Electric Vehicles

[Gandalf]

I don't really care what the government says. That's obviously a load of crap and completely impossible, given the current availability of superchargers, electrical grid, and number of long-range drivers.

Yet oddly, they won’t build any new nuke plants. Had they just spent that $1 trillion hand out on 2000 new tech mini plants, instead of their corrupt friends, we would have nearly free electricity, it could be so cheap.

 

[UT-Rex]

Electric vehicles Struggle to Hold Up amid Heat Wave roasting US

Electric vehicle owners can expect to take on additional preparations as the summer months heat up and vehicle performance declines.

It’s been documented that cold weather has been proven to impact the range of electric vehicles, causing some cars to lose up to 35% of their range in freezing conditions, as shown in a study conducted by Recurrent Auto.

As temperatures rise, EV batteries tend to degrade faster than expected and require a battery replacement, a Recurrent Auto study from March indicates. Heat can affect the life of Lithium-ion batteries, which most plug-in hybrids and nearly all-electric vehicles use.

“Once you’re above [104 degrees Fahrenheit] you start to have a breakdown of the passive emission layer on the anode, and that breakdown will then cause consumption of the liquid electrolyte, which will shorten the lifetime of your battery,” Greg Less, the technical director of the University of Michigan Battery Lab told Recurrent.

Electric vehicles struggle to hold up amid heat wave roasting US

a. "heat wave" / "As temperatures rise" = summer ...

b. it's been fairly hot this summer in Tennessee, and our family's EV's battery is holding up wonderfully.

aa. on average charge : our family's EV achieves extended range, during summer (VS winter)

 

[kiddiedoc]

a. "heat wave" / "As temperatures rise" = summer ...

b. it's been fairly hot this summer in Tennessee, and our family's EV's battery is holding up wonderfully.

aa. on average charge : our family's EV achieves extended range, during summer (VS winter)

Yeah, no problems here either

 

[KptVFL]

a. "heat wave" / "As temperatures rise" = summer ...

b. it's been fairly hot this summer in Tennessee, and our family's EV's battery is holding up wonderfully.

aa. on average charge : our family's EV achieves extended range, during summer (VS winter)

What year is your vehicle?

I am glad that you like it and am intrigued by them. My biggest concern is longevity of the battery. I know @kiddiedoc says his is working great as well, but also know his car is about 3 months old. I would expect nothing different at that age.

I can only assume that it is no different than my cell phone, cordless drill, etc. No matter what tech the battery is they all became virtually unusable after a period of time.

 

[kiddiedoc]

What year is your vehicle?

I am glad that you like it and am intrigued by them. My biggest concern is longevity of the battery. I know @kiddiedoc says his is working great as well, but also know his car is about 3 months old. I would expect nothing different at that age.

I can only assume that it is no different than my cell phone, cordless drill, etc. No matter what tech the battery is they all became virtually unusable after a period of time.

Did you read the battery warranty info I posted?

 

[KptVFL]

Did you read the battery warranty info I posted?

I did. Thing is 70% of 400 miles is 280 miles at 8 years or 120,000 miles to be considered acceptable. A 280 mile range on a vehicle would be atrocious. I'm still driving a '99 4runner with about 130,000 miles on it(only reason it's so low is I got it from my mother who rarely drove it.) 4runner runs like a champ. Would it be essentially unrepairable if it was an EV?

Have not seen actual prices for battery replacement other than the things I've seen suggesting upwards of $20,000. If that is true then that's a huge issue. Can drop a new engine in a 20 plus year old car for around $6,000. Makes me wonder if a 20 year old EV is even worth fixing or just heads to the scrap pile.

Trust me, I'm not an EV hater just trying to think of it logically. Personally I could never afford a $20,000 bill on anything. Granted, if those #s are correct.

We won't be able to talk about resale prices of older EVs for quite a few more years but it seems it could be a substantial issue.

Edit: on 2nd thought 4runners range is sh#t but it hasn't changed over time(tank is WAY too small!).

