ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

[BeattieFeathers]

It wasn't as if they were trying to take advantage of Vandy's entire defensive back field being injured in that game anyway.

And it speaks volumes if one player can completely cripple an offense.

Speaks volumes about the talent that was left behind.

 

[KBVol]

I dunno man.

Bowl berth on the line and his team battling for him yet they still lose?

And it says it all that we are debating which loss to teams we used to handle easily as to how far this thing has fallen.

I appreciate what Butch has done to this point, don't get me wrong. But I am also fed up with sunshine pumpers defending every misstep the last four coaches have taken for a decade now.

Excuse time is over for me. I'll praise 'em when they do good but I am not gonna bury my head in the sand when it goes south either.

I don't expect much out of this season but next year, Butch needs to start making tangible steps towards making this program relevant.

Good points. Can't disagree with any of em. And you're right about debating which ridiculously bad loss was more ridiculously bad. Damn we've fallen a long way.

 

[TGVol]

We're replacing an entire Oline and Dline with limited with no real experience.

We have A Johnson, Maggit, Vereen with experience - add to that some jucos and few talented freshman coming in that step up and surprise, and d-line will be better than last year. As a matter of fact, how can defense possibly be any worse? I mean last year was almost as bad as during Sal. I think defense can only go up from last 2 years. On the offensive side, yes o-line is all gone but all the skill positions will be improved - QB's more experience, WR's as talented as we ever had, couple of very promising new TE's, Hurd, etc. I think we will as a team be better than last year - even if we go 5-7 the losses should not be blowouts - hopefully more like during Dooley's last year (5-7) where we were at least close in most of the games we lost.

 

[sjt18]

Speaks volumes about the talent that was left behind.

You mean it was not a failure of coaching at all not to be able to get production from Pig, Croom, Young, Vincent, and Blanc? That group had more raw talent than Cuts last O at UT that carried UT to the SEC CG.

I am hanging my hopes on the notion that a new chapter has begun and at least some of the underachievement last year was part of a conscious decision to develop returning players for the future. But it looks like Neal will get a shot at the NFL and maybe 4 of the 5 starting OL's. That means that 5 of the 6 retiring starters from last year will play in the NFL... yet the O could only produce 24 ppg.

That may have been a lack of competence, a decision to play for the future, or due to transition to a new scheme... what it was NOT was maximization of the available talent.

 

[LotteryPick]

You mean it was not a failure of coaching at all not to be able to get production from Pig, Croom, Young, Vincent, and Blanc? That group had more raw talent than Cuts last O at UT that carried UT to the SEC CG.

I am hanging my hopes on the notion that a new chapter has begun and at least some of the underachievement last year was part of a conscious decision to develop returning players for the future. But it looks like Neal will get a shot at the NFL and maybe 4 of the 5 starting OL's. That means that 5 of the 6 retiring starters from last year will play in the NFL... yet the O could only produce 24 ppg.

That may have been a lack of competence, a decision to play for the future, or due to transition to a new scheme... what it was NOT was maximization of the available talent.

Why can't it be both talent and coaching?

 

[sjt18]

Prepare for disappointment friend. It took spurrier six years to break thru at Carolina. Fulmer's record will never be replicated at ut. Not saying we won't win the sec again, but sustained success we had in the 90's will likely never occur for any coach. 8 is enough, 10 or 11 in an extraordinary season. In 25 years Fulmer's accomplishments will be fully appreciated.

So basically you accept your status as the whipping boy of Bama, UGA, UF, LSU, et al?

Disappointment? Only if UT's admin is a bunch of losers like you seem to be. The standard should never change. Improve and compete for championships. If Jones can't do it then give the job to someone else. UT's fans deserve that. The Vol history supports it as a legitimate goal. Every infrastructure need is in place to make it happen. Only two things are in question. The will to win and the discovery of the RIGHT coach.

 

[sjt18]

Why can't it be both talent and coaching?

Agree completely. That's what it MUST be. This character I'm arguing with though would completely discount the coaching element on his way to a miserable acceptance of mediocrity now and into the future.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

We're replacing an entire Oline and Dline with limited with no real experience. We went 5-7 with an Oline that had 3-4 years experience. On top of that we lack any real depth in those areas. Every team we play this year is bringing back experienced players in the trenches. If CBJ makes it to 6 wins he deserves SEC COY with the schedule we're facing. People should come back down to earth.

