Econ 101 for Presidential Candidates (and VN) - CATO

#151
#151
Vol8188 said:
Is this how this works? I ask you a question and then you respond with more questions? Why do you believe you have a right to tell me who I can and cannot hire? We should all be allowed to associate freely.

And outside of countries who we've destroyed, who in the Middle East has open borders?
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Because whether you like it or not, we are a country with laws and its the best country on Earth. If you disagree, then why are you here?
 
#152
#152
Definition of free market courtesy of Investopedia.

What is a 'Free Market'
The free market is a summary description of all voluntary exchanges that take place in a given economic environment. Free markets are characterized by a spontaneous and decentralized order of arrangements through which individuals make economic decisions. Based on its political and legal rules, a country’s free market economy may range between very large or entirely black market.



Read more: Free Market Definition | Investopedia Free Market Definition | Investopedia
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#153
#153
Vol8188 said:
They're not paying taxes because of the current system. We are clearly not talking about the current system, but a free market system.

So if they were paying taxes, why do you believe you have a right to tell someone who they can or cannot hire?
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Wow. You really dont understand how economics work in this country.
 
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#154
#154
BigOrangeTrain said:
Because whether you like it or not, we are a country with laws and its the best country on Earth. If you disagree, then why are you here?
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Because I disagree with some laws I should leave? Are you claiming to personally support every single law in this nation?

I never claimed we should have 0 laws. Only that the main objective of any government should be to protect the freedoms of its citizens, not to take them. So if you support any law that limits freedom, you should have a damn good reason.

I've yet to hear that damn good reason.
 
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#156
#156
Vol8188 said:
But why? Why do you support limiting the freedoms of other Americans?

Why should I not be allowed to hire anyone I want? It's my business, why do you believe you should have any say in it?
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To begin. I have ZERO faith in the stupid, idiotic, non-starter, ill conceived Non Agression Principle.

Monsters are in all walks of life. I don't know you aren't one by my definitions. And you don't don't have to be a monster to just be a manipulative SOB who wants to use people to the maximum he can for personal gain or just because he gets grins out of it. Got a brother AND a cousin like that.

You may be the monster illegally hiring, or it may be a monster that's the illegal alien. By definition, the illegal is a wanton criminal. He knew and knows he's breaking laws. Someone like that is much much more likely to slide into abject criminality.

"Your business" has to have a liscense to operate in any jurisdiction in the United States. Do you have your liscense? Or is that a law you're not OK with either?

After this, I'm done here. This Socratic BS you're attempting sits ill.
 
#157
#157
Orangedogsrule said:
To begin. I have ZERO faith in the stupid, idiotic, non-starter, ill conceived Non Agression Principle.

Monsters are in all walks of life. I don't know you aren't one by my definitions. And you don't don't have to be a monster to just be a manipulative SOB who wants to use people to the maximum he can for personal gain or just because he gets grins out of it. Got a brother AND a cousin like that.

You may be the monster illegally hiring, or it may be a monster that's the illegal alien. By definition, the illegal is a wanton criminal. He knew and knows he's breaking laws. Someone like that is much much more likely to slide into abject criminality.

"Your business" has to have a liscense to operate in any jurisdiction in the United States. Do you have your liscense? Or is that a law you're not OK with either?

After this, I'm done here. This Socratic BS you're attempting sits ill.
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When you say "some people are monsters therefore I don't believe in the NAP", it makes me assume you don't understand the NAP.

What's wrong with someone wanting to maximize their personal gain? Isn't that a big of part of what encourages people to learn and work?

Business licensing is one of the biggest killers of jobs in this country. I was going to start a distillery in NC when I got out of the service with some money I saved from deployments. To be licensed alone was 10,000.

But you've still not answered why we need immigration laws.
 
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#158
#158
Why should businesses need a license? I should be able to freely buy, sell, and trade anything that I own.
 
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#162
#162
FLVOL69 said:
Ok Craigslist then..😂
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Why should starting a business be any more complicated than it is to post on Craigslist or set up a booth at the flea market?

Those are the types of laws that are killing jobs in this country. But continue on with your ignorant ideas of building walls and raising taxes on imports to "save jobs", that's totally going to work.
 
#163
#163
Vol8188 said:
Why should starting a business be any more complicated than it is to post on Craigslist or set up a booth at the flea market?

Those are the types of laws that are killing jobs in this country. But continue on with your ignorant ideas of building walls and raising taxes on imports to "save jobs", that's totally going to work.
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Maybe you could ask the ass clown whos about to get booted out of office. Trump believes in deregulation and border security. You lower corporate taxes and they'll stay here in addition to new industry. The only ignorance is from your side who believes in open ****ing borders! Do you lock your car and your trailer at night sparky?
 
