Duke/UNC Official Thread 2021/2022 (K’s Last Hurrah Edition)

#926
#926
RDU VOL#14 said:
That’s true, but it’s not a glaring difference. Duke won in 2001. Roy won in 05 with Doh’s guys and then he had Hansbrough for 4 years when they won in 09. Duke then won it in 2010 and 2015, Roy won in 2017. Since then both teams have been up and down. Both have missed the tournament (you guys don’t get out of the technicality of 2020). I’d say they’re pretty similar.
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They're similar, but Carolina has been better. That 2001 title for Duke was before Roy returned to Carolina. It also falls outside your last 20 year timeframe, BTW. Carolina has more national championships in the last 20 years. They're both elite programs, but Carolina has had the slight edge since Roy Williams returned to Carolina.
 
#927
#927
Vol423 said:
Is the objective to stack up recruiting accolades and be able to point to a slew of one-and-done players, or is it to make Final Fours and win national championships?
The fact of the matter is that Duke's program was better before Coach K started bringing in all of these one-and-done players. I've had conversations with my dad and a number of friends that I could actually see Duke's program improving over the next 4-8 years under Scheyer as a result of a tail-off of the recruitment of one-and-done players. They could actually start playing cohesive team basketball again. There is no way that Scheyer will be able to manage the egos of one-and-done players as well as Coach K. Even Coach K's results, while still impressive, were not as good in the one-and-done era.
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2007-2009 was as close to multi-year irrelevance as Duke got under K, and Duke has been as successful in the one-and-done era as anyone but Villanova. The point is to bring in the best players to put together the best teams, not miss out on all the top guys and claim you didn’t want them anyway
 
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#928
#928
NashVol11 said:
UNC tries and fails to get those same one and dones, so then they turn it into “well you better win the national title or you’re a failure” and hope no one notices
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Those media expectations have really been taking a toll on Duke fans lol…The fact of the matter is even with all of those one and dones UNC has had more success the past 10 years. You guys keep racking up those recruiting national titles though since they mean so much
 
#929
#929
RDU VOL#14 said:
That’s true, but it’s not a glaring difference. Duke won in 2001. Roy won in 05 with Doh’s guys and then he had Hansbrough for 4 years when they won in 09. Duke then won it in 2010 and 2015, Roy won in 2017. Since then both teams have been up and down. Both have missed the tournament (you guys don’t get out of the technicality of 2020). I’d say they’re pretty similar.
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Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with a fan of the University of New Jersey - Durham. Roy was 18-22 vs Dook at UNC, so 2 games below .500. Both programs have had NCs while Roy was there. There is no indication either program has dominated the other in recent years.
 
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#930
#930
Vol423 said:
They're similar, but Carolina has been better. That 2001 title for Duke was before Roy returned to Carolina. It also falls outside your last 20 year timeframe, BTW. Carolina has more national championships in the last 20 years. They're both elite programs, but Carolina has had the slight edge since Roy Williams returned to Carolina.
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Should have stopped at “they’re similar”, Carolina also has 8 seasons with double digit losses in that timeframe and Duke has 3. We all follow basketball and know who has actually had a good team every year
 
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#931
#931
VolInNW said:
You are absolutely correct. He is neither. He just gives, gives, gives, never takes, and is focused on improving Dook basketball, Dook University, and the human race in general. Unlike every other Power 5 college coach, he is not driven by pride or ego, and is darned near a saint. Dook was lucky to have a pure altruist and beautiful soul like K, and the world is just a little darker since he has retired.

Good grief. While the above was fun to type, I have neither the time nor the inclination to scour the interwebs for specific incidences you would find acceptable and debate ad nauseum whether a successful P5 coach is driven by ego. You find K to be a gentle soul and shaper of young men, unmotivated by ego or personal desire. I do not. Let's just leave it there.
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As I've stated before, I honestly don't see the point. Coach K was a great coach. Roy Williams was a great coach. Dean Smith was a great coach. I'm sure all 3 had huge egos. None of them are saints. We're all flawed. That doesn't make them bad men. I would say that the good things that all 3 men have done in their lives far outweighed the bad.
 
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#932
#932
Voltime123 said:
Those media expectations have really been taking a toll on Duke fans lol…The fact of the matter is even with all of those one and dones UNC has had more success the past 10 years. You guys keep racking up those recruiting national titles though since they mean so much
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It has nothing to do with media expectations, I’m talking about you saying one and dones and defense were Duke’s problems, which will still be wrong no matter how many times you say “the fact of the matter is”
 
#933
#933
NashVol11 said:
It has nothing to do with media expectations, I’m talking about you saying one and dones and defense were Duke’s problems, which will still be wrong no matter how many times you say “the fact of the matter is”
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I’m not wrong though experience trumps inexperience, grabbing a roster full of one and done players hasn’t worked in winning a title in a while. The past 5 years the teams who have one it all have a balance of both
 
#934
#934
Vol423 said:
As I've stated before, I honestly don't see the point. Coach K was a great coach. Roy Williams was a great coach. Dean Smith was a great coach. I'm sure all 3 had huge egos. None of them are saints. We're all flawed. That doesn't make them bad men. I would say that the good things that all 3 men have done in their lives far outweighed the bad.
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I could not agree more. This arose when discussing K's motivations behind his farewell tour. Frankly, I'm bored with the topic, but some folks will not let it rest until the man is canonized.
 
