Electric Vehicles

#2,126
#2,126
UT-Rex said:
Just because you moved to TX doesn't mean that EV $ will catch up to gasoline costs (but, they might).

Real life , current cost per mile: $0.025 (EV) vs $0.11 (gas)

As I said: Right -- likely, gov't will impose more-direct taxes (state/fed) to pay for roads.

So (by whatever example past): convince us how the gov't will convince the public to pay $0.085 PER MILE in taxes (or, 3x taxes the cost of the actual product).
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property taxes can easily outstrip the value of the product. Cigarettes' taxes in some states are already north of 70% of the value of the product.
before gas got so expensive the net tax rate was a much higher percentage of the total cost than it is today. Usually the gas tax is a set number and not % based. so as costs go up, the net rate goes down even if the number stays the same. The gas tax was generated by assumed fees needed to fix up roads based on the number of cars on it. The cost to fix roads isn't going to go down, so they are going to have to generate the same tax dollars somehow. and as fewer people drive gas vehicles that is less gas tax to offset the road costs.

They could easily require a separate meter for EV chargers and apply a special tax rate to that vs the rest of the house/business. or they could just charge a flat tax.

Things like license's and license plates could also see their fees/taxes increased to offset.

the government will get theirs. the cost of road maintenance isn't going to go down or go away with EVs. the government doesn't convince people to pay taxes, they make them pay taxes.
 
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#2,127
#2,127
NorthDallas40 said:
LMAO the way you’re bowing up like somebody just called your newborn the ugliest baby ever born it’s rather obvious you’ve convinced yourself EVs are THE answer and any one that even hints otherwise shall be rebuked to the maximum degree. 😂

Since you like to play “what if” let’s do that. Let’s say you drive 7500 miles a year and your old ICE car got 15 miles to the gallon. You’re new awesome and everyone should have one EV has an 82kWh battery with a 300 mile published range. Those are around the Model 3 numbers I believe.

7500 / 300 = 25 EV fill ups. The mfg doesn’t want you to run the battery out so let’s assume that 300 mi only uses 85% capacity. Before you scream your baby isn’t ugly both of those assumptions, using published range and only 85%, helps your case.

So that’s 25 x 82kWh x 85% = 1742 kWh that you have to pay for. That’s it just apply whatever energy rate where you live and that’s your current cost. For me at $0.15 that’s $261.

But now the government(s) are losing out on

7500 / 15 = 500 gal of fuel tax receipts. TX and TX are close so let’s call that $0.45 for $225 that they are going to come wanting back. That’s actually not a large amount which is great but it does almost double the current environment. And there is a whole new charging infrastructure that is going to have to be paid for as well as a level 2 charger installation that is needed to have any charging flexibility. And the vast majority of homes do not have a 50A 240V plug in their garage so there is an additional cost associated there. And before the EV avenger bows up about level 1 chargers in a standard duplex 110V plug you are limited to around 1.7kW max before the breaker pops. So full charging time is 82kWh/1.7kW = 48 hrs min. Yes, min because once you get near full capacity the amperage curve backs down but the “good news” is it isn’t likely to do much due to the slow ass level 1 charge rate. 😂

Published gas costs in TX and TN today are very close call it $3.45. So my yearly fuel costs are 500 x 3.45 = $1725. Hey there is clearly a cost advantage even with recouped taxes that’s a $1200 delta per year roughly.

So basically you have to take the added up front costs (which the government is trying to coerce you to bite off because nobody really wants EVs currently) and amortize them over the life of the car at around $1200-1400 a year and if you don’t want to be tied to your freaking level 1 charger to spring for installation of a level 2 so that’s extra cost that’s got to be amortized

Today I can drive my F250 up to the gas pump and consume the last drop of fuel in the tank before the engine dies, blast 30 gallons into the tank in 5 minutes, and be on my way at full range. You’re hopelessly doomed to even approach that ability today even at the high voltage public chargers and physics is going to preclude you from ever overcoming it. Plus your bought and paid for level 2 charger in your garage will never be capable of that as the power grid maxes out at 240V residential power. And I don’t have to leave a gas pump hooked up to my truck all night long at home. Not make sure my level 1 gas pump has refill time when I travel.

Owning an EV is a lifestyle choice and will be for the foreseeable future. It is far from the slam dunk must do that you’re preaching about, EV Avenger.
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The only thing I’ll argue here is that the TN gas tax is 26 cents, your math almost doubled this.