I'm glad you are enjoying your car! They look pretty cool.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I did. Thing is 70% of 400 miles is 280 miles at 8 years or 120,000 miles to be considered acceptable. A 280 mile range on a vehicle would be atrocious. I'm still driving a '99 4runner with about 130,000 miles on it(only reason it's so low is I got it from my mother who rarely drove it.) 4runner runs like a champ. Would it be essentially unrepairable if it was an EV?

Have not seen actual prices for battery replacement other than the things I've seen suggesting upwards of $20,000. If that is true then that's a huge issue. Can drop a new engine in a 20 plus year old car for around $6,000. Makes me wonder if a 20 year old EV is even worth fixing or just heads to the scrap pile.

Trust me, I'm not an EV hater just trying to think of it logically. Personally I could never afford a $20,000 bill on anything. Granted, if those #s are correct.

We won't be able to talk about resale prices of older EVs for quite a few more years but it seems it could be a substantial issue.

Edit: on 2nd thought 4runners range is sh#t but it hasn't changed over time(tank is WAY too small!).

I'm glad you are enjoying your car! They look pretty cool.

I guess it just depends on your usage. I've only driven long distance once, and the supercharger worked great. For a commuter, taking kids around town, having fun on back roads, or track purposes, 280 miles is a ton of mileage. It's a simple charge overnight in 6 hours.

And thanks, yes -- I'm really enjoying it and thrill of the acceleration has definitely not worn off. I've been talking to some people with the Flat Rock development.... looking forward to track time, hopefully late this fall.

 

[UT-Rex]

What year is your vehicle?

I am glad that you like it and am intrigued by them. My biggest concern is longevity of the battery. I know @kiddiedoc says his is working great as well, but also know his car is about 3 months old. I would expect nothing different at that age.

I can only assume that it is no different than my cell phone, cordless drill, etc. No matter what tech the battery is they all became virtually unusable after a period of time.

'23.

Battery technology is rapidly changing (for the better -- see Toyota, new solid-state tech).

If a driver commutes <300 miles per day Mon-Fri, this seems to be the way to go -- shucks, if you commuted 250 miles one way, then 250 return home, this would also be the way to go (then, get the 3/4 ton for the weekend horse trailering or lumber pickups at HD, and the Ferrari for evening rides with the Car Club).

We're very pleased.

 

[KptVFL]

'23.

Battery technology is rapidly changing (for the better -- see Toyota, new solid-state tech).

If a driver commutes <300 miles per day Mon-Fri, this seems to be the way to go -- shucks, if you commuted 250 miles one way, then 250 return home, this would also be the way to go (then, get the 3/4 ton for the weekend horse trailering or lumber pickups at HD, and the Ferrari for evening rides with the Car Club).

We're very pleased.

Seriously not trying to crap on your all's experience! I'm glad that you are enjoying them!

These are just the concerns that I personally have and the jury is still out on the outcome. I have MANY older cordless tools that are essentially useless. They were all top of the line when purchased but once the batteries degraded they became unusable and it was cheaper to buy new tools that came with batteries than to just buy new batteries for them. Personally, my last 2 vehicles I had for 20+ years. Of course there were repairs along the way but nothing too insane. I just wonder if that will be possible with an electric vehicle. The only people I personally know that own them are a few cardiologists at work and their financial concerns and mine are not even on the same planet.

 

[Sea Ray]

I could be wrong but I don't think these Tesla owners are thinking in terms of keeping the car for 20yrs. Completely different mindset. That's why the gov't should not force this technology on us. Let us folks who like to buy used and keep our car for 200K miles have our market too. $50K for a car? I've never spent half that much and I've got an awfully nice car

 

[turbovol]

Yet oddly, they won’t build any new nuke plants. Had they just spent that $1 trillion hand out on 2000 new tech mini plants, instead of their corrupt friends, we would have nearly free electricity, it could be so cheap.

