schedule is 100x harder than c USA so bragging about having a coach who wins 70% of his games but plays in c USA is a joke. I get his % is high with a tough SOS but when you can easily win 16 conference ganes a year it kind of makes it easier to boost the win %. If cal played in the sec with his ooc schedule he'd have a 50% win pct.

Wanna bet the % dips when he joins the big easy?

What part didn't you get, I'll try to speak slowly.

Memphis losing by 30 to a crappy conf USA team when they were projected a top 10 team is just as bad as UT who was picked about 180th in the country losing to a bad team in AP by a close marging.

How can you argue any different?
 
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#247
#247
bleedingTNorange said:
A harder conference schedule, that was the topic genius not overall. Sec schedule is 100x harder than c USA so bragging about having a coach who wins 70% of his games but plays in c USA is a joke. I get his % is high with a tough SOS but when you can easily win 16 conference ganes a year it kind of makes it easier to boost the win %. If cal played in the sec with his ooc schedule he'd have a 50% win pct.

Wanna bet the % dips when he joins the big easy?

What part didn't you get, I'll try to speak slowly.

Memphis losing by 30 to a crappy conf USA team when they were projected a top 10 team is just as bad as UT who was picked about 180th in the country losing to a bad team in AP by a close marging.

How can you argue any different?
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What does conference SOS have to do with this? Memphis' OVERALL SOS is higher than UT's this season, which takes into account OOC and Conference games.

Losing to a UTEP team that went 15-1 in conference and made the tournament, at their house, is far better than losing to a 9-18 Austin Peay team in your own building.

Are you serious?

EDIT: Nevermind, that was 2010 UTEP. Still, that UTEP team went to the NIT, was rater 67 in kenpom and had a 25-10 record. Memphis also beat them in the C-USA tourney in El paso. Austin peay is just..... horrible.
 
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#248
#248
MemphisCanes said:
What does conference SOS have to do with this? Memphis' OVERALL SOS is higher than UT's this season, which takes into account OOC and Conference games.

Losing to a UTEP team that went 15-1 in conference and made the tournament, at their house, is far better than losing to a 9-18 Austin Peay team in your own building.

Are you serious?

EDIT: Nevermind, that was 2010 UTEP. Still, that UTEP team went to the NIT, was rater 67 in kenpom and had a 25-10 record. Memphis also beat them in the C-USA tourney in El paso. Austin peay is just..... horrible.
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Their SOS is higher because of out I conference, here's my point. You play 30 games if 16 are against cusa while our 16 our against sec ours is harder. A good season in conference is 10 wins, cusa is about 15 wins. So that's 5 more wins just because of the conference you play in, add 5 wins a year to any sec coach and their win % is much better. Those 5 wins are good for about a 15% difference in winning %, so as I said if Memphis played in the sec he'd be about 50%.

If you don't believe me that's fine watch and see when you enter the big east, which luckily for you is gonna lose 2 basketball schools. Keep track of pastner winning % once he joins the big east, I bet it won't be much over 50%.


Exactly edit that because you were dead wrong about that UTEP team. Oh wow they made the NIT, I'm sure Austin peay will make the CBI or whatever it is, the NIT doesn mean jack crap.

An as I said look at the 2 scenarios:

Memphis is top 10 team and gets BLOWN out by a NIT cusa team in EMBARASSING fashion.

Tennessee is ranked about 180th and losses a close game to AP who is about 200th in the country.


See the difference. We were beaten in a close game by someone who technically was about 20 spots worse than us according to the rpi. Memphis on the other hand got destroyed by a team that was about 50 spots worse than they were. When you look yea AP Is a worse team than UTEP, but you have to stop and realize Memphis was a top 10 team, Tennessee was 180th. Big difference!

Simply put:
#8 memphis losses by 30 to #67 UTEP

#180 Tennessee losses by 4 to #190 AP

See the difference?
 
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#249
#249
First, and this is really the last time I can explain this to you. If you don't understand, maybe go back and take remedial math or stats.

A team's OVERALL SOS includes both in conference and out of conference games. UT most likely has a tougher in conference schedule, but Memphis has played a tougher schedule overall. Whatever wins we got in conference were balanced out by a ridiculous out of conference schedule.

If Pastner's win pct goes down in the Big East, it's because his overall SOS is going up.

Second, and again, I can't believe I'm having to spell this out, the Austin Peay team that beat you is now 9-18. Let that sink in. They're ranked #220 in Kenpom. Teams that have managed to beat them at their own arena, which UT could not, include:

Memphis (by 31 pts)
Lipscomb
Bowling Green
Eastern Kentucky
Morehead St.
SE Missouri St.
Tenn. St.

During Pastner's time at Memphis, the worst team he's lost to at home was a 19-13 Tulsa team ranked 90th in kenpom. No sense ragging Pastner about a loss to UTEP when that UTEP team is better than the following SEC teams this season (according to Kenpom):

Auburn
South Carolina
Georgia
LSU
Mississippi
Arkansas
Tennessee
Mississippi State

Also, where do you get that Memphis was the 10th best team in the nation and UT was the 180th this season? Seem like pretty arbitrary numbers.
 
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#250
#250
MemphisCanes said:
First, and this is really the last time I can explain this to you. If you don't understand, maybe go back and take remedial math or stats.

A team's OVERALL SOS includes both in conference and out of conference games. UT most likely has a tougher in conference schedule, but Memphis has played a tougher schedule overall. Whatever wins we got in conference were balanced out by a ridiculous out of conference schedule.

If Pastner's win pct goes down in the Big East, it's because his overall SOS is going up.

Second, and again, I can't believe I'm having to spell this out, the Austin Peay team that beat you is now 9-18. Let that sink in. They're ranked #220 in Kenpom. Teams that have managed to beat them at their own arena, which UT could not, include:

Memphis (by 31 pts)
Lipscomb
Bowling Green
Eastern Kentucky
Morehead St.
SE Missouri St.
Tenn. St.

During Pastner's time at Memphis, the worst team he's lost to at home was a 19-13 Tulsa team ranked 90th in kenpom. No sense ragging Pastner about a loss to UTEP when that UTEP team is better than the following SEC teams (according to Kenpom):

Auburn
South Carolina
Georgia
LSU
Mississippi
Arkansas
Tennessee
Mississippi State

Also, where do you get that Memphis was the 10th best team in the nation and UT was the 180th this season? Seem like pretty arbitrary numbers.
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We aren't talking this season genius.

When UTEP beat Memphis by 39 Memphis was preseason 8, and got beat by a team that at the time was more than 40 spots different in rpi.

When we played AP this season we were around 180 rpi, and they were around 190, is that that hard to understand?

Tennessee was bad and lost to a bad team, pretty typical, but no not acceptable.

Memphis a supposedly good team got destroyed by a MUCH worse team, it happens but not typically.

We have since raised our rpi and so that loss looks even worse, but for where we were ranked at that time and how we were playing, it wasn't that big of an upset.

The 30 point drubbing by UTEP was a big time upset my friend.

And FWIW I don't see SOS going up much once you join because clearly joshy poo is too scared now to play ooc teams. So I'd look for SOS to stay about the same and his win % to plummet as the downfall of Memphis begins.
 
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