Some of us simply believe. I am one of them. When you lose faith, you lose hope, and then, well. . .you just lose.

"To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
And to run where
the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
And to love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star
This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far"

--Mitch Leigh--

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

The key is to get a couple of these classes which is what worries me about this year in particular and its potential effects to the 2015 class.

The off season is brutal; I've tried to make the transition to the recruiting threads to pass the time but man they're a different breed over there Could be just me.

Fortunately, I could definitely see Butch relying entirely on promises of early playing time, selling the future, and all around personality to recruits regardless of this year's W/L ratio. He can probably still spin the "next year is the year" talk, and I think that will translate into results soon.

 

[oregonvol]

Prepare for disappointment friend. It took spurrier six years to break thru at Carolina. Fulmer's record will never be replicated at ut. Not saying we won't win the sec again, but sustained success we had in the 90's will likely never occur for any coach. 8 is enough, 10 or 11 in an extraordinary season. In 25 years Fulmer's accomplishments will be fully appreciated.

The comparison on here of South Carolina and Tennessee, as if they are equal programs with equal resources, tradition, history, etc...and the presumption that UT fans ought to aspire to succeed at the same frequency and at the same level as South Carolina is perhaps the truest delineation of actual Vol fandom, in my opinion.

 

[99gator]

Agree completely. That's what it MUST be. This character I'm arguing with though would completely discount the coaching element on his way to a miserable acceptance of mediocrity now and into the future.

generally speaking, year 1.....it ain't the coaching.

on most occasions for a major rebuilding project, step 1 is to tear what's already been built, down. then, you begin the process of building it back up. correctly, this time.

brick by brick

 

[BeattieFeathers]

So basically you accept your status as the whipping boy of Bama, UGA, UF, LSU, et al?

Disappointment? Only if UT's admin is a bunch of losers like you seem to be. The standard should never change. Improve and compete for championships. If Jones can't do it then give the job to someone else. UT's fans deserve that. The Vol history supports it as a legitimate goal. Every infrastructure need is in place to make it happen. Only two things are in question. The will to win and the discovery of the RIGHT coach.

competing for championships means what to you? Anybody that thinks Cody Blanc is a D1 player loses me......

 

[BeattieFeathers]

The comparison on here of South Carolina and Tennessee, as if they are equal programs with equal resources, tradition, history, etc...and the presumption that UT fans ought to aspire to succeed at the same frequency and at the same level as South Carolina is perhaps the truest delineation of actual Vol fandom, in my opinion.

The point is that Steve Spurrier is arguably the best coach anybody could hire and it took him six years at Carolina. We were more downtrodden under Dooley than we have ever been in our lifetimes. I am afraid Butch Jones will not make it here, nor would anyone, given the stupidity of our fan base.

 

[oregonvol]

The point is that Steve Spurrier is arguably the best coach anybody could hire and it took him six years at Carolina. We were more downtrodden under Dooley than we have ever been in our lifetimes. I am afraid Butch Jones will not make it here, nor would anyone, given the stupidity of our fan base.

So, you think we should all aspire to succeed at the same level as South Carolina and you hate our fanbase...sounds like a vol fan to me.

 

[Jeepkuntry]

I think the regular season will end up around 6-6. Low level bowl that we win and things will continue to look up. If we had more depth on our offensive and defensive line I think we'd be closer to 8-4.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

I think the regular season will end up around 6-6. Low level bowl that we win and things will continue to look up. If we had more depth on our offensive and defensive line I think we'd be closer to 8-4.

Would I be overly optimistic in assuming the influx of speed and talent alone (regardless of freshman status) might help us do better than 6-6? Just maybe. :whistling:

 

[oregonvol]

What I love about the "needs as much time as Spurrier at South Carolina" excuse is that it doesn't even work if you actually think about it for 5 minutes, but people keep clinging to their hazy vision of it because it's all they've got.

Of course, the example is popular here because it's a complete anomaly in this day and time. If you look around at coaches who are succeeding brilliantly at their universities in this day and age, pretty much every one of them had huge winning seasons in their first couple of years at their schools. Malzahn, Saban, Meyer, Franklin, Fisher, Sumlin, Kelly, etc..the list goes on and on.