Two new nuke plants are under construction in Georgia. There have been applications for more, I read, but don't know the status.
Nuke plants are very efficient once built and operating, I believe, but very expensive to build--which is an issue. The U.S. gets about 20 percent
of its energy from nukes.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Those In The Southwest Are Learning Electric Cars Don’t Like It Hot

 

[kiddiedoc]

I could be wrong but I don't think these Tesla owners are thinking in terms of keeping the car for 20yrs. Completely different mindset. That's why the gov't should not force this technology on us. Let us folks who like to buy used and keep our car for 200K miles have our market too. $50K for a car? I've never spent half that much and I've got an awfully nice car

Agree 100%.

P.S .: you also can't smoke a new 'Vette off the line, LOL

 

[kiddiedoc]

Those In The Southwest Are Learning Electric Cars Don’t Like It Hot

For better or worse it’s also helpful to run the air conditioning sparingly while driving, especially at highway speeds where battery consumption is automatically greater than it is during around-town use.

This is not true. Highway consumption is much lower than when I'm rocketing from stop lights to stop signs around town. Acceleration is what drains it the most.

 

[allvol123]

Ameland rescue: Crew jump off ship ablaze with cargo of 3,000 cars

EV suggested as candidate for start of fire.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Republicans push legislation to Block California's gas vehicle ban

House Republicans forged a path for legislation to block California’s ban on the sale of new gas-powered cars and smaller trucks as the state leads the nation’s electric vehicle push.

Four GOP members, led by Rep. John Joyce (R-PA), introduced a bill earlier this year aimed at blocking vehicle purchase requirements. The legislation passed through the Energy and Commerce Committee in a vote of 26-22 on Thursday and will be considered by the entire House next.


Republicans push legislation to block California's gas vehicle ban

 

[hog88]

Republicans push legislation to Block California's gas vehicle ban

House Republicans forged a path for legislation to block California’s ban on the sale of new gas-powered cars and smaller trucks as the state leads the nation’s electric vehicle push.

Four GOP members, led by Rep. John Joyce (R-PA), introduced a bill earlier this year aimed at blocking vehicle purchase requirements. The legislation passed through the Energy and Commerce Committee in a vote of 26-22 on Thursday and will be considered by the entire House next.


Republicans push legislation to block California's gas vehicle ban

That's BS! This is no business of the federal govt. ****ing Rs are no better than the Ds when it comes to states rights.

 

[UT-Rex]

That's BS! This is no business of the federal govt. ****ing Rs are no better than the Ds when it comes to states rights.

You likely already know about this one /

There is precedence for others / other States encouraging CA to get smart --

California’s new pig rule will wreak havoc with pork producers (farmprogress.com)

The Supreme Court so far has not stepped in, despite clear signals that this is a violation of the U.S. Constitution’s Commerce Clause. Neither has Congress. And what about USDA? A letter was written to USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack on May 27, 2021, begging him to get involved in the Proposition 12 controversy. He has remained silent.

The letter included a report produced by North Carolina State economist Dr. Barry K. Goodwin, “California’s Proposition 12 and Its Impact On the Pork Industry.” The study finds that construction costs for a new 5,200-sow operation that meets the California requirements would be $15.6 million, while retrofitting an existing barn would cost an average of $10 per pig, or $770 million for the 77 million sows on U.S. pig farms.

Jen Sorenson, President of the National Pork Producers Council, said “The challenges U.S. hog farmers face from Proposition 12 are daunting…” She also said “…if left unchecked, [Proposition 12] will result in a loss of 2.5 per cent of national pork harvest capacity, handing pork packers more market power at the expenses (sic) of hog farmers, especially smaller producers.”

The mainstream media is also taking notice. Over the weekend the Wall Street Journal opined that California is making bacon more expensive, writing, “a new law will force pork producers nationwide to comply with onerous regulations” (subscription required).

Of course, there will be market disruption as existing facilities are either modified or completely replaced over the next 12 months

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

Yippee! More cheap Chicom goods!

