Electric Vehicles

[NorthDallas40]

When you are taking advantage of Medicare, you might feel differently. Ask farmer's about their subsidies and price supports, the needed using Medicaid. The government does a lot of good things whether or not yahoos want to admit it.

Well I’ve paid into Medicare for over 35 years soooo….

 

[NorthDallas40]

Perhaps you are confusing the lay people on here, with your electrical engineering degree jargon (sometimes that background is necessary, but not in this case, as the industry-engineers have pretty much figure it out, at this phase) --

it's simple: a "level 2" power adapter of some sort was installed at the house ;

having 100% charge, the vehicle is driven around town, approx 50, 80-120 miles per day (end of day: approx 180 miles is remaining on the charge, but normally not used) ;

every day after usage, after sundown or approximately before or several hours thereafter but usually prior to midnight, the vehic is plugged back into the level 2 charger (just like a smart phone) -- if it's been driven 80 miles, charge time is approx 2-3-4 hours / ready for next day well prior to sunrise of the next day -- the next morning, it's ready to drive (i.e. drive, plug in, unplug, drive, repeat << all from the convenience of "home," just like a Smart Phone or mobile tablet, or electric shaver or drill).

For Cost of level 2 charger: duck duck go it for your area, "cost of level 2 charger for home"

It takes around 4 or more hours on a level 2 charger to replenish 120 miles of range for the typical small passenger EV battery pack. So your statement of it takes 2 hours to get back to 100 % after driving simply doesn’t hold water. And a socket plug level 2 charger can supply no more than 12kW so two hours of charge will only replenish 24kWh of energy. You said 2 hours to get to 100%. Your words. soooooo….

Basically your talking points method of regurgitating all of the positive marketing material on EVs while completely ignoring all of the negatives represents the worst in actual discussion about the technology. You clearly have no understanding of how it all really works. You’ve just cultishly bought 100% into the idea of BEVs and spew completely uninformed viewpoints that lack any real representation of the technology and crumble under any critical analysis.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Interesting. I've been providing you with industry-related battery technology data (but you refer to it negatively as "marketing brochure" then you turn around and advise others to "read up on" technology).

No you’ve been providing everyone with rose colored glasses tainted marketing brochures. You in fact provided actual marketing web links. You haven’t been an honest broker at any point in this discussion. And are thus treated as a dishonest broker.

And I’d advise you to read up on the technology also. Both the good and the bad. Not just the positive marketing cultish information you’ve clearly focused on thus far. Because you clearly have no damn idea what you’re talking about.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[hog88]

When you are taking advantage of Medicare, you might feel differently. Ask farmer's about their subsidies and price supports, the needed using Medicaid. The government does a lot of good things whether or not yahoos want to admit it.

Most farmers would love to see the end of subsidies and price supports because with price supports comes price controls.

You asked and now you have an answer.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Most farmers would love to see the end of subsidies and price supports because with price supports comes price controls.

You asked and now you have an answer.

Lol I knew you’d jump on that if you saw it?

 

[Carl Pickens]

 

[hog88]

Lol I knew you’d jump on that if you saw it?

Morons always like to throw out farm subsidies without knowing anything about the subject. Sure there are people like Bill Gates who make piles of money off of subsidies that probably love them but your average family farm would be better off if they went away. Some would surely go out of business but those that survived would be much better off.

They don't understand why we have farm subsidies, price controls and assistance, it's not to benefit farmers. It's to keep the price of food artificially low so the masses are fat and happy.

 

[rekinhavoc]

If that's true, why is the author including e-bikes and "other devices" in a diatribe against EVs? Do we get any stats breaking down how many actual vehicle fires there were? Why is the only anecdotal story about an e-bike shop? How many were toy hoverboards? Does he have a proofreader to spell check his article before posting?

I think his point was political parties use scare tactics to influence policy. I don't think it was necessarily an attack on EVs.

 

[sonofUT62]

Today my company repaired a vehicle with a book value of 24K with a 27K EV battery. The dealer bought it from the parts distributor and then per the state law marked it up double. We’re going to have to ask the customer to let us voluntarily buy it back to avoid a 56 K repair. Someone tell me how this is sustainable again?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Today my company repaired a vehicle with a book value of 24K with a 27K EV battery. The dealer bought it from the parts distributor and then per the state law marked it up double. We’re going to have to ask the customer to let us voluntarily buy it back to avoid a 56 K repair. Someone tell me how this is sustainable again?

