Electric Vehicles

#3,202
#3,202
hog88 said:
If this becomes a widely used fuel the transfer process would have to be tightly controlled and spillage would have to be captured otherwise our streams, rivers and oceans will become dead zones of low dissolved oxygen. We see the effects of diesel exhaust fluid now.
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Very valid point DEF is basically ammonia I believe.
 
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#3,208
#3,208
UT-Rex said:
Can't do what ? Recuperation, is what we're talking about, and one certainly Can (so, if you're arguing with the Pepsi rep, then take it to him << I was simply quoting him in the context of the efficiency, practicality and success rate of Pepsi's initial trial).

In context of Donner Pass / steep approach from the east = steep return from the west,

this seems to be the notion (where "zero out" may be an exaggeration on Pepsi's part):

"The higher the braking proportion, the higher the recuperation."

As for our family's Bolt, we're seeing 320 miles total range VS factory 260 (<< likely, as best we can tell, this is a result of RB).

If a semi-fleet can achieve a 10-20% gain-on-range from recuperation by RB (especially Local/Around Town routes), then I suspect that would be of great benefit.
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Of course, regenerative braking is real, makes sense, and turns what would be wasted heating during braking into valuable stored energy. It is one of the best things EVs have to offer. It still involves the conversion of mechanical energy to stored energy, and it's likely not more than 70% efficient which is still very good. The point I was making is that with losses: rolling friction, aerodynamic drag, and conversion loss, there is no way you can go uphill and regain all that coming back down. If you are talking something like a simple pendulum in a clock, potential energy at the top provides the kinetic energy to push past center to the other top, and the process repeats with decreasing peaks until the pendulum stops; there are inevitable losses in mechanical and aerodynamic friction - just a fact of life. Thermodynamics says you can't get something for nothing and you can't eliminate losses associated with a process.
 
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#3,209
#3,209
LouderVol said:
Right so they can run routes where the downhill part just so happens to equal out all the energy lost on the rest of the route....

Unfortunately you have to have the energy to make it up the hill first, before you can enjoy any regenerative braking benefits on the way down. so their summation of the situation is a bit misleading. Gas powered vehicles also save a good bit of energy on the down hill portion so its not some new find for EVs. Gas powered vehicles can also make use of that tech.
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There are other factors involved on the trip down for both types of vehicles. Cops and momentum are big ones. You know on a steep grade with turns in a normal vehicle you will probably have to use brakes to avoid exceeding the tire's limits to keep the vehicle on the road ... or if you have a wife to keep calm in the car, and there's always the speed limit gotcha when you are coasting downhill with your foot off the accelerator. If regenerative braking is really pumped up, you might have to use the accelerator to keep up while going downhill; if it's moderate, brakes may still be required. Speed limits can have both positive and negative effects on energy use - and traffic control is pretty much always going to be a negative.
 
#3,210
#3,210
Orangeburst said:
typically what brand of pumps?
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You retired ... remember??? By the way, I have an apology of sorts for you. I've trashed marketing many times in VN forums - and I always will. I want you to know it has nothing whatsoever to do with guys like you who were on the road, knew the product, and helped the end user make informed decisions. As an engineer, I met enough of your colleagues from other companies and in other fields to know you are sometimes worth your weight in gold ... well, at least lead. However, the idiots who do commercials and ads, scheme up logos, colors, and slogans, and the ones who run the clown show supervising them should have been killed at birth.
 
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#3,211
#3,211
AM64 said:
You retired ... remember??? By the way, I have an apology of sorts for you. I've trashed marketing many times in VN forums - and I always will. I want you to know it has nothing whatsoever to do with guys like you who were on the road, knew the product, and helped the end user make informed decisions. As an engineer, I met enough of your colleagues from other companies and in other fields to know you are sometimes worth your weight in gold ... well, at least lead. However, the idiots who do commercials and ads, scheme up logos, colors, and slogans, and the ones who run the clown show supervising them should have been killed at birth.
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i know..just saw dollar signs but being Hog I would only make pennies off his cheap ass
 
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#3,212
#3,212
AM64 said:
You retired ... remember??? By the way, I have an apology of sorts for you. I've trashed marketing many times in VN forums - and I always will. I want you to know it has nothing whatsoever to do with guys like you who were on the road, knew the product, and helped the end user make informed decisions. As an engineer, I met enough of your colleagues from other companies and in other fields to know you are sometimes worth your weight in gold ... well, at least lead. However, the idiots who do commercials and ads, scheme up logos, colors, and slogans, and the ones who run the clown show supervising them should have been killed at birth.
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After 25 years I knew my ****. Even got into it with service techs who thought they knew more than a salesman.
 