Using your numbers, TN “loses” $130 a year in tax revenue because my wife traded her Subaru for a Tesla.

Actually, let’s use my wife’s numbers. Her Crosstrek averaged 30mpg. At 10,000 miles per year, she buys 333 gallons of gas. TN’s cut is 86 bucks.

Last month I swiped my debit card to renew the Tesla’s registration, the normal fees plus my $100 evil EV charge.

TN comes out better in this real scenario.
 
#2,128
#2,128
Willy P said:
The only thing I’ll argue here is that the TN gas tax is 26 cents, your math almost doubled this.

Using your numbers, TN “loses” $130 a year in tax revenue because my wife traded her Subaru for a Tesla.

Actually, let’s use my wife’s numbers. Her Crosstrek averaged 30mpg. At 10,000 miles per year, she buys 333 gallons of gas. TN’s cut is 86 bucks.

Last month I swiped my debit card to renew the Tesla’s registration, the normal fees plus my $100 evil EV charge.

TN comes out better in this real scenario.
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I put a figure up earlier on total tax. That’s the TN state the federal tax is like another $0.184. Tx and TN are within a couple of cents I believe on total tax.

And the registration add that apparently TN is doing seems like an obvious approach. Using aggregate numbers should work just fine from a macro sense.

Edit: here is the figure. If I’m off significantly we can update if desired. It does look like I was close on TN but a handful of cents high on TX

IMG_3543.jpeg
 
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#2,129
#2,129
NorthDallas40 said:
I put a figure up earlier on total tax. That’s the TN state the federal tax is like another $0.184. Tx and TN are within a couple of cents I believe on total tax.

And the registration add that apparently TN is doing seems like an obvious approach. Using aggregate numbers should work just fine from a macro sense.

Edit: here is the figure. If I’m off significantly we can update if desired. It does look like I was close on TN but a handful of cents high on TX

View attachment 568551
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I just wanted to illustrate the state level in the scenario. I’m sure the federal government is not far behind using their own type of fee.

I would fight as long as I could the government tracking my mileage…
 
#2,130
#2,130
Willy P said:
I just wanted to illustrate the state level in the scenario. I’m sure the federal government is not far behind using their own type of fee.

I would fight as long as I could the government tracking my mileage…
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Ok fair enough. Thus far I’ve treated the taxes as aggregate so I wanted to be consistent. The Feds are still going to eventually send Guido to collect their fuel tax I believe they aren’t gonna just let the states recoup their funds and lose theirs.
 
#2,134
#2,134
Electric Cadillac Escalade to Test GM’s EV strategy, cash machine

on Wednesday will reveal a new all-electric version of the Cadillac Escalade, testing the luxury SUV’s prestige for a new era of drivers and the company’s strategy to turn its most lucrative vehicles into money-making EVs.

GM CEO Mary Barra and other executives have promised Wall Street that the automaker’s new EVs will be profitable, targeting EV profits comparable to gas-powered models by mid-decade and annual EV revenue of $90 billion by 2030.

But slower-than-expected electric vehicle launches, inflated raw material costs and emerging concerns about consumer acceptance have some doubting the automaker’s ability to achieve the scale it needs to deliver on such targets.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/08/gm-electric-cadillac-escalade-ev-strategy.html
 
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#2,136
#2,136
Franklin Pierce said:
Electric Cadillac Escalade to Test GM’s EV strategy, cash machine

on Wednesday will reveal a new all-electric version of the Cadillac Escalade, testing the luxury SUV’s prestige for a new era of drivers and the company’s strategy to turn its most lucrative vehicles into money-making EVs.

GM CEO Mary Barra and other executives have promised Wall Street that the automaker’s new EVs will be profitable, targeting EV profits comparable to gas-powered models by mid-decade and annual EV revenue of $90 billion by 2030.

But slower-than-expected electric vehicle launches, inflated raw material costs and emerging concerns about consumer acceptance have some doubting the automaker’s ability to achieve the scale it needs to deliver on such targets.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/08/gm-electric-cadillac-escalade-ev-strategy.html
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Using the Hummer known battery specs of 177kWh it would take a level 1 charger 100 hours minimum to do a full charge on that battery. A level 2 is a must and using a 50A plug it’s still 15 hours minimum. It would mandate public high voltage charging stations or direct wired level 2 home systems. Of course anybody buying this vehicle isn’t worried about money.

AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Cadillac Escalade IQ Confirmed as the EV Version of the Deluxe SUV

Despite the current lack of information, there's no doubt the 2024 Cadillac Escalade IQ will use GM's Ultium battery technology. If it's anything like the GMC Hummer EV SUV, the Caddy could have a roughly 177-kWh battery capacity and three electric motors making 830 horsepower or more. Of course, it will also almost surely weigh over four tons. We should find out that information and more in less than a month.
 
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#2,138
#2,138
NorthDallas40 said:
@kiddiedoc I ran across this article on Model 3 Performance track testing. If you haven’t seen it the Model 3 was amongst the quickest cars on lap time that the author had driven. I’m sure your EV will be a hoot on the track.

https://gorally.com/model-3-performance/
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That's awesome. I'm looking forward to it!

My nerves will come from letting the tires slip a little. Besides the immediate launch Gs, the fact that I literally never bark the tires has been the biggest surprise. It's got some crazy slip diff/traction control.
 
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#2,139
#2,139
kiddiedoc said:
That's awesome. I'm looking forward to it!

My nerves will come from letting the tires slip a little. Besides the immediate launch Gs, the fact that I literally never bark the tires has been the biggest surprise. It's got some crazy slip diff/traction control.
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The one thing that is undisputed on these performance EVs is the standing start torque performance. The Model 3 was near the quickest the author had driven and there were a handful of real performance cars on his list.
 
#2,140
#2,140
NorthDallas40 said:
The one thing that is undisputed on these performance EVs is the standing start torque performance. The Model 3 was near the quickest the author had driven and there were a handful of real performance cars on his list.
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Every one of my friends has said it's the most insane launch they've ever experienced.
 
#2,141
#2,141
The crazy thing is that my 16 year old son could take it to Kingston Pike right now and get to 60 in 3 flat. A Z06, 911, etc can do that, too, but only in the hands of a skilled driver. It's not hard to break a high-horse ICE car loose and get off the road.
 
#2,142
#2,142
kiddiedoc said:
Every one of my friends has said it's the most insane launch they've ever experienced.
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Yeah that article references another writeup on how to use the track mode adjustments I think? Might be useful to you don’t know 🤷‍♂️ Regardless I’m sure its a hoot to just romp the “gas” pedal 😂
 
#2,146
#2,146
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
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d64f4c1c405c2ee1b4f9da9c0367b6d1.gif
 
#2,148
#2,148
I have a gas powered Honda CR-V. Thought a couple of years ago of checking into a hybrid version but as is I get 31 mpg overall and the hybrid version they said only got 34, so in my view the extra price was not worth it.

I'd consider an EV now except for two things. First, the prices keep coming down and as more models are introduced it seems like that might continue. Second, I worry that if I bought one now with a range of 300 miles on a charge, two years later the tech would be better and for the same price I might get 600 miles on a charge.
 
#2,150
#2,150
lawgator1 said:
I have a gas powered Honda CR-V. Thought a couple of years ago of checking into a hybrid version but as is I get 31 mpg overall and the hybrid version they said only got 34, so in my view the extra price was not worth it.

I'd consider an EV now except for two things. First, the prices keep coming down and as more models are introduced it seems like that might continue. Second, I worry that if I bought one now with a range of 300 miles on a charge, two years later the tech would be better and for the same price I might get 600 miles on a charge.
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I wouldn’t worry too much about the range doubling like that. Energy usage rate is energy usage rate and the electric motors are already around 3x more efficient than ICE engines. And they won’t be getting anymore efficient they’re already in the mid 80’s on efficiency and braking energy recovery technology is very mature. Plus if they double battery capacity they still have a charging bottle neck that is going to be extremely difficult to overcome. The solid state Lithium batteries in development will already accept a higher power charging rate but it’s difficult to feed them at that rate with the voltages available in the transmission network. Residential is already maxed at 240V so there is no benefit above level 2 for a home charger. On public chargers it’s going to take higher voltages to supply the charging power needed to feed them already and then you move the problem to charging cable heating which is also an efficiency loss in charging. (Heat = wasted electricity)

Tldr version if you want one buy one and put a level 2 charger in your garage and don’t worry about it. If you don’t want one don’t buy it.
 
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