So the excuse crew here likes to ignore all of them in favor of the example of Spurrier, simply because Spurrier had alot of mediocre years at South Carolina before having some better years. Spurrier was often cited during the Dooley years and now he has been repurposed for the Butch Jones era.

To use this example, we of course ignore the fact that the vast majority of coaches these days who start out with mediocre results end up with mediocre results as well and never turn anything around. Instead we simply assume that the guy we have is much more likely to be Steve Spurrier than he is to be that other 95% and this is a solid bet worth giving the guy 5 years to discover.

Much more fascinating though is that we discard the actual facts of what Spurrier did. We ignore that in all the years of mediocre results, he never had a losing season. We ignore that those 5 years of winning seasons and multiple bowl appearances that we view as mediocre, were actually the most successful continuous stretch of football in South Carolina's entire history.

We also conveniently ignore that for all the success Spurrier has enjoyed in the last 3 years, he's never won an actual championship of any kind and it doesn't look like he ever will.

So, the whole point of the Spurrier-South Carolina Excuse seems to be that if we can completely ignore UT's tradition and resources and lower our aspirations to expecting no more than to be on equal footing with a historic bottom feeder like South Carolina, AND if we pretend that our own coaches' losing seasons are essentially the same as their coaches' winning seasons AND if we're willing to wager 5 years of mediocrity on the idea that our guy will be another rare exception to what usually signifies a successful major college football coach in this day and age...then we can look forward to having a program that still won't win any championships. Sign me up!

 

[Boca Vol]

Would I be overly optimistic in assuming the influx of speed and talent alone (regardless of freshman status) might help us do better than 6-6? Just maybe. :whistling:

In what games? Vandy and Mizzou, I agree with you.

Bama, UGA, & UF...not so much. Those teams all had very good recruiting classes as well.

 

[davethevol]

The SEC East will be an open battle this year. Yes, it will be tough, but I think we win at least 4 conference games. We most likely don't do any worse than 6-6 this season.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

In what games? Vandy and Mizzou, I agree with you.

Bama, UGA, & UF...not so much. Those teams all had very good recruiting classes as well.

Here's my two cents: We can and SHOULD win USU, Arky State, Chatt, Vandy, UK.

Can we beat UF, GA, Mizzou, and Ole Miss? Yes. All of them. Will we? I think we win at least one. Probably UF or Mizzou due to home field advantage.

If we win over Bama or Oklahoma somehow, mind you SOMEHOW, please sign Butch for another 10 years.

 

[TGVol]

In what games? Vandy and Mizzou, I agree with you.

Bama, UGA, & UF...not so much. Those teams all had very good recruiting classes as well.

UGA lost their start starting QB and even though they had a good class we had even better - so we should be more then competitive - even last year we played them even and should have won the game. UF will be tough because it's hard to break those losing streaks - people tend to try to hard and actually perform worse because of it. But it's certainly a winnable game especially since we are playing at home (same as Mizzou). Vandy and Kentucky should not even be discussed - if we don't win both of those CBJ will be on hot seat - as should be the case with any UT football coach if they lose to those two.

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

The SEC East will be an open battle this year. Yes, it will be tough, but I think we win at least 4 conference games. We most likely don't do any worse than 6-6 this season.

We won't. Linemen do not make immediate impacts most of the time in the SEC. They need time to develop. I don't expect a winning season until next year.

 

[Boca Vol]

Here's my two cents: We can and SHOULD win USU, Arky State, Chatt, Vandy, UK.

Can we beat UF, GA, Mizzou, and Ole Miss? Yes. All of them. Will we? I think we win at least one. Probably UF or Mizzou due to home field advantage.

If we win over Bama or Oklahoma somehow, mind you SOMEHOW, please sign Butch for another 10 years.

Agree!

Although, don't put too much stock into UT's homefield "advantage." UT has been a gracious host this century.

UGA lost their start starting QB and even though they had a good class we had even better - so we should be more then competitive - even last year we played them even and should have won the game. UF will be tough because it's hard to break those losing streaks - people tend to try to hard and actually perform worse because of it. But it's certainly a winnable game especially since we are playing at home (same as Mizzou). Vandy and Kentucky should not even be discussed - if we don't win both of those CBJ will be on hot seat - as should be the case with any UT football coach if they lose to those two.