What model car if you don’t mind me asking?

And before a certain EV avenger chimes in with more uninformed dumbassery.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-do-ev-batteries-cost

Cost Of EV Batteries
Electric vehicles are the most expensive when it comes to battery costs. A battery might cost between $4,000 and $20,000, depending on the brand and model of your vehicle. So, if you have owned the car for a while, and the warranty is void, you have no choice but to pay the asking price.

Yes I freely admit this is a corner case and yes as long as you’re within your vehicles warranty period on the battery you likely won’t have to deal with this. However it’s clear that EVs will not have a high residual value on the used market after the warranty is expired.

 

[hog88]

Today my company repaired a vehicle with a book value of 24K with a 27K EV battery. The dealer bought it from the parts distributor and then per the state law marked it up double. We’re going to have to ask the customer to let us voluntarily buy it back to avoid a 56 K repair. Someone tell me how this is sustainable again?

State law requires parts to marked up double? What state is this? How does that work?

 

[NorthDallas40]

State law requires parts to marked up double? What state is this? How does that work?

I inferred that the particular state allowed 100% markup which isn’t uncommon.

How to Get Retail Rate for Warranty Parts.

 

[sonofUT62]

State law requires parts to marked up double? What state is this? How does that work?

The law doesn’t REQUIRE them to mark up the price. It ALLOWS them to based on a sliding scale of how much the part is. An engine can be marked up a significant portion more than a door handle handle if that makes sense. It varies by state. My territory is New England and parts of NJ and the laws are apparently mostly the same because I tried to have the vehicle moved to another state and my boss advised that it wouldn’t matter.

 

[sonofUT62]

What model car if you don’t mind me asking?

And before a certain EV avenger chimes in with more uninformed dumbassery.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-do-ev-batteries-cost

Cost Of EV Batteries
Electric vehicles are the most expensive when it comes to battery costs. A battery might cost between $4,000 and $20,000, depending on the brand and model of your vehicle. So, if you have owned the car for a while, and the warranty is void, you have no choice but to pay the asking price.

Yes I freely admit this is a corner case and yes as long as you’re within your vehicles warranty period on the battery you likely won’t have to deal with this. However it’s clear that EVs will not have a high residual value on the used market after the warranty is expired.

I should probably avoid mentioning the Model as that will out my company. I don’t blame my company, I despise the industry and think that our desire to harness this technology far exceeds our ability to do so. I think that the problems and drawbacks have been swept under the rug because a select group doesn’t want to admit some hard truths.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I should probably avoid mentioning the Model as that will out my company. I don’t blame my company, I despise the industry and think that our desire to harness this technology far exceeds our ability to do so. I think that the problems and drawbacks have been swept under the rug because a select group doesn’t want to admit some hard truths.

Fair enough. But we are talking dealer warranty repair here right? So the model is also your company brand right?

And like I said this illustrates that BEVs are disposable cars to a certain degree. And as newer battery technology evolves there will be less incentive to keep the older battery types in circulation as spare parts. BEVs just make no sense for anybody that keeps their car outside of the warranty period to me. We buy our vehicles new and keep them over a decade. I’ve still got one year left on the extended warranty on my 2012 F-250. I put one one it new and bought another one when the first one expired. And they both paid for themselves.

 

[hog88]

The law doesn’t REQUIRE them to mark up the price. It ALLOWS them to based on a sliding scale of how much the part is. An engine can be marked up a significant portion more than a door handle handle if that makes sense. It varies by state. My territory is New England and parts of NJ and the laws are apparently mostly the same because I tried to have the vehicle moved to another state and my boss advised that it wouldn’t matter.

Ahh, gotcha. I ran into something similar in RI installing a stormwater system, got a complaint filed against us for not charging enough.

 

[sonofUT62]

Fair enough. But we are talking dealer warranty repair here right? So the model is also your company brand right?

And like I said this illustrates that BEVs are disposable cars to a certain degree. And as newer battery technology evolves there will be less incentive to keep the older battery types in circulation as spare parts. BEVs just make no sense for anybody that keeps their car outside of the warranty period to me. We buy our vehicles new and keep them over a decade. I’ve still got one year left on the extended warranty on my 2012 F-250. I put one one it new and bought another one when the first one expired. And they both paid for themselves.