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#164
#164
FLVOL69 said:
Maybe you could ask the ass clown whos about to get booted out of office. Trump believes in deregulation and border security. You lower corporate taxes and they'll stay here in addition to new industry. The only ignorance is from your side who believes in open ****ing borders! Do you lock your car and your trailer at night sparky?
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For the record:

Border control and tariffs are both regulations that cost jobs. Neither are "deregulation". And those are those of his most prominent policies.

Idk how many times you guys will make the same stupid argument about locking your doors. Open borders does not negate private property rights, it actually serves to increase private property rights. No one is advocating that illegal immigrants should be allowed to break into your home.
 
#165
#165
Vol8188 said:
For the record:

Border control and tariffs are both regulations that cost jobs. Neither are "deregulation". And those are those of his most prominent policies.

Idk how many times you guys will make the same stupid argument about locking your doors. Open borders does not negate private property rights, it actually serves to increase private property rights. No one is advocating that illegal immigrants should be allowed to break into your home.
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Gotta secure the damn border, we won't need tariffs if we have a ****ing 15% corporate tax rate, manufacturers will want to stay in this ****ing country why can't you understand that ?
 
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#166
#166
Vol8188 said:
When you say "some people are monsters therefore I don't believe in the NAP", it makes me assume you don't understand the NAP.
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You know what they say about assuming something. There are a great many who would roar with laughter and anticipatory glee were a government installed based on the NAP.

https://www.libertarianism.org/blog/six-reasons-libertarians-should-reject-non-aggression-principle

What's wrong with someone wanting to maximize their personal gain? Isn't that a big of part of what encourages people to learn and work?
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There is no foul as long as you aren't lying to employees, consumers, polluting, or just generally breaking laws you don't like to do so.


Business licensing is one of the biggest killers of jobs in this country. I was going to start a distillery in NC when I got out of the service with some money I saved from deployments. To be licensed alone was 10,000.
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So it sounds like you weren't prepared or your business plan would have all fed, state, and local liscensing procedures and costs accounted for.

Federal, state, and local regulations make opening a craft distillery a long process.

Business liscensing helps protect the average sucker born every minute from predatory and/or incompetant capitalists. They also protect people already in business from underfunded &/or incompetant owners producing rediculously low quality product and giving a whole industry a black eye. As I recall that was the EXACT reasons Tennessee imposed high liscensing fees on the fledgling moonshine industry a few years ago.


But you've still not answered why we need immigration laws.
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To keep the worst of the riff raff out. Some of my ancestors, legal immigrants all, were riff raff when they came here. Some were not. We all have kings and horse thieves in our ancestory. But they were legal, and they participated in the building of this nation. Being a citizen of America is participatory.

As an aside. One ancestor, in Cleveland Ohio, was a metalworker who helped build and maintain the piping and copper kettles etc. for a distillery there. His wife and daughter took in laundry.
 
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#167
#167
FLVOL69 said:
Gotta secure the damn border, we won't need tariffs if we have a ****ing 15% corporate tax rate, manufacturers will want to stay in this ****ing country why can't you understand that ?
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What are you claiming I don't understand? I don't support corporate taxes, not even trumps 15% rate.

And we don't need tariffs either way. Even with a 99% or 0% corporate tax rate, tariffs and border control are still not things that save jobs.

And why do we have to secure the border?
 
#168
#168
Orangedogsrule said:
You know what they say about assuming something. There are a great many who would roar with laughter and anticipatory glee were a government installed based on the NAP.

https://www.libertarianism.org/blog/six-reasons-libertarians-should-reject-non-aggression-principle



There is no foul as long as you aren't lying to employees, consumers, polluting, or just generally breaking laws you don't like to do so.




So it sounds like you weren't prepared or your business plan would have all fed, state, and local liscensing procedures and costs accounted for.

Federal, state, and local regulations make opening a craft distillery a long process.

Business liscensing helps protect the average sucker born every minute from predatory and/or incompetant capitalists. They also protect people already in business from underfunded &/or incompetant owners producing rediculously low quality product and giving a whole industry a black eye. As I recall that was the EXACT reasons Tennessee imposed high liscensing fees on the fledgling moonshine industry a few years ago.

To keep the riff raff out.
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"Hey look, I found a link! Clearly this proves I understand the NAP!"

You've still not stated your issue with the NAP beyond "some people are monsters!"

I like how your socialist ass uses "capitalist" as if it's a bad thing. If the product is poor, people won't buy it. So your claim that we need business licenses to prevent people from producing poor products is just completely ****ing stupid. If the product is poor, the business will fail. That's how free markets (which you clearly oppose) work.