#935
#935
Voltime123 said:
Those media expectations have really been taking a toll on Duke fans lol…The fact of the matter is even with all of those one and dones UNC has had more success the past 10 years. You guys keep racking up those recruiting national titles though since they mean so much
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How many National Titles does Carolina have the last 10 years? That’s right 1 . Same as Duke.
 
#936
#936
Voltime123 said:
I’m not wrong though experience trumps inexperience, grabbing a roster full of one and done players hasn’t worked in winning a title in a while. The past 5 years the teams who have one it all have a balance of both
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Lol what about immediately before those 5? There are two programs most associated with one and done and both have won a national title doing it. Using the fact that the field wins a 68-team tournament over Kentucky and Duke (which happens the vast majority of the time anyway) as some proof that one and done doesn’t work is some pretty dubious confirmation bias
 
#940
#940
RDU VOL#14 said:
I’ve been told by someone close to the situation that Love is gone. That obviously can change, but that’s what I was told.
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We’ll see. I’ve thought all along that he’d be the most likely to leave after this season, and he still might, but he has plenty of stuff to improve on and improve his draft stock if he comes back.

In a related note, Dawson Garcia won’t be back. He’s back in the portal and wants to go back closer to home.
 
#941
#941
Regulator said:
We’ll see. I’ve thought all along that he’d be the most likely to leave after this season, and he still might, but he has plenty of stuff to improve on and improve his draft stock if he comes back.

In a related note, Dawson Garcia won’t be back. He’s back in the portal and wants to go back closer to home.
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I figured Garcia was out after leaving .
 
#944
#944
VolInNW said:
You are absolutely correct. He is neither. He just gives, gives, gives, never takes, and is focused on improving Dook basketball, Dook University, and the human race in general. Unlike every other Power 5 college coach, he is not driven by pride or ego, and is darned near a saint. Dook was lucky to have a pure altruist and beautiful soul like K, and the world is just a little darker since he has retired.

Good grief. While the above was fun to type, I have neither the time nor the inclination to scour the interwebs for specific incidences you would find acceptable and debate ad nauseum whether a successful P5 coach is driven by ego. You find K to be a gentle soul and shaper of young men, unmotivated by ego or personal desire. I do not. Let's just leave it there.
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Powerful examples. Thanks for proving my point.
 
#945
#945
Volfan8282 said:
Powerful examples. Thanks for proving my point.
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Your point being you're not able to see K as anything other than a humble man and shaper of souls, unmotivated by such gross human traits as ego and pride????

Yes, I believe I did.
 
#946
#946
RDU VOL#14 said:
He may change his mind.
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Frankly, if UNC returns everyone I see them as a solid top 20, Top 15 type team next season. They just caught lightning in a bottle in the tourney. It was a fun run, and included a sweet win over UNJ-Durham, but I doubt they are NC contenders next year.
 
#947
#947
VolInNW said:
Frankly, if UNC returns everyone I see them as a solid top 20, Top 15 type team next season. They just caught lightning in a bottle in the tourney. It was a fun run, and included a sweet win over UNJ-Durham, but I doubt they are NC contenders next year.
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I hope you’re right 👍
 
#948
#948
VolInNW said:
Your point being you're not able to see K as anything other than a humble man and shaper of souls, unmotivated by such gross human traits as ego and pride????

Yes, I believe I did.
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I go off facts, not feelings. I asked for you to provide facts or examples of K being super egotistical since I thought you’d have them on the tip of your tongue. But, alas, you’re making crap up which we all knew.
 
#949
#949
What does UNC have coming in as freshmen or through the transfer portal? Bacot, Love, and Davis is a solid trio. Are Trimble and Washington worthy of going into the rotation immediately?
 
#950
#950
Volfan8282 said:
I go off facts, not feelings. I asked for you to provide facts or examples of K being super egotistical since I thought you’d have them on the tip of your tongue. But, alas, you’re making crap up which we all knew.
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Wow. You're a nasty little snot, arent you?? I've made my point, and I have tried to end our dispute on a reasonable basis and you refuse.

If you refuse to see the ego in the man, so be it. I note no one else in here is disputing that K has a healthy ego except for you. And I am tired of debating the point. If you take that as proof of K's sainthood, then good for you, sport.
 
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