Report: China Looks to Flood U.S. Market with Cheap Electric Vehicles

 

[hog88]

You likely already know about this one /

There is precedence for others / other States encouraging CA to get smart --

California’s new pig rule will wreak havoc with pork producers (farmprogress.com)

The Supreme Court so far has not stepped in, despite clear signals that this is a violation of the U.S. Constitution’s Commerce Clause. Neither has Congress. And what about USDA? A letter was written to USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack on May 27, 2021, begging him to get involved in the Proposition 12 controversy. He has remained silent.

The letter included a report produced by North Carolina State economist Dr. Barry K. Goodwin, “California’s Proposition 12 and Its Impact On the Pork Industry.” The study finds that construction costs for a new 5,200-sow operation that meets the California requirements would be $15.6 million, while retrofitting an existing barn would cost an average of $10 per pig, or $770 million for the 77 million sows on U.S. pig farms.

Jen Sorenson, President of the National Pork Producers Council, said “The challenges U.S. hog farmers face from Proposition 12 are daunting…” She also said “…if left unchecked, [Proposition 12] will result in a loss of 2.5 per cent of national pork harvest capacity, handing pork packers more market power at the expenses (sic) of hog farmers, especially smaller producers.”

The mainstream media is also taking notice. Over the weekend the Wall Street Journal opined that California is making bacon more expensive, writing, “a new law will force pork producers nationwide to comply with onerous regulations” (subscription required).

Of course, there will be market disruption as existing facilities are either modified or completely replaced over the next 12 months

I don't see how this is a violation of the commerce clause, producers should simply stop selling non-compliant product in California. Until an industry as a whole stands up and says piss off this country will continue to allow a select few states make the rules for all of us. When Nixons administration allowed CA to set it's own emissions standards all vehicle manufactures should have just stopped selling cars in CA or made a select few for CA and priced them accordingly. The private sector needs to stop asking for federal intervention and bite the bullet to stop this madness.

I absolutely oppose this move by CA but IMO it's well within their rights to make it and it's none of the federal government's business.

 

[LouderVol]

Two new nuke plants are under construction in Georgia. There have been applications for more, I read, but don't know the status.
Nuke plants are very efficient once built and operating, I believe, but very expensive to build--which is an issue. The U.S. gets about 20 percent
of its energy from nukes.

its expensive due to all the government red tape. and thats not the safety regulations, just the red tape.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Biden admin unveils latest effort to crack down on gas-powered cars, push EVs

Biden agency admits new fuel standards expected to raise car prices

The Biden administration proposed new fuel economy standards for passenger cars and light trucks which it said would save Americans hundreds of dollars at the gas pump — but will also drive car prices higher.

The new Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards — unveiled Friday by the Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) — requires passenger cars and light trucks to improve fuel efficiency 2% and 4%, respectively, beginning in 2027. Under the rules, pickup trucks and work vans must boost fuel efficiency 10% every year starting in 2030.

By 2032, the agency said average U.S. fleet fuel economy could reach 58 miles per gallon. According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the estimated average fuel economy for model year 2022 cars was 26.4 miles per gallon, meaning the proposed standards Friday would mandate automakers more than double fuel efficiency in less than a decade or face substantial penalties.

Biden admin unveils latest effort to crack down on gas-powered cars, push EVs

 

[EasternVol]

I don't see how this is a violation of the commerce clause, producers should simply stop selling non-compliant product in California. Until an industry as a whole stands up and says piss off this country will continue to allow a select few states make the rules for all of us. When Nixons administration allowed CA to set it's own emissions standards all vehicle manufactures should have just stopped selling cars in CA or made a select few for CA and priced them accordingly. The private sector needs to stop asking for federal intervention and bite the bullet to stop this madness.

I absolutely oppose this move by CA but IMO it's well within their rights to make it and it's none of the federal government's business.

I think that's what they did. I (think I) remember cars with specific California emissions packages.

 

[hog88]

I think that's what they did. I (think I) remember cars with specific California emissions packages.

I can’t remember the last mass produced car that didn’t meet CA emissions standards.

 

[EasternVol]

I can’t remember the last mass produced car that didn’t meet CA emissions standards.

It may have been the first year or few years.