Eight years and no titles...

#126
#126
Using your throwback ranking system allvol, I guess you noticed that UT would have zero SEC c-ships in the past five years. Five years is a complete recruiting cycle +1 and I mention it becuase that seems to be generally accepted timeframe within which newly hired coaches are expected to produce results or hit the road.
 
#127
#127
Fact of the matter is we dont judge sec champions that way anymore. We judge them by the way the current system is set up...which shows that Fulmer has come up short since '98.
 
#128
#128
Forget Fulmer. I'm sticking up for the Vols here. When I talk with other fans from other schools, that is where I come from. I live in a very diverse area regarding football fans.

Some judge by championships, however, overall results can be judged as well. Tennessee has not gone more than 3 seasons without finishing at the top of the SEC East standings. However, in the past 5 seasons... as you indicated... the Vols have only finished at the top twice.

I can't and won't defend a 5-6 season.... but I will defend the Vols after a 9-3 season.

Go Vols!
 
#131
#131
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I just don't like Fulmer as HC of UT football. Plain and simple. When he is gone I will rejoice.
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Just out of curiosity, this time next year, if the Vols are 11-1 and headed toward the SEC championship, will you feel the same way? Or maybe a better question is, had Leak's blow to the head not been called, and had Russell's fumble gone to the Vols, and UT won both games, and Tennessee is heading to Atlanta for a rematch with Arkansas and a chance at the NC game, do you still feel the same way?

Keep in mind, I am not excusing those losses by blaming officials. I am simply curious as to how two hair's breadth calls affect your opinion ofFulmer's coaching skills.
 
#132
#132
cotton said:
Just out of curiosity, this time next year, if the Vols are 11-1 and headed toward the SEC championship, will you feel the same way? Or maybe a better question is, had Leak's blow to the head not been called, and had Russell's fumble gone to the Vols, and UT won both games, and Tennessee is heading to Atlanta for a rematch with Arkansas and a chance at the NC game, do you still feel the same way?

Keep in mind, I am not excusing those losses by blaming officials. I am simply curious as to how two hair's breadth calls affect your opinion ofFulmer's coaching skills.
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I would assume those types of calls even out and under his 5 year plan, a $2 million dollar coach would have a title, no excuses.
 
#133
#133
I expect to win all game every season.... however I am realistic enough to know that it is very difficult for any team... much less a team in the SEC to go undefeated. I believe there have only been 3 undefeated teams from the SEC since 1992.

But yes, I will always defend the Vols..... even against other Vols fans.

GO VOLS!!
 
#134
#134
Winning percentages of coaches making >$2 million for the past 6 seasons except for Tressel/Franchione/Carroll (2001 to 2006)

Highest paid to lowest paid:
  1. Stoops .857
  2. Ferentz .628
  3. Carroll .853
  4. Brown .841
  5. Tuberville .738
  6. Fulmer .701
  7. Tressel .827
  8. Franchione .583
  9. Beamer .764

Four of the nine (Stoops, Tressel, Carroll, and Brown) have Natl. Titles in past 6 years.
All but Fulmer, Ferentz and Franchione have at least one conference title in the past 6 years. (maybe there's a jinx to coaches with names starting with F making $2 mil)
Fulmer has third worst winning percentage followed only by Ferentz and Franchione
 
#135
#135
Cotton, if CPF wins the SEC next year I will shut the heck up about him. For now I am living in the present and looking at how long it's been since he delivered the goods and it's just been waaayyy too long IMO. I do not want five more years of mediocrity so Fulmer can try to prove he's still got it.
 
#136
#136
Or maybe a better question is, had Leak's blow to the head not been called, and had Russell's fumble gone to the Vols, and UT won both games
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We can take it the other way. What if Ainge throws his fourth pick instead of a td against bama? Or those two tipped balls dont fall our way against sc? Or if Kentucky converts one of their red zone drives? Or we dont stop air force ( air freaking force!) on the 2-point conversion?