As far as your claim that I hadn't done my homework and prepared, how do you think I found out about licensing fee? Oooo yeah, because I was preparing!
 
#169
#169
Orangedogsrule said:
Business liscensing helps protect the average sucker born every minute from predatory and/or incompetant capitalists. They also protect people already in business from underfunded &/or incompetant owners producing rediculously low quality product and giving a whole industry a black eye. As I recall that was the EXACT reasons Tennessee imposed high liscensing fees on the fledgling moonshine industry a few years ago.
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Yeah that's why we had Bernie Madoff, Enron, WorldCom, Fannie Mae, Health south, Tyco,etc. Btw, what was the name of that company that was selling lead poisoned water to the citizens of Flint, MI? Tell us about the SEC having knowledge of the house of cards the banks were sitting on alleviating the 2008 financial crises. How about the savings & loans debacle in the 80's?
 
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#170
#170
Vol8188 said:
"Hey look, I found a link! Clearly this proves I understand the NAP!"

The article is true. You just won't admit it.
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You've still not stated your issue with the NAP beyond "some people are monsters!"
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The fricking article makes
the case very well. The fricking NAP falls apart in the real world. But you. You want to live in looney toon land where Mizes is bowed down to each night.

The effing NAP is an effing non starter. Your whole jizz about my issue with stopping conscienceless sociopaths (monsters) from abusing, using, & ruining who ever and when ever they can can not nor ever can be adequately be addressed by the NAP

I like how your socialist ass uses "capitalist" as if it's a bad thing.
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I'm a consertive leaning centrist by every possible measure. Say I don't understand the NAP and then call me a socialist. AS IF you really understand.

If the product is poor, people won't buy it. So your claim that we need business licenses to prevent people from producing poor products is just completely ****ing stupid. If the product is poor, the business will fail. That's how free markets (which you clearly oppose) work.
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I won't even give you any satisfaction on this one. Go down to your local small business incubator and ask them why we have business liscenses.

And I know I damn sure oppose your definition of free markets.

As far as your claim that I hadn't done my homework and prepared, how do you think I found out about licensing fee? Oooo yeah, because I was preparing!
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So your were so angstery that you quit right there? Oooo yeah, sooo sorry. Hadta get a licence and that was the end of that.
 
#172
#172
Look 8188, we obviously have no common ground. Life's too short and your too angry. Consequently, you get the honor of being the 2nd person I've blocked.
 
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#173
#173
Orangedogsrule said:
You know what they say about assuming something. There are a great many who would roar with laughter and anticipatory glee were a government installed based on the NAP.

https://www.libertarianism.org/blog/six-reasons-libertarians-should-reject-non-aggression-principle



There is no foul as long as you aren't lying to employees, consumers, polluting, or just generally breaking laws you don't like to do so.




So it sounds like you weren't prepared or your business plan would have all fed, state, and local liscensing procedures and costs accounted for.

Federal, state, and local regulations make opening a craft distillery a long process.

Business liscensing helps protect the average sucker born every minute from predatory and/or incompetant capitalists. They also protect people already in business from underfunded &/or incompetant owners producing rediculously low quality product and giving a whole industry a black eye. As I recall that was the EXACT reasons Tennessee imposed high liscensing fees on the fledgling moonshine industry a few years ago.




To keep the worst of the riff raff out. Some of my ancestors, legal immigrants all, were riff raff when they came here. Some were not. We all have kings and horse thieves in our ancestory. But they were legal, and they participated in the building of this nation. Being a citizen of America is participatory.

As an aside. One ancestor, in Cleveland Ohio, was a metalworker who helped build and maintain the piping and copper kettles etc. for a distillery there. His wife and daughter took in laundry.
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I forgot to respond to the most important part of your response. The "riff raff" part. You cannot keep riff raff out. Riff Raff is born here. No amount of vetting will prevent more from coming in. It's inevitable. I'm just asking that you stop wasting my money and the money of others fighting a losing battle.

If they harm another person, charge them. But you're not going to prevent riff raff from coming here, kind of like how you can't prevent people from owning guns. The only thing border control does is prevent the good people from come here (at least the ones who can't afford the long process). Similar to how gun laws only prevent good people from having guns. The riff raff will come either way.

The majority of people coming here though will be those looking for jobs. Because if you are looking to commit serious crimes, why wouldn't you stay in the corrupt countries of south and central America with insane murder rates?
 
#174
#174
Vol8188 said:
You compare free market capitalism to slavery? Everyone should be able to freely negotiate their own wage. They're not slaves, they're the only ones who are truly free.

Why should anyone be "documented"?
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You mean like the current state of the EU? Take a look at how it's working for them.
 
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