Yes. It was under warranty.

 

[volinbham]

Yes I freely admit this is a corner case and yes as long as you’re within your vehicles warranty period on the battery you likely won’t have to deal with this. However it’s clear that EVs will not have a high residual value on the used market after the warranty is expired.

range degrades too so if you buy a used EV that doesn't need a replacement battery you may still be getting a lower range vehicle - I think warranties are somewhere around the 70% retained range area - I was looking at some e-Golfs which were low range to begin with - 75% of range is still within spec but really hits the usability

 

[kiddiedoc]

I promised some charging/energy usage/cost stats after a little experience.

After 4200 miles, I'm averaging 278 Wh/m of energy use, which is close to 4 miles per kWh. 1 kWh of charge at home costs $0.09 in my area, so the car is basically running $0.02-ish per mile.

By that math, I get around 2500 miles out of $50 of charging cost (compared to maybe 300-400 miles expected out of an average ICE car on a $50 tank of gas).

Compared to the predicted range, city mileage in the heat with AC running most of the time cuts the actual range by somewhere around 30%. For example, last charge to 90% left a predicted 272 miles, and I got 142 miles out of the car at 25% remaining charge. On short trips, I've paid attention to the AC effect. Manual override with the AC at full blast and max fan SIGNIFICANTLY increases power consumption (as much as 50% more than driving without AC). Set to "auto" on the AC, that number is much smaller.

I will record the exact charging time to go from 25-90% this evening.

Notes:
- it's been hot and I like to stay cool
- I drive pretty hard
- I always keep acceleration in "Performance" mode

 

[NorthDallas40]

I promised some charging/energy usage/cost stats after a little experience.

After 4200 miles, I'm averaging 278 Wh/m of energy use, which is close to 4 miles per kWh. 1 kWh of charge at home costs $0.09 in my area, so the car is basically running $0.02-ish per mile.

By that math, I get around 2500 miles out of $50 of charging cost (compared to maybe 300-400 miles expected out of an average ICE car on a $50 tank of gas).

Compared to the predicted range, city mileage in the heat with AC running most of the time cuts the actual range by somewhere around 30%. For example, last charge to 90% left a predicted 272 miles, and I got 142 miles out of the car at 25% remaining charge. On short trips, I've paid attention to the AC effect. Manual override with the AC at full blast and max fan SIGNIFICANTLY increases power consumption (as much as 50% more than driving without AC). Set to "auto" on the AC, that number is much smaller.

I will record the exact charging time to go from 25-90% this evening.

Notes:
- it's been hot and I like to stay cool
- I drive pretty hard
- I always keep acceleration in "Performance" mode

Drive it like you stole it and enjoy your car. Our banter is background noise so ignore us. It’s a cool car and you wanted it and you’ve got it so enjoy it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

range degrades too so if you buy a used EV that doesn't need a replacement battery you may still be getting a lower range vehicle - I think warranties are somewhere around the 70% retained range area - I was looking at some e-Golfs which were low range to begin with - 75% of range is still within spec but really hits the usability

Also all mfgrs in North America provide a minimum BEV and hybrid battery warranty of 8 years and 100,000 miles. They don’t do it out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s federal law. Not all mfgr warranties are transferable. And some mfgrs, Tesla for example, exceeds the federally mandated minimums.

It’s the same battery technology today that is in our phones. Phones have much higher charge/discharge cycles so the life is shorter. But that analogy gives a very valid example of the accelerated useful life of a BEV battery. It’s neither good nor bad. It’s information that the owner needs to factor into their buying choice to make an informed buying decision.

 

[Orangeburst]

interesting and informative posts..what forum am I in again?

 

[rekinhavoc]

Tycoon’s Fortune Soars $39 Billion on Eyebrow-Raising SPAC

 

[kiddiedoc]

Drive it like you stole it and enjoy your car. Our banter is background noise so ignore us. It’s a cool car and you wanted it and you’ve got it so enjoy it.

Thank you. I'm just trying to provide some balanced, honest experience. 1 year ago I would have laughed at the idea of owning an EV. Tonight, I had fun playing with a Hellcat on Kingston Pike.

Just checked charging stats. It should take right at 5 hours to get from 17% to 90% tonight. I haven't plugged in since last Thursday.