Is the QB UGA is going to play better than any QB UT has?

Also, saying UT's recruiting class is/was better than UGA's remains to be seen. It's all speculation at this point. On the road will make that a tough game.

UF is certainly winnable and I'd be really shocked and pissed if it is another double digit loss!

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

Agree!

Although, don't put too much stock into UT's homefield "advantage." UT has been a gracious host this century.



Is the QB UGA is going to play better than any QB UT has?

Also, saying UT's recruiting class is/was better than UGA's remains to be seen. It's all speculation at this point. On the road will make that a tough game.

UF is certainly winnable and I'd be really shocked and pissed if it is another double digit loss!

Hopefully the renewed spirit surrounding this program translates into decibels at the games. I know I'll be coming to games this season for the first time in years and I've got a lot of yelling and cheering to make up for.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

What I love about the "needs as much time as Spurrier at South Carolina" excuse is that it doesn't even work if you actually think about it for 5 minutes, but people keep clinging to their hazy vision of it because it's all they've got.

Of course, the example is popular here because it's a complete anomaly in this day and time. If you look around at coaches who are succeeding brilliantly at their universities in this day and age, pretty much every one of them had huge winning seasons in their first couple of years at their schools. Malzahn, Saban, Meyer, Franklin, Fisher, Sumlin, Kelly, etc..the list goes on and on.

So the excuse crew here likes to ignore all of them in favor of the example of Spurrier, simply because Spurrier had alot of mediocre years at South Carolina before having some better years. Spurrier was often cited during the Dooley years and now he has been repurposed for the Butch Jones era.

To use this example, we of course ignore the fact that the vast majority of coaches these days who start out with mediocre results end up with mediocre results as well and never turn anything around. Instead we simply assume that the guy we have is much more likely to be Steve Spurrier than he is to be that other 95% and this is a solid bet worth giving the guy 5 years to discover.

Much more fascinating though is that we discard the actual facts of what Spurrier did. We ignore that in all the years of mediocre results, he never had a losing season. We ignore that those 5 years of winning seasons and multiple bowl appearances that we view as mediocre, were actually the most successful continuous stretch of football in South Carolina's entire history.

We also conveniently ignore that for all the success Spurrier has enjoyed in the last 3 years, he's never won an actual championship of any kind and it doesn't look like he ever will.

So, the whole point of the Spurrier-South Carolina Excuse seems to be that if we can completely ignore UT's tradition and resources and lower our aspirations to expecting no more than to be on equal footing with a historic bottom feeder like South Carolina, AND if we pretend that our own coaches' losing seasons are essentially the same as their coaches' winning seasons AND if we're willing to wager 5 years of mediocrity on the idea that our guy will be another rare exception to what usually signifies a successful major college football coach in this day and age...then we can look forward to having a program that still won't win any

Link to all these percentages and other claims you're making above?

Most other coaches you cite, sat in a talent rich state. CBJ doesn't have that privilege though the talent in Tennessee high schools is improving. Those coaches you cite already had stocked, talented, ready to rumble teams. Spurrier being an example of an exception. Auburn is a perfect example. They had the talent, which oddly was in place because Gus had recruited those players before being canned. He just got re-hired, came back and coached them more effectively than the guy who preceded him. I'd wager if you took a hard look at those "instant" winner coaches you flap about, you'd find they too had the actual talent in place to win sooner than CBJ will.

Jones is the right man. He will get us there. Even folks outside UT and the SEC are saying the key will be the patience needed by the fanbase to give him time to get the job done. Hopefully, Hart has sense enough to not listen to the knee jerk fans and give Jones that time.

Jones has to literally take a mid level ACC or upper level Conference USA level team and make it into a SEC team. Even now, he's still has that level of talent to deal with in a number of positions. You need SEC level players and time to coach them to play like an SEC team. Fans who refuse to understand this and are dumb enough to want to push the UT into an ever deeper financial hole with another coaching staff buy out due to that dumbness, you'd deserve the outcome if successful. We'd just continue to be the laughingstock of the NCAA. Our foes should with great enthusiasm congratulate you for maintaining the ruined nature of our football program.