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#3,214
#3,214
AM64 said:
Of course, regenerative braking is real, makes sense, and turns what would be wasted heating during braking into valuable stored energy. It is one of the best things EVs have to offer. It still involves the conversion of mechanical energy to stored energy, and it's likely not more than 70% efficient which is still very good. The point I was making is that with losses: rolling friction, aerodynamic drag, and conversion loss, there is no way you can go uphill and regain all that coming back down. If you are talking something like a simple pendulum in a clock, potential energy at the top provides the kinetic energy to push past center to the other top, and the process repeats with decreasing peaks until the pendulum stops; there are inevitable losses in mechanical and aerodynamic friction - just a fact of life. Thermodynamics says you can't get something for nothing and you can't eliminate losses associated with a process.
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The phrase that makes my skin crawl is “free energy”. It isn’t free. In fact it originated in the battery pack it’s going back into. It’s nice but it isn’t game changing. And in the ridiculous example provided for the semi a diesel tractor benefits from exactly the same gravity effect to “increase range” as louder pointed out. In fact on long downhill runs they’re using compression release brakes to ease the heat load on the brakes. It’s about as stupid of a cherry picked corner case example as you could chose and really hurts their credibility more than helps to anybody that has some physics knowledge
 
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#3,215
#3,215
NorthDallas40 said:
Yep of the current available technologies I think hybrids provide the best compromise. But they come with the downside of maintaining both power systems. They are the most complex design.

I still say the final solution of what is in development today are fuel cell vehicles. Same final drive of the battery EV but replaces the large battery pack with a much smaller battery pack and hydrogen fuel cell. And doesn’t require electric grid plug in. And is a true zero emissions vehicle. But hydrogen availability is holding it back currently.
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The better solution might be something along the form used in trains and ships. The engine, whether powered by gas, diesel, or hydrogen, might be used as a generator to keep the battery charged and to produce electric power for motors providing the motive force. That would take the best part of the EV and pair it with a means to keep it going over longer distances with more available fuel sources ... without hauling a trailer and a diesel generator.
 
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#3,216
#3,216
AM64 said:
The better solution might be something along the form used in trains and ships. The engine, whether powered by gas, diesel, or hydrogen, might be used as a generator to keep the battery charged and to produce electric power for motors providing the motive force. That would take the best part of the EV and pair it with a means to keep it going over longer distances with more available fuel sources ... without hauling a trailer and a diesel generator.
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That’s basically the fuel cell vehicle model. The cell handles mean energy rate draw and you lean on the battery for peaks and dump the lows back in via regen.
 
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#3,217
#3,217
AM64 said:
The better solution might be something along the form used in trains and ships. The engine, whether powered by gas, diesel, or hydrogen, might be used as a generator to keep the battery charged and to produce electric power for motors providing the motive force. That would take the best part of the EV and pair it with a means to keep it going over longer distances with more available fuel sources ... without hauling a trailer and a diesel generator.
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that is what the military is planning on using if not mistaken..tanks and such
 
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#3,218
#3,218
AM64 said:
You retired ... remember??? By the way, I have an apology of sorts for you. I've trashed marketing many times in VN forums - and I always will. I want you to know it has nothing whatsoever to do with guys like you who were on the road, knew the product, and helped the end user make informed decisions. As an engineer, I met enough of your colleagues from other companies and in other fields to know you are sometimes worth your weight in gold ... well, at least lead. However, the idiots who do commercials and ads, scheme up logos, colors, and slogans, and the ones who run the clown show supervising them should have been killed at birth.
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BTW, when I worked for IR, I was a Sales Engineer. Someone asked me one time if I was an Engineer, I said no, and he said how can you claim that. I said cause that is what they call me, pay me, and put on my business card..lol
 
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#3,219
#3,219
Orangeburst said:
BTW, when I worked for IR, I was a Sales Engineer. Someone asked me one time if I was an Engineer, I said no, and he said how can you claim that. I said cause that is what they call me, pay me, and put on my business card..lol
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It takes more than education to be a real engineer. I've seen plenty of guys without the education who I'd trust more than many "engineers" with the degree and without any meaningful experience. I think the gap is going to be even greater as we move into a world where kids never get the opportunity to take things apart and see how they work. The "feel" is something you don't get from a book; it's something you have to experience.
 
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#3,220
#3,220
AM64 said:
It takes more than education to be a real engineer. I've seen plenty of guys without the education who I'd trust more than many "engineers" with the degree and without any meaningful experience. I think the gap is going to be even greater as we move into a world where kids never get the opportunity to take things apart and see how they work. The "feel" is something you don't get from a book; it's something you have to experience.
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A lot of truth to this.
 
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#3,221
#3,221
AM64 said:
It takes more than education to be a real engineer. I've seen plenty of guys without the education who I'd trust more than many "engineers" with the degree and without any meaningful experience. I think the gap is going to be even greater as we move into a world where kids never get the opportunity to take things apart and see how they work. The "feel" is something you don't get from a book; it's something you have to experience.
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So damn true. I’ve work with some machinists and mech techs that run circles around a lot of mechanical designers especially on tooling.
 
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#3,225
#3,225
lawgator1 said:
Lease ordered a Model Y. Charger to be installed at my house next week. No word yet on delivery of vehicle. I'll post some photos once it is here.

Kept the 19 inch Gemini wheels but will replace the wheel covers to mimic the dark induction wheels, which look much better.
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Is the charger and installation included in the price of the car?
 
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