Often games dont come down to just one single play. That call against Leak had nothing to do with our -11 rushing yards. And we wouldnt have been sweating out lsu's last drive if our offense could have stayed on the field for more 18 minutes...or if we could have stopped Russell from running on us.
 
#137
#137
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Okla, I tend to agree with you although I said well before the season began that I would refrain from calling for Fulmer's ouster during the upcoming offseason if he could go 10-2 during the regualr season. I felt like that was fair mark of achievement. And yes, I do think there is a huge difference between 9-3 and 10-2 so I am not going put my soapbox away. Anyone who disagrees with that should wait and see where LSU winds up for a bowl game and in the final rankings.

What really ticks me off is when people like volbreaker there above, and other people, constantly hurl insults and question whether someone is really a UT fan just because people want to see some changes. For all those people know they have say next to me at Neyland.
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Thrown plenty myself. Just look at my response to "one word to describe the season"....."fourth"....and many others. I am not a fan of Fulmer. I am a fan ofthe vols. I just think your timing, the way you do it, and what you say sound like someone from the other side. If so.....kudos. If not....I sure would'nt want to know you. I'm telling you... archive search me and you'll see. No "unnatural attraction", regard for (outside of being a fellow vol), or dillusion of coaching greatness here.
10-3 and a winning note on new years day is an acomplishment...PERIOD. The college fball world has changed. Nobody will be king of the hill for too long, but there are very few who can be more proud than we can of our Vols. PLEASE JUST DON'T TAKE ME BACK TO THE MAJORS YEARS....or the Battle years,ect.
 
#138
#138
I fully understand people being impatient for another conference title. But sometimes I wonder if people ever notice how long other teams have gone between titles. We're only about 4 years removed from a time when it had been 15 years or more since Georgia, Auburn and LSU had won the SEC. Heck, it's been 6 years since Florida won anything. In the age of the SECCG, it's just not that easy.

Does that mean we shouldn't expect to win titles? No. All I'm saying is have a little perspective. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about the program, but the "we haven't won a title in X years" argument is one of the weaker ones IMO.
 
#139
#139
GAVol said:
I fully understand people being impatient for another conference title. But sometimes I wonder if people ever notice how long other teams have gone between titles. We're only about 4 years removed from a time when it had been 15 years or more since Georgia, Auburn and LSU had won the SEC. In the age of the SECCG, it's just not that easy.

Does that mean we shouldn't expect to win titles? No. All I'm saying is have a little perspective.
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quit being reasonable:p
 
#141
#141
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Cotton, if CPF wins the SEC next year I will shut the heck up about him. For now I am living in the present and looking at how long it's been since he delivered the goods and it's just been waaayyy too long IMO. I do not want five more years of mediocrity so Fulmer can try to prove he's still got it.
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I think that is a fair perspective, although one I don't view the same way.

The way I see it, the coaching job this year has actually been pretty good. After a 5-6 season last year, I don't think it was a surprise to anyone that we wouldn't dominate the conference. If you want to knock the "state of the program," and who is responsible for getting us to 5-6. I think that is a fair criticism, and although I am willing to forgive, for the time being, I understand those that are not.

Still, given where we were a year ago at this time, and given the group of guys we had coming into this season, the coaches have gotten alot out of a team that could not match up in the trenches with the conference elite, and in this conference, there are several of the elite.

I think next year will be very telling about whether Fulmer can rebuild the program back to it's championship ways. The conference will be as tough as this year, and we have some question marks. The margin between the BCS and 9-3 is as thin as Russell's fumble or Leak's blow to the head, but elite teams are on the right side of that margin (see--UF against Vandy and SC, Arkansas against Vandy and Bama, LSU against Ole Miss.) I think Phil can get us there, specifically with Cut back on the staff, but I do agree that he should do it sooner rather than later.

Patience doth not forever last.
 
#142
#142
VolunteerHillbilly said:
First of all, I am not one of the people who attacks Fulmer personally.
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You just lost EVERY bit of your credibility.

Critiquing his coaching ability is not a personal attack.
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Never said it was.

Also, IMO you'd serve your cause better if you limit your defense of CPF to his coaching record instead of making personal attacks on everyone who you disagree with.
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I make personal attacks toward VERY few people. The only ones that I do, are ones that personally mention me, or personally attack Phil. I will NOT allow someone to personally attack him. It's what friends do. Get over it.

Whether you like it or not I am a UT fan. I will be one until the day I die and if the Lord allows me to care about cfb in the hereafter I will be one for all eternity. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.
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Never have said it did. Quite the contrary. I have said multiple times that I believe there are different kinds of fans and that those differences are certainly allowed. I have said that I believe the NegaVols are fans that have a disconnect with the University, either geographically or in some other way (fan of other teams growing up, or fans of other teams in other sports). It's a lot easier to be critical when it isn't something that takes up most of your life. It's a lot easier to be critical when you have that disconnect and for the most part, I believe those that are Negative here, have a disconnect. It doesn't make them any less, just different.
 
#143
#143
I don't think it's a disconnect necessarily. I'm probably as disconnected as you can be and I don't tend to view things that way.

IMO some people just have that opinion and they are going to be the loudest. It's just the way it is.
 
#145
#145
OrangeSquare said:
I make personal attacks toward VERY few people. The only ones that I do, are ones that personally mention me, or personally attack Phil. I will NOT allow someone to personally attack him. It's what friends do. Get over it.
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So tell me, has Phil somehow sanctioned you to be the person who defends his honor on Internet message boards?
 
#146
#146
As a former Fulmer player i must say it is disheartening to think that people think you are going to win championships in x amount of years that never played college football. It is unpredictable just like recruiting and just like the draft. You don't know what you got until play it out. Coach has always put it all out there for his players. There are plenty of coaches that go lifetimes without even one championship conference or otherwise and they are not put under this much scrutiny. This is a game for men. Some win and MORE lose. Throughing money to some new coach that no one knows what to expect is not the answer. ask Alabama, Texas A&M or Iowa about that. You see poeple outside the program judge you by wins and loses and that is important. how bout winning with a ton of important injuries or still being considered one of the best even after 3 losses. You don't see any player crying. Maybe those complainers would feel better if the went to watch one of those little league baseball games with no score keeping where every kid gets a hit and gets to score. sorry this is TN football. Learn to live with it. Phil has done more for this program than any body since the General left us.
 
#148
#148
pdiddy said:
As a former Fulmer player i must say it is disheartening to think that people think you are going to win championships in x amount of years that never played college football. It is unpredictable just like recruiting and just like the draft. You don't know what you got until play it out. Coach has always put it all out there for his players. There are plenty of coaches that go lifetimes without even one championship conference or otherwise and they are not put under this much scrutiny. This is a game for men. Some win and MORE lose. Throughing money to some new coach that no one knows what to expect is not the answer. ask Alabama, Texas A&M or Iowa about that. You see poeple outside the program judge you by wins and loses and that is important. how bout winning with a ton of important injuries or still being considered one of the best even after 3 losses. You don't see any player crying. Maybe those complainers would feel better if the went to watch one of those little league baseball games with no score keeping where every kid gets a hit and gets to score. sorry this is TN football. Learn to live with it. Phil has done more for this program than any body since the General left us.
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pd, I believe the sincerity of your post but I would ask that you try and take a step back. Imagine that you never were a cfb player and you did not have a personal relationship with Coach Fulmer. Then consider his salary and his recent results in comparison to the recent results of other coaches who make that much money. I think that if people are honest about the comparisons and look at it as a simple business decision it's pretty clear that UT is paying Coach Fulmer more for what he has done in the past than what he is doing now. Like you said, it's long past the no score tee-ball stage. Alot of fans have a heavy emotional and economic investment in the program and no one wants to feel like they made a bad investment. That said, I am probably done complaining about Fulmer for awhile. It's getting old and I'm tired of being insulted just because I would like to see UT football be